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Muets Interested in Kent
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Topic Started: Jul 24 2005, 08:34 PM (311 Views)
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FloydNbunch
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Jul 25 2005, 11:03 AM
Post #31
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Does WrightNbunch sound good?
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- timotime
- Jul 25 2005, 08:02 AM
Make the deal. The Mets need a cleanup hitter.
I'd much prefer Soriano, but if a deal can't be made there kent would be fine.
Soriano is another version of Reyes with more power. The last thing this team needs is a high K guy who never walks
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timotime
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Jul 25 2005, 11:38 AM
Post #32
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- FloydNbunch
- Jul 25 2005, 11:03 AM
- timotime
- Jul 25 2005, 08:02 AM
Make the deal. The Mets need a cleanup hitter.
I'd much prefer Soriano, but if a deal can't be made there kent would be fine.
Soriano is another version of Reyes with more power. The last thing this team needs is a high K guy who never walks
Give me a break. I think Soriano's unpopularity with mets fans has to do with his success with the Yankees. Soriano is a legit star.
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FloydNbunch
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Jul 25 2005, 11:46 AM
Post #33
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Does WrightNbunch sound good?
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- timotime
- Jul 25 2005, 10:38 AM
- FloydNbunch
- Jul 25 2005, 11:03 AM
- timotime
- Jul 25 2005, 08:02 AM
Make the deal. The Mets need a cleanup hitter.
I'd much prefer Soriano, but if a deal can't be made there kent would be fine.
Soriano is another version of Reyes with more power. The last thing this team needs is a high K guy who never walks
Give me a break. I think Soriano's unpopularity with mets fans has to do with his success with the Yankees. Soriano is a legit star.
He is a star in a hitters park. He would come to Shea, bat .260 with a .290 OBP... Who does that sounds like? On top of all that, Soriano is older than he claims, which means he is on a downward side of his career
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timotime
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Jul 25 2005, 11:59 AM
Post #34
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On top of all that, Soriano is older than he claims, which means he is on a downward side of his career
:laugh:
Your opinion of his age, which isn't based on anything other than pure speculation, hardly qualifies as a legitimate argument against him. It simply furthers my claim that a lot of Mets fans are unreasonably biased against Soriano.
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rsj23terp
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Jul 25 2005, 12:13 PM
Post #35
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I don't think of Kent as a HOF'er. He's got impressive stats, but so do a lot of people, and not many second basemen make it to the Hall.
Its the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Stats. He's adequate defensively, and a good hitter, but he put up his numbers during the offensive explosion of the late 90's/early 2000's. Every HR hit during this era needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
I like to think of the HOF as more of a "gut" feeling than a thorough examination of a player's stats. Ryne Sandberg feels like a HOF'er, not only because he was the best second baseman of his era, but because he was the face of a historic franchise for over a decade. That counts in my opinion as much as anything.
However, Sandberg won an MVP, 9 gold gloves, was an all-star 10 times, and played over 150 games for his first 10 full years. Kent also won an MVP, but has played 150 games only three times, has zero gold gloves, and has been an All-Star only 4 times.
And while we're talking, Sandberg never had Barry Bonds hitting behind him.
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timotime
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Jul 25 2005, 12:57 PM
Post #36
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- rsj23terp
- Jul 25 2005, 12:13 PM
I don't think of Kent as a HOF'er. He's got impressive stats, but so do a lot of people, and not many second basemen make it to the Hall.
Its the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Stats. He's adequate defensively, and a good hitter, but he put up his numbers during the offensive explosion of the late 90's/early 2000's. Every HR hit during this era needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
I like to think of the HOF as more of a "gut" feeling than a thorough examination of a player's stats. Ryne Sandberg feels like a HOF'er, not only because he was the best second baseman of his era, but because he was the face of a historic franchise for over a decade. That counts in my opinion as much as anything.
