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We don't have one pitcher in the system with
Topic Started: May 9 2006, 09:16 PM (187 Views)
KOCUR

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Beckett's balls or cocksure attitude...He takes the mound and not only expects to win - but expects to Dominate....Our clits take the mound they hope to "survive"
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Strider
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KOCUR
May 9 2006, 09:16 PM
Beckett's balls or cocksure attitude...He takes the mound and not only expects to win - but expects to Dominate....Our clits take the mound they hope to "survive"

"I just wanna give the team a chance to win." - Randy Johnson

And the sh*t permeates throughout.
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Mattingly23
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Philip Hughes needs to be held onto at all costs. Hope he's the guy who can become the winner with an attitude. I have no idea about his mental makeup, but everyone seems to love his stuff.
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PavanosBalls
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This has nothing to do with the topic, but it incenses me again about the fact the Marlins didn't demand Papelbon in the Beckett trade. I don't care if Beckett flops, his value should have cost them Papelbon
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Mattingly23
May 9 2006, 09:18 PM
Philip Hughes needs to be held onto at all costs. Hope he's the guy who can become the winner with an attitude. I have no idea about his mental makeup, but everyone seems to love his stuff.

Agreed. :peace:
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Mattingly23
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Lets see how good this Hanley Ramirez character turns out to be before we properly judge that deal.
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PavanosBalls
May 9 2006, 09:21 PM
This has nothing to do with the topic, but it incenses me again about the fact the Marlins didn't demand Papelbon in the Beckett trade. I don't care if Beckett flops, his value should have cost them Papelbon

and make no mistake, Papelbon is AWESOME! :agent:
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Yanksfan03
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We haven't developed a real winner since Andy Pettitte. It's a little ridiculous considering the resources we have.
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PavanosBalls
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That Beckett trade is a case of value in my book. With the market for pitching, especially young pitcher, with guys like Santana and Sheets long-termed, Boston should have had to pay through their ass. And this Mike Lowell stuff, they handed them a suitable 3B. Boston wasn't being a charity case. He fit them
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Yanksfan03
May 9 2006, 09:24 PM
We haven't developed a real winner since Andy Pettitte. It's a little ridiculous considering the resources we have.

You also have to take in account that the Yankees haven't had top draft picks since they went on this run beginning in 1994.
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Yanksfan03
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Mattingly23
May 9 2006, 09:25 PM
Yanksfan03
May 9 2006, 09:24 PM
We haven't developed a real winner since Andy Pettitte.  It's a little ridiculous considering the resources we have.

You also have to take in account that the Yankees haven't had top draft picks since they went on this run beginning in 1994.

Yeah, but I still can't excuse them from not being able to develop pitchers. And the few young guys who have come through here who could've been something weren't held on to. Trading Claussen was the wrong move, whether he would have worked out or not, who knows, but we gave up too soon. Lilly wasn't from our farm system, but he's another guy who was sent packing in the wrong deal.

This is why I believe Hughes can't be moved.
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PavanosBalls
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I won't rip the Weaver deal, since it could have worked out huge, but Claussen for Boone should have never happened. If Claussen was to go, it should have been for an immediate need.
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Mattingly23
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Yanksfan03
May 9 2006, 09:27 PM
Mattingly23
May 9 2006, 09:25 PM
Yanksfan03
May 9 2006, 09:24 PM
We haven't developed a real winner since Andy Pettitte.  It's a little ridiculous considering the resources we have.

You also have to take in account that the Yankees haven't had top draft picks since they went on this run beginning in 1994.

Yeah, but I still can't excuse them from not being able to develop pitchers. And the few young guys who have come through here who could've been something weren't held on to. Trading Claussen was the wrong move, whether he would have worked out or not, who knows, but we gave up too soon. Lilly wasn't from our farm system, but he's another guy who was sent packing in the wrong deal.

This is why I believe Hughes can't be moved.

I didn't want to move Claussen, especially not for Boone. He quietly had a decent season last year. I think he has struggled again this year, but he was a lefty who was developing nicely, made a solid debut against the Mets, was labeled untouchable, and then was moved for an average player. It made no sense.

Lilly/Weaver had its positives and negatives. Weaver had more upside and it was good to see the Yankees thinking about future aces, but it didn't work out. I do agree there was no reason to trade Lilly at that point though.
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PavanosBalls
May 9 2006, 09:29 PM
I won't rip the Weaver deal, since it could have worked out huge, but Claussen for Boone should have never happened. If Claussen was to go, it should have been for an immediate need.

