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Plaxico; LT
Topic Started: Sep 11 2005, 07:51 PM (146 Views)
Strider
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Good game by Burress. Eli f*cked up on that TD throw to him (it shouldn't have been a sideliner) and he made a nice play. I'll give him his props. However, I'd trade him this second for Coles if I could.
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Njdevils350
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He should have a good game though, he had half a foot on Macklin. You need to expect that with that kinda matchup. Only reason he didnt have Fitzgerald-like numbers was he had a couple drops and I think a ocuple got skipped too him
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LawrenceTaylorisGod56

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Sep 11 2005, 06:51 PM
Good game by Burress. Eli f*cked up on that TD throw to him (it shouldn't have been a sideliner) and he made a nice play. I'll give him his props. However, I'd trade him this second for Coles if I could.

the debate over whos better is over for, but if Coles was pathetic with that pass, just horrible. I think some of the guys on the jets board are saying he made mulitple mistakes
Burress had a very good game. Hes the man
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Mattingly23
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I think Plaxico will satisfy those who questioned his signing, as long as he stays healthy for the most part.
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Strider
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I didn't question the signing. He was the best we could do and if we hadn't gotten him, its either Jabar Gaffney or counting on Tim Carter to start. My only thing is that he isn't the ideal. He doesn't give this offense exactly what it needs or compliment the parts we already have. And because of that, I don't have great expectations and I'm not gonna overrate him. That lead to me and LT getting into Coles (who I think would fit this team better) vs. Burress.

But if he can stay healthy and Manning doesn't suck, I can see: 70 catches/1,100 yards/8-10 TDs.
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MastaR316
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Strider
Sep 12 2005, 02:10 PM
I didn't question the signing. He was the best we could do and if we hadn't gotten him, its either Jabar Gaffney or counting on Tim Carter to start. My only thing is that he isn't the ideal. He doesn't give this offense exactly what it needs or compliment the parts we already have. And because of that, I don't have great expectations and I'm not gonna overrate him. That lead to me and LT getting into Coles (who I think would fit this team better) vs. Burress.

But if he can stay healthy and Manning doesn't suck, I can see: 70 catches/1,100 yards/8-10 TDs.

Don't underrate Plaxico, strizzle. He isn't better than Coles(At one point was), but the guy can be a gamebreaker if his head is on straight. The guy has a lot of talent and like i've said in other topics, the guy has a great verticle.
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Mattingly23
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Sep 12 2005, 03:10 PM

But if he can stay healthy and Manning doesn't suck, I can see: 70 catches/1,100 yards/8-10 TDs.

I am completely fine with that production, which is entirely possible on an annual basis if he stays on the field and Manning improves.
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Strider
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Don't underrate Plaxico, strizzle. He isn't better than Coles(At one point was), but the guy can be a gamebreaker if his head is on straight. The guy has a lot of talent and like i've said in other topics, the guy has a great verticle.


He certainly has talent. He's 6'6", has downfield speed, and I've seen him make some great catches. However, his stregnths aren't in the areas where the Giants lack. He's a taller and more talented version of Amani Toomer. But really, they bring the same attributes to the table and so does Tyree. They need a "gamebreaker". I'd define that as someone who is capable of turning a 5-yard hitch into a 65 yard TD. He's a "playmaker". He can make the play downfield, but he's not gonna get YAC. Also, you'll rarely see a receiver like that wide open on short or intermediate patterns (except for when Rolle fell down in the endzone) because he doesn't have the quickness and route running to get separation early. The QB is gonna have to throw it up in or around traffic and hope he comes down with it. A guy like Coles, he doesn't have the height advantage over corners (although the boy can jump), but he's quick as hell and has great footwork on routes. He'll get open for his QB on an in route and catch an easy 10 yard pass to pick up the first down. I think a guy like that helps his QB more. Stuff doesn't have to be forced and after the catch, he's more likely to move with it. I made the baseball comparison before. Burress is like the guy who hits .250 with 40 homeruns and Coles hits .330 with 20 homeruns (before you can ask Mas, Coles has a higher OBP too). I think the high average guy is contributing more often and helping to make things happen for his offense. And being able to get separation short, that's especially good for a young QB. On a team like the Steelers where they've got that short man (Hines Ward), he fits in sweet. Here, he doesn't really fill a void.