However, Sandberg won an MVP, 9 gold gloves, was an all-star 10 times, and played over 150 games for his first 10 full years. Kent also won an MVP, but has played 150 games only three times, has zero gold gloves, and has been an All-Star only 4 times.
And while we're talking, Sandberg never had Barry Bonds hitting behind him.
I agree 100%. It isn't the Hall of Really Impressive Numbers. It's a Hall of Baseball Immortality. Kent's numbers look great from a historical perspective, but when you compare them to the other hitters of his era, he isn't even top 10 (Bonds, Sosa, Palmeiro, Griffey, McGwire, Piazza, Bagwell, Ramirez, A-Rod, Thome, Sheffield, Thomas are light years ahead of him).
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Mattingly23
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Jul 25 2005, 01:05 PM
Post #37
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- timotime
- Jul 25 2005, 11:59 AM
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On top of all that, Soriano is older than he claims, which means he is on a downward side of his career :laugh: Your opinion of his age, which isn't based on anything other than pure speculation, hardly qualifies as a legitimate argument against him. It simply furthers my claim that a lot of Mets fans are unreasonably biased against Soriano.
Floyd,
Silliness. Soriano already got caught lying about his age. Customs caught him. He's 29, whereas he said he was 27. This happened as a Yankee, but they didn't immediately announce it. They disclosed it to Texas in the negotiations and then it became public.
He also hit 39 and 38 HRs in Yankee Stadium as a righty batter. His HRs go out everywhere, not just the stadium formerly known as the Ballpark in Arlington.
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rsj23terp
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Jul 25 2005, 01:08 PM
Post #38
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Oh, Matty, you're here. You wanna have our Kent HOF argument publically here?
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Mattingly23
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Jul 25 2005, 01:11 PM
Post #39
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- rsj23terp
- Jul 25 2005, 01:08 PM
Oh, Matty, you're here. You wanna have our Kent HOF argument publically here?
Not really, don't have much time during lunch, but I basically agree with all of your points. My standards are high for the HOF too, but I just think because of the position he plays, he is nearing "lock status." It doesn't mean I necessarily agree with it, but he's getting in. Hell, I don't even think of Palmeiro as a no doubt HOF'er, but he's a lock on two angles now, almost 600 HRs and over 3000 hits.
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rsj23terp
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Jul 25 2005, 01:26 PM
Post #40
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- Mattingly23
- Jul 25 2005, 01:11 PM
- rsj23terp
- Jul 25 2005, 01:08 PM
Oh, Matty, you're here. You wanna have our Kent HOF argument publically here?
Not really, don't have much time during lunch, but I basically agree with all of your points. My standards are high for the HOF too, but I just think because of the position he plays, he is nearing "lock status." It doesn't mean I necessarily agree with it, but he's getting in. Hell, I don't even think of Palmeiro as a no doubt HOF'er, but he's a lock on two angles now, almost 600 HRs and over 3000 hits.
Palmeiro is a joke. He's accomplished a lot of things, but he instantly becomes the worst player ever to be a HOF'er when he's inducted (and he will be.)
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timotime
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Jul 25 2005, 01:53 PM
Post #41
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- rsj23terp
- Jul 25 2005, 01:26 PM
- Mattingly23
- Jul 25 2005, 01:11 PM
- rsj23terp
- Jul 25 2005, 01:08 PM
Oh, Matty, you're here. You wanna have our Kent HOF argument publically here?
Not really, don't have much time during lunch, but I basically agree with all of your points. My standards are high for the HOF too, but I just think because of the position he plays, he is nearing "lock status." It doesn't mean I necessarily agree with it, but he's getting in. Hell, I don't even think of Palmeiro as a no doubt HOF'er, but he's a lock on two angles now, almost 600 HRs and over 3000 hits.
Palmeiro is a joke. He's accomplished a lot of things, but he instantly becomes the worst player ever to be a HOF'er when he's inducted (and he will be.)