Well, I was a fan of Ted Lilly, I just didn't feel the numbers were all that different that he should've been dealt for Weaver and I just had a feeling it wouldn't work and sure enough it didn't, in fact it went worse than I imagined. And the Claussen deal will always be dumb, lucky home run by Boone or not.
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PavanosBalls
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Yanksfan03
May 9 2006, 08:32 PM
PavanosBalls
May 9 2006, 09:29 PM
I won't rip the Weaver deal, since it could have worked out huge, but Claussen for Boone should have never happened. If Claussen was to go, it should have been for an immediate need.

Well, I was a fan of Ted Lilly, I just didn't feel the numbers were all that different that he should've been dealt for Weaver and I just had a feeling it wouldn't work and sure enough it didn't, in fact it went worse than I imagined. And the Claussen deal will always be dumb, lucky home run by Boone or not.

I did overlook the John Ford Griffin, Jason Arnold additions that could have hurt, but Jeff Weaver was emerging into a potential ace prior to that deal. Lilly has great stuff though
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PavanosBalls
May 9 2006, 09:34 PM
Yanksfan03
May 9 2006, 08:32 PM
PavanosBalls
May 9 2006, 09:29 PM
I won't rip the Weaver deal, since it could have worked out huge, but Claussen for Boone should have never happened. If Claussen was to go, it should have been for an immediate need.

Well, I was a fan of Ted Lilly, I just didn't feel the numbers were all that different that he should've been dealt for Weaver and I just had a feeling it wouldn't work and sure enough it didn't, in fact it went worse than I imagined. And the Claussen deal will always be dumb, lucky home run by Boone or not.

I did overlook the John Ford Griffin, Jason Arnold additions that could have hurt, but Jeff Weaver was emerging into a potential ace prior to that deal. Lilly has great stuff though

I guess what my problem was, I liked Lilly's attitude, seemed suited to NY, he had good stuff, he was a little younger and most important, he was a lefty and pitching to a decent ERA (3.83). Meanwhile, Weaver was doing well, but he was also in Detroit, not exactly a tough market, and he always seemed like a headcase to me, and proved to be one when he got here. It didn't work out, and the fact I liked Lilly compounded my hate for that deal even more. I could see why they did it, but I still felt it was wrong then, and I'll never back off that stance.
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Mattingly23
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I agree, YF03 (rare moment). That was my thinking about the deal, not to mention the other players who went in it, both of whom I assumed would be better. I did think Weaver would be better here though.
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Yanksfan03
May 9 2006, 08:38 PM
PavanosBalls
May 9 2006, 09:34 PM
Yanksfan03
May 9 2006, 08:32 PM
PavanosBalls
May 9 2006, 09:29 PM
I won't rip the Weaver deal, since it could have worked out huge, but Claussen for Boone should have never happened. If Claussen was to go, it should have been for an immediate need.

Well, I was a fan of Ted Lilly, I just didn't feel the numbers were all that different that he should've been dealt for Weaver and I just had a feeling it wouldn't work and sure enough it didn't, in fact it went worse than I imagined. And the Claussen deal will always be dumb, lucky home run by Boone or not.

I did overlook the John Ford Griffin, Jason Arnold additions that could have hurt, but Jeff Weaver was emerging into a potential ace prior to that deal. Lilly has great stuff though

I guess what my problem was, I liked Lilly's attitude, seemed suited to NY, he had good stuff, he was a little younger and most important, he was a lefty and pitching to a decent ERA (3.83). Meanwhile, Weaver was doing well, but he was also in Detroit, not exactly a tough market, and he always seemed like a headcase to me, and proved to be one when he got here. It didn't work out, and the fact I liked Lilly compounded my hate for that deal even more. I could see why they did it, but I still felt it was wrong then, and I'll never back off that stance.

Well, I thought less of Lilly than a lot of people. I saw him at a sellout game and he was jittery, bouncing warmups. I never thought over a full year, he'd be reliable, despite loving his stuff. Honestly, when he's on, he reminds me of Zito. With that said, the upside of Jeff Weaver was tremendous and worth it. He was supposed to be this generation's Kevin Brown. Ridiculous sink action, good control, developing off-speed, plus slider that turned into a volleyball and hasn't stopped since. But it was all there for him to turn into an ace.
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Yanksfan03
May 9 2006, 08:24 PM
We haven't developed a real winner since Andy Pettitte. It's a little ridiculous considering the resources we have.

All the money we're spending on payroll has caused us to become cheap with prospects. Its been well documented. Cashman has been concentrating on reducing payroll and drafting/signing more expensive youngsters with signability issues ala Tabata, Nunez, Austin Jackson and CJ Henry.
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Yanksfan03
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May 9 2006, 10:00 PM
Yanksfan03
May 9 2006, 08:24 PM
We haven't developed a real winner since Andy Pettitte.  It's a little ridiculous considering the resources we have.