And Plax has been known to drop passes and he doesn't have the best reputation. While Coles and Chad are tight, I could see Burress having a 2 week stretch with 4 receptiosn then going off on Eli.
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Mattingly23
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Toomer will be gone within a year or two and hopefully they could find that game breaker to compliment Burress in the meantime or as Toomer is leaving/retiring. I'm looking at this as a 3 year plan to become a serious contender under Coughlin. You had last year where the only big moves were the two linebackers and Robbins, as well as drafting Manning, cutting Collins, and signing Warner as a stopgap. We got to see the potential of Osi and Gibril. That was followed by what I think was a very good offseason between the signings of Pierce, Plax, Feely, Morton, and McKenzie, as well as picking up Jacobs and Webster in the draft. I'd love to see 9-7 this year, then another solid offseason that propels the Giants into serious title contenders in 2006.
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Strider
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Mattingly23
Sep 12 2005, 03:31 PM
Toomer will be gone within a year or two and hopefully they could find that game breaker to compliment Burress in the meantime or as Toomer is leaving/retiring. I'm looking at this as a 3 year plan to become a serious contender under Coughlin. You had last year where the only big moves were the two linebackers and Robbins, as well as drafting Manning, cutting Collins, and signing Warner as a stopgap. We got to see the potential of Osi and Gibril. That was followed by what I think was a very good offseason between the signings of Pierce, Plax, Feely, Morton, and McKenzie, as well as picking up Jacobs and Webster in the draft. I'd love to see 9-7 this year, then another solid offseason that propels the Giants into serious title contenders in 2006.

Good point on Toomer (I don't think he'll retire but hopefully the signing bonus isn't that bad) and I agree with the rest. I expect 8-8 this year and I'll be satisfied with 7-9. A lot of pieces are in place and they're headed in the right direction, but the big question mark is Manning. I'm not completely sold on him and if he doesn't turn out to be the goods, that just f*cks the whole thing up. Teams aren't even letting good QBs hit the FA market anymore and $100M contracts are being doled out.

Doug, if we finish 8-8, who are the receivers that would be in our range in the draft?
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Mattingly23
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I said before the season 7-9 to 9-7. Basically I would be relatively satisfied with 8-8, happy with 9-7, but my expectations sometimes change during a season. For example, at 5-4 last year, that last loss which happened with me in the stands at Sun Devil Stadium, my focus changed to this season, wanting Manning in there to work through the inevitable struggles, not struggling to try to make the playoff with Warner. I expect Manning to make strides this year, but really blossom next season. If that doesn't happen, as you said, the Giants are in trouble. I don't want another Dave Brown/Kent Graham/Tommy Maddox/Danny Kannel merry-go-round situation. I'm banking on Manning being the franchise QB for 10-13 years. I don't remember Amani's deal being too prohibitive in terms of large bonus. Does anyone have the figures handy?

On edit, I found it because the company doesn't think to block some sports sites:

Quote:
 
Toomer given five-year contract extension  

NFL.com wire reports 

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. (March 31, 2004) -- Amani Toomer was given a five-year, $20 million contract that will keep the receiver with the New York Giants through the 2008 season.

Toomer had three years left on his existing contract. He was to have earned $3.9 million this season in base salary, and would have counted $6.64 million toward the 2004 salary cap.

The new deal lowers his salary cap number for this season, but the team said the real savings will come in later years.

Toomer, the team's leading receiver last year, had 63 catches and five touchdowns in 16 games, averaging 66.1 yards a game.



AP NEWS
The Associated Press News Service


It doesn't mention his bonus, but does allude to it being cap friendly in the later years.
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rsj23terp

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Sep 11 2005, 07:51 PM
Good game by Burress. Eli f*cked up on that TD throw to him (it shouldn't have been a sideliner) and he made a nice play. I'll give him his props. However, I'd trade him this second for Coles if I could.

Coles had 3 brutal drops by my count. I wasn't in favor of signing Plax, but i'd take him over Coles anyday of the week.
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Njdevils350
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Doug, if we finish 8-8, who are the receivers that would be in our range in the draft?


Martin Nance, Miami (OH)
Jason Avant, Michigan
Santonio Holmes, Ohio State
Demetrius Williams, Oregon

All of them have really good speed and Williams has questionable hands and hasnt played on a good team. Holmes might stay in school and Avant should be propelled into the top 20 by the end of the year.

Nance should go 1st bc/ he has all the basic tools to be a Burress type. Size, speed, hands...as long as hes healed from a leg break.

To get a WR in the top 22 we're gonna need to catch a break with either Holmes entering the draft (I think he'll stay) or a guy like Derek Hagan jumping up.
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Strider
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rsj23terp
Sep 12 2005, 04:33 PM
Strider
Sep 11 2005, 07:51 PM
Good game by Burress. Eli f*cked up on that TD throw to him (it shouldn't have been a sideliner) and he made a nice play. I'll give him his props. However, I'd trade him this second for Coles if I could.

Coles had 3 brutal drops by my count. I wasn't in favor of signing Plax, but i'd take him over Coles anyday of the week.

Coles went 1 for 4 and popped up a couple 3-1 pitches. But there's plenty of season left. All factors equal, I think he's the better receiver and would be the better fit for this team.
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LawrenceTaylorisGod56

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rsj23terp
Sep 12 2005, 03:33 PM
Strider
Sep 11 2005, 07:51 PM
Good game by Burress. Eli f*cked up on that TD throw to him (it shouldn't have been a sideliner) and he made a nice play. I'll give him his props. However, I'd trade him this second for Coles if I could.