Ehhh...Tony Perez?
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FloydNbunch
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Jul 25 2005, 02:07 PM
Post #42
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Does WrightNbunch sound good?
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- timotime
- Jul 25 2005, 10:59 AM
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On top of all that, Soriano is older than he claims, which means he is on a downward side of his career :laugh: Your opinion of his age, which isn't based on anything other than pure speculation, hardly qualifies as a legitimate argument against him. It simply furthers my claim that a lot of Mets fans are unreasonably biased against Soriano.
The guy is probably around 33 old players breakdown!
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timotime
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Jul 25 2005, 02:09 PM
Post #43
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- FloydNbunch
- Jul 25 2005, 02:07 PM
- timotime
- Jul 25 2005, 10:59 AM
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On top of all that, Soriano is older than he claims, which means he is on a downward side of his career :laugh: Your opinion of his age, which isn't based on anything other than pure speculation, hardly qualifies as a legitimate argument against him. It simply furthers my claim that a lot of Mets fans are unreasonably biased against Soriano.
The guy is probably around 33 old players breakdown!
He is not 33.
He has been proven to be 29 years old.
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rsj23terp
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Jul 25 2005, 02:11 PM
Post #44
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- timotime
- Jul 25 2005, 01:53 PM
- rsj23terp
- Jul 25 2005, 01:26 PM
- Mattingly23
- Jul 25 2005, 01:11 PM
- rsj23terp
- Jul 25 2005, 01:08 PM
Oh, Matty, you're here. You wanna have our Kent HOF argument publically here?
Not really, don't have much time during lunch, but I basically agree with all of your points. My standards are high for the HOF too, but I just think because of the position he plays, he is nearing "lock status." It doesn't mean I necessarily agree with it, but he's getting in. Hell, I don't even think of Palmeiro as a no doubt HOF'er, but he's a lock on two angles now, almost 600 HRs and over 3000 hits.
Palmeiro is a joke. He's accomplished a lot of things, but he instantly becomes the worst player ever to be a HOF'er when he's inducted (and he will be.)
Ehhh...Tony Perez?
Integral part of two World Series championship teams and one of the best teams of the mid-70's.
If you wanna be a stats geek, i'd put his 379 HR in a pitching era up against Raffy's 600+ in the offensive boom of the 90's.
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Njdevils350
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Jul 25 2005, 02:17 PM
Post #45
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Obey My Dog
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- FloydNbunch
- Jul 25 2005, 01:07 PM
- timotime
- Jul 25 2005, 10:59 AM
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On top of all that, Soriano is older than he claims, which means he is on a downward side of his career :laugh: Your opinion of his age, which isn't based on anything other than pure speculation, hardly qualifies as a legitimate argument against him. It simply furthers my claim that a lot of Mets fans are unreasonably biased against Soriano.
The guy is probably around 33 old players breakdown!
OK Rain Man
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VICTORious
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Jul 25 2005, 02:41 PM
Post #46
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i also think kent can be convinced to play 1st
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Ray
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Jul 25 2005, 03:11 PM
Post #47
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Army Strong
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- Mr. Sunshine
- Jul 25 2005, 02:41 PM
i also think kent can be convinced to play 1st
Good for him. I'm sick of getting people and then moving them to a position where we need someone.
We need to go out and get a player that actually plays the position we're looking to fill.
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timotime
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Jul 25 2005, 03:24 PM
Post #48
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- Metsfan4life
- Jul 25 2005, 03:11 PM
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- Jul 25 2005, 02:41 PM
i also think kent can be convinced to play 1st
Good for him. I'm sick of getting people and then moving them to a position where we need someone. We need to go out and get a player that actually plays the position we're looking to fill.
Kent is just as good a 1st or third baseman as he is a 2b.