All the money we're spending on payroll has caused us to become cheap with prospects. Its been well documented. Cashman has been concentrating on reducing payroll and drafting/signing more expensive youngsters with signability issues ala Tabata, Nunez, Austin Jackson and CJ Henry.

I hope some of these moves pan out. I like seeing guys come up through the organization to do well. It's easier as a fan to connect with them, and they have a sense of what the organization is about and I think they'd have some more respect for what the Yankees stand for than somebody like say A-Rod or Sheffield. I hope we have something good in Hughes and Cox also.
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Mattingly23
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Yanksfan03
May 9 2006, 10:14 PM

I hope some of these moves pan out. I like seeing guys come up through the organization to do well. It's easier as a fan to connect with them, and they have a sense of what the organization is about and I think they'd have some more respect for what the Yankees stand for than somebody like say A-Rod or Sheffield. I hope we have something good in Hughes and Cox also.

I'll remind you of this when the next young guy gets a shot and you want to give up on them after 3 games. Cano comes to mind.
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HomieYank
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Yanksfan03
May 9 2006, 09:14 PM
HomieYank
May 9 2006, 10:00 PM
Yanksfan03
May 9 2006, 08:24 PM
We haven't developed a real winner since Andy Pettitte.  It's a little ridiculous considering the resources we have.

All the money we're spending on payroll has caused us to become cheap with prospects. Its been well documented. Cashman has been concentrating on reducing payroll and drafting/signing more expensive youngsters with signability issues ala Tabata, Nunez, Austin Jackson and CJ Henry.

I hope some of these moves pan out. I like seeing guys come up through the organization to do well. It's easier as a fan to connect with them, and they have a sense of what the organization is about and I think they'd have some more respect for what the Yankees stand for than somebody like say A-Rod or Sheffield. I hope we have something good in Hughes and Cox also.

Outfield wise we have 4 guys in Melky, Tabata, Gardner, and Action Jackson that have really been tearing it up this year. Tabata is a doubles machine hitting .360something, Gardner is hitting in the .380s with a .500 OBP and like 13 steals, and Jackson has been around .310 all year with doubles and steals.

Pitching wise...I didn't give the guy much credit last year, but TJ Beam has been lights out again. Smith looks like he'll be decent and I love Cox's slider.

Basically there are finally things to be optimistic about in our system.
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Yanksfan03
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Mattingly23
May 9 2006, 10:19 PM
Yanksfan03
May 9 2006, 10:14 PM

I hope some of these moves pan out.  I like seeing guys come up through the organization to do well.  It's easier as a fan to connect with them, and they have a sense of what the organization is about and I think they'd have some more respect for what the Yankees stand for than somebody like say A-Rod or Sheffield.  I hope we have something good in Hughes and Cox also.

I'll remind you of this when the next young guy gets a shot and you want to give up on them after 3 games. Cano comes to mind.

Well, I've gotten on Cano, but I've also been one of his biggest supporters. Some people want him moved for Zito. I don't want him moved period. Sometimes I let my emotions get the best of me when I post and go in to fits of rage when I'm at home. I've admitted that.
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PavanosBalls
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I love Cano, but I don't see how a complaint could be made if they moved him for Zito.
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May 9 2006, 10:20 PM
Yanksfan03
May 9 2006, 09:14 PM
HomieYank
May 9 2006, 10:00 PM
Yanksfan03
May 9 2006, 08:24 PM
We haven't developed a real winner since Andy Pettitte.  It's a little ridiculous considering the resources we have.

All the money we're spending on payroll has caused us to become cheap with prospects. Its been well documented. Cashman has been concentrating on reducing payroll and drafting/signing more expensive youngsters with signability issues ala Tabata, Nunez, Austin Jackson and CJ Henry.

I hope some of these moves pan out. I like seeing guys come up through the organization to do well. It's easier as a fan to connect with them, and they have a sense of what the organization is about and I think they'd have some more respect for what the Yankees stand for than somebody like say A-Rod or Sheffield. I hope we have something good in Hughes and Cox also.

Outfield wise we have 4 guys in Melky, Tabata, Gardner, and Action Jackson that have really been tearing it up this year. Tabata is a doubles machine hitting .360something, Gardner is hitting in the .380s with a .500 OBP and like 13 steals, and Jackson has been around .310 all year with doubles and steals.

Pitching wise...I didn't give the guy much credit last year, but TJ Beam has been lights out again. Smith looks like he'll be decent and I love Cox's slider.

Basically there are finally things to be optimistic about in our system.