Coles had 3 brutal drops by my count. I wasn't in favor of signing Plax, but i'd take him over Coles anyday of the week.

well i obviously agree with u. like someone said before at one point Plaxico was better than coles, his best season was by far better than coles best season
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Strider
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By far?
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rsj23terp

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Sep 12 2005, 07:00 PM
rsj23terp
Sep 12 2005, 04:33 PM
Strider
Sep 11 2005, 07:51 PM
Good game by Burress. Eli f*cked up on that TD throw to him (it shouldn't have been a sideliner) and he made a nice play. I'll give him his props. However, I'd trade him this second for Coles if I could.

Coles had 3 brutal drops by my count. I wasn't in favor of signing Plax, but i'd take him over Coles anyday of the week.

Coles went 1 for 4 and popped up a couple 3-1 pitches. But there's plenty of season left. All factors equal, I think he's the better receiver and would be the better fit for this team.

He dropped TWO sure TD's, one of which he was wide open and hit directly on the hands.

That's more like 1-5 with 3 K's, one of which was with the bases loaded, and commiting an error that scores 2 runs.
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Strider
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He did have 5 or 6 receptions. Its not as if he didn't do anything. And you have to reserve errors for defensive players. The Jets run defense made 2 errors in the top of the 1st. But striking out with the bases loaded is a good one.
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LawrenceTaylorisGod56

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Sep 12 2005, 08:03 PM
By far?

significantly better
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Strider
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Coles' best season (which got off to a slow start because of Testaverde and the fact that Chrebet was his favorite) was 89 cathes/1,264 yards/5 TDs/67 first downs. Burress' best season was 78 catches/1,325 yards/7 TDs/64 first downs. That's not "by far" better and you have to factor in the circumstances. We could go second best season vs. second best, but I won't. I'll even give you the stats advantage (although Coles has more receptions and yards in his career). I just think that Coles is capable of doing more for a team. Clone their teams and put them in the same situations, I think Coles does better.
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LawrenceTaylorisGod56

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Sep 12 2005, 08:40 PM
Coles' best season (which got off to a slow start because of Testaverde and the fact that Chrebet was his favorite) was 89 cathes/1,264 yards/5 TDs/67 first downs. Burress' best season was 78 catches/1,325 yards/7 TDs/64 first downs. That's not "by far" better and you have to factor in the circumstances. We could go second best season vs. second best, but I won't. I'll even give you the stats advantage (although Coles has more receptions and yards in his career). I just think that Coles is capable of doing more for a team. Clone their teams and put them in the same situations, I think Coles does better.

Coles has played more games and he has more yards. Coles has always been the undisputed #1 on his teams, Burress had to share the spotlight with Ward on a run first team.
I decided to withdraw byfar, but his best year was significantly better
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Strider
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Coles has always been the undisputed #1 on his teams


Only in the second half of 2002. As recently as '01, he was the slot receiver.
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LawrenceTaylorisGod56

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Sep 12 2005, 08:46 PM
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Coles has always been the undisputed #1 on his teams


Only in the second half of 2002. As recently as '01, he was the slot receiver.

still hes never had a guy as talented as he was at WR on the roster, Burress did
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Strider
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I'd like to say "We'll see" but I can't since neither WR is in a good situation. Coles has Pennington's bitch arm and everyone is learning a new offense and the coordinator is getting used to his new personell (with a QB that has NOTHING in common with McNair) and I don't think the Jets o-line is good - don't like the tackles. Burress has a QB who has made just 8 starts.

But what I will say is that if they both stay healthy and the key parts of their offense do too, Coles will have more catches and first downs. Guarantee that.
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PavanosBalls
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hey strider, howd plaxico look during the game?
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Strider
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canobaseball
Sep 12 2005, 09:55 PM
hey strider, howd plaxico look during the game?

Had his moments. He made a great diving catch while keeping his feet inbounds in the endzone on the TD. Should've had another TD but Eli underthrew him (shocking) and it resulted in just a deep completion. But he also dropped a short pass that hit him right in the chest and another that you can't call a "should've", but he could have caught it.

If I was giving him a grade out of 100 for the game, he'd get an 85.
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VICTORious
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i agree with strider.

Firstly you cant compare the two because they are totally different, on some teams i would rather have plex on others coles. We needed a tough guy not afraid to go over the middle, a guy with speed, good routes and potentiol for YAC yards. Plaxico's main purpose is jump balls and go routes.
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LawrenceTaylorisGod56

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Sep 12 2005, 08:54 PM
I'd like to say "We'll see" but I can't since neither WR is in a good situation. Coles has Pennington's bitch arm and everyone is learning a new offense and the coordinator is getting used to his new personell (with a QB that has NOTHING in common with McNair) and I don't think the Jets o-line is good - don't like the tackles. Burress has a QB who has made just 8 starts.

But what I will say is that if they both stay healthy and the key parts of their offense do too, Coles will have more catches and first downs. Guarantee that.

he may have more catches, but i think Burress at his best would have more yards.

He played good this weekend, not great, but had a solid game. Eli didnt play well enough for it to be a great game
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