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Ray
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Jul 25 2005, 03:36 PM
Post #49
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Army Strong
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- timotime
- Jul 25 2005, 03:24 PM
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- Mr. Sunshine
- Jul 25 2005, 02:41 PM
i also think kent can be convinced to play 1st
Good for him. I'm sick of getting people and then moving them to a position where we need someone. We need to go out and get a player that actually plays the position we're looking to fill.
Kent is just as good a 1st or third baseman as he is a 2b.
I know, I was making my comment in general, sorta.
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YankeeBaseball
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Jul 25 2005, 05:39 PM
Post #50
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- rsj23terp
- Jul 25 2005, 01:26 PM
- Mattingly23
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- rsj23terp
- Jul 25 2005, 01:08 PM
Oh, Matty, you're here. You wanna have our Kent HOF argument publically here?
Not really, don't have much time during lunch, but I basically agree with all of your points. My standards are high for the HOF too, but I just think because of the position he plays, he is nearing "lock status." It doesn't mean I necessarily agree with it, but he's getting in. Hell, I don't even think of Palmeiro as a no doubt HOF'er, but he's a lock on two angles now, almost 600 HRs and over 3000 hits.
Palmeiro is a joke. He's accomplished a lot of things, but he instantly becomes the worst player ever to be a HOF'er when he's inducted (and he will be.)
How about Rizzuto, Terps? I loved him as an announcer but his career was hardly Hall of Fame worthy. Same with PeeWee Reese. :peace:
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YankeeBaseball
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Jul 25 2005, 05:40 PM
Post #51
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- Njdevils350
- Jul 25 2005, 02:17 PM
- FloydNbunch
- Jul 25 2005, 01:07 PM
- timotime
- Jul 25 2005, 10:59 AM
- Quote:
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On top of all that, Soriano is older than he claims, which means he is on a downward side of his career :laugh: Your opinion of his age, which isn't based on anything other than pure speculation, hardly qualifies as a legitimate argument against him. It simply furthers my claim that a lot of Mets fans are unreasonably biased against Soriano.
The guy is probably around 33 old players breakdown!
[size=7] OK Rain Man[/size]
:laugh:
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YankeeBaseball
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Jul 25 2005, 05:42 PM
Post #52
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- Mr. Sunshine
- Jul 25 2005, 02:41 PM
i also think kent can be convinced to play 1st
Good point, Brova Pete. ;)
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timotime
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Jul 25 2005, 06:09 PM
Post #53
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- Jul 25 2005, 05:39 PM
- rsj23terp
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- Mattingly23
- Jul 25 2005, 01:11 PM
- rsj23terp
- Jul 25 2005, 01:08 PM
Oh, Matty, you're here. You wanna have our Kent HOF argument publically here?
Not really, don't have much time during lunch, but I basically agree with all of your points. My standards are high for the HOF too, but I just think because of the position he plays, he is nearing "lock status." It doesn't mean I necessarily agree with it, but he's getting in. Hell, I don't even think of Palmeiro as a no doubt HOF'er, but he's a lock on two angles now, almost 600 HRs and over 3000 hits.
Palmeiro is a joke. He's accomplished a lot of things, but he instantly becomes the worst player ever to be a HOF'er when he's inducted (and he will be.)
How about Rizzuto, Terps? I love him as an announcer but his career was hardly Hall of Fame worthy. Same with PeeWee Reese. :peace:
I'll give Pee Wee Reese a pass. Remember, it isn't a hall of really good numbers.
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Gategem
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Jul 25 2005, 07:38 PM
Post #54
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Member In Exile
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You have to compare a ball player against his peers not against players of different generations. Right now the baseball is so live that the other day in Anaheim Matsui broke his bat and almost hit it out and the announcers claimed it would have gone out in the Texas joke of a ball park. Walt Michaels, when he was Jets coach, referring to his punter, once said he could fart the ball further then the Punter kicked it. Well with the jack rabbit in the baseball, a really good farter, standing at home plate, could probably fart one out of the Texas Park. So Rizzuto and Reese were among the top shortstops of their time.