Well, all I know is the guy I keep hearing about Hughes and I think he's the key. It'd be nice for somebody like Cox to maybe develop in to Mo's successor, but we need good starters, specifically an ace. If Hughes could be that guy, that'd be huge.
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Yanksfan03
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PavanosBalls
May 9 2006, 10:23 PM
I love Cano, but I don't see how a complaint could be made if they moved him for Zito.

To me I'd rather sign him as an FA. He's a guy who could tank but he could also be an ace. If I felt he was a sure thing, I'd say make the trade, but he's not. And if we did trade Cano for him, and he does tank, and then leaves, now you've lost a very good 2B for NOTHING.
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PavanosBalls
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How about Sabathia?

You'd obviously need a negotiation window if you'd deal a chip like that. At this point, he won't go, but I'm just making convo
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Yanksfan03
May 9 2006, 09:23 PM
HomieYank
May 9 2006, 10:20 PM
Yanksfan03
May 9 2006, 09:14 PM
HomieYank
May 9 2006, 10:00 PM
Yanksfan03
May 9 2006, 08:24 PM
We haven't developed a real winner since Andy Pettitte.  It's a little ridiculous considering the resources we have.

All the money we're spending on payroll has caused us to become cheap with prospects. Its been well documented. Cashman has been concentrating on reducing payroll and drafting/signing more expensive youngsters with signability issues ala Tabata, Nunez, Austin Jackson and CJ Henry.

I hope some of these moves pan out. I like seeing guys come up through the organization to do well. It's easier as a fan to connect with them, and they have a sense of what the organization is about and I think they'd have some more respect for what the Yankees stand for than somebody like say A-Rod or Sheffield. I hope we have something good in Hughes and Cox also.

Outfield wise we have 4 guys in Melky, Tabata, Gardner, and Action Jackson that have really been tearing it up this year. Tabata is a doubles machine hitting .360something, Gardner is hitting in the .380s with a .500 OBP and like 13 steals, and Jackson has been around .310 all year with doubles and steals.

Pitching wise...I didn't give the guy much credit last year, but TJ Beam has been lights out again. Smith looks like he'll be decent and I love Cox's slider.

Basically there are finally things to be optimistic about in our system.

Well, all I know is the guy I keep hearing about Hughes and I think he's the key. It'd be nice for somebody like Cox to maybe develop in to Mo's successor, but we need good starters, specifically an ace. If Hughes could be that guy, that'd be huge.

I see Cox as more of a set-up guy. I think our next closer is either a starter in our system or on another team right now.
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Yanksfan03
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May 9 2006, 10:26 PM
Yanksfan03
May 9 2006, 09:23 PM
HomieYank
May 9 2006, 10:20 PM
Yanksfan03
May 9 2006, 09:14 PM
HomieYank
May 9 2006, 10:00 PM
Yanksfan03
May 9 2006, 08:24 PM
We haven't developed a real winner since Andy Pettitte.  It's a little ridiculous considering the resources we have.

All the money we're spending on payroll has caused us to become cheap with prospects. Its been well documented. Cashman has been concentrating on reducing payroll and drafting/signing more expensive youngsters with signability issues ala Tabata, Nunez, Austin Jackson and CJ Henry.

I hope some of these moves pan out. I like seeing guys come up through the organization to do well. It's easier as a fan to connect with them, and they have a sense of what the organization is about and I think they'd have some more respect for what the Yankees stand for than somebody like say A-Rod or Sheffield. I hope we have something good in Hughes and Cox also.

Outfield wise we have 4 guys in Melky, Tabata, Gardner, and Action Jackson that have really been tearing it up this year. Tabata is a doubles machine hitting .360something, Gardner is hitting in the .380s with a .500 OBP and like 13 steals, and Jackson has been around .310 all year with doubles and steals.

Pitching wise...I didn't give the guy much credit last year, but TJ Beam has been lights out again. Smith looks like he'll be decent and I love Cox's slider.

Basically there are finally things to be optimistic about in our system.

Well, all I know is the guy I keep hearing about Hughes and I think he's the key. It'd be nice for somebody like Cox to maybe develop in to Mo's successor, but we need good starters, specifically an ace. If Hughes could be that guy, that'd be huge.

I see Cox as more of a set-up guy. I think our next closer is either a starter in our system or on another team right now.

I could see us going outside the organization, and whoever the next closer is, I don't envy him at all.
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Yanksfan03
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PavanosBalls
May 9 2006, 10:26 PM
How about Sabathia?

Cano for Sabathia? No way, look at him same I do Zito.

That said, I do put a major emphasis on good starting pitching and I guess sometimes to get a great reward you need to take a risk, so while I may not jump on the bandwagon for the trade, I couldn't totally dismiss it as crap either before seeing how it works.
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