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YankeeBaseball
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Jul 25 2005, 10:01 PM
Post #55
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- Gategem
- Jul 25 2005, 07:38 PM
You have to compare a ball player against his peers not against players of different generations. Right now the baseball is so live that the other day in Anaheim Matsui broke his bat and almost hit it out and the announcers claimed it would have gone out in the Texas joke of a ball park. Walt Michaels, when he was Jets coach, referring to his punter, once said he could fart the ball further then the Punter kicked it. Well with the jack rabbit in the baseball, a really good farter, standing at home plate, could probably fart one out of the Texas Park. So Rizzuto and Reese were among the top shortstops of their time.
[size=14]Don't bullsh*t Me![/size]
Don't wanna compare them to todays hitters?
Fine, compare Reese and the Scooter to a REAL Hall Of Fame Shortstop, Honus Wagner (who played in the DEADBALL era back when MM was a wee tyke)!
Reese hit a paltry .269 lifetime and Rizzuto .273 with NO POWER WhatSOever!
Here is what Honus Wagner did:
Honus Wagner combined rare offensive and defensive excellence throughout a 21-year career. He broke into the big leagues by hitting .344, the first of 17 consecutive seasons of hitting over .300, including eight as the National League batting champion. Wagner compiled a lifetime average of .329, and the "Flying Dutchman" also stole 722 bases, while leading the league in thefts on five occasions.
Nuf Said. :smirk:
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FloydNbunch
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Jul 25 2005, 10:16 PM
Post #56
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Does WrightNbunch sound good?
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- Jul 25 2005, 09:01 PM
- Gategem
- Jul 25 2005, 07:38 PM
You have to compare a ball player against his peers not against players of different generations. Right now the baseball is so live that the other day in Anaheim Matsui broke his bat and almost hit it out and the announcers claimed it would have gone out in the Texas joke of a ball park. Walt Michaels, when he was Jets coach, referring to his punter, once said he could fart the ball further then the Punter kicked it. Well with the jack rabbit in the baseball, a really good farter, standing at home plate, could probably fart one out of the Texas Park. So Rizzuto and Reese were among the top shortstops of their time. [size=14]Don't bullsh*t Me![/size]Don't wanna compare them to todays hitters? Fine, compare Reese and the Scooter to a REAL Hall Of Fame Shortstop, Honus Wagner (who played in the DEADBALL era back when MM was a wee tyke)! Reese hit a paltry .269 lifetime and Rizzuto .273 with NO POWER WhatSOever! Here is what Honus Wagner did: Honus Wagner combined rare offensive and defensive excellence throughout a 21-year career. He broke into the big leagues by hitting .344, the first of 17 consecutive seasons of hitting over .300, including eight as the National League batting champion. Wagner compiled a lifetime average of .329, and the "Flying Dutchman" also stole 722 bases, while leading the league in thefts on five occasions. Nuf Said. :smirk:
:clap:
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rsj23terp
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Jul 25 2005, 11:17 PM
Post #57
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- Mattingly23
- Jul 25 2005, 01:11 PM
- rsj23terp
- Jul 25 2005, 01:08 PM
Oh, Matty, you're here. You wanna have our Kent HOF argument publically here?
Not really, don't have much time during lunch, but I basically agree with all of your points. My standards are high for the HOF too, but I just think because of the position he plays, he is nearing "lock status." It doesn't mean I necessarily agree with it, but he's getting in. Hell, I don't even think of Palmeiro as a no doubt HOF'er, but he's a lock on two angles now, almost 600 HRs and over 3000 hits.
Palmeiro is a joke. He's accomplished a lot of things, but he instantly becomes the worst player ever to be a HOF'er when he's inducted (and he will be.)
How about Rizzuto, Terps? I loved him as an announcer but his career was hardly Hall of Fame worthy. Same with PeeWee Reese. :peace:
He won an MVP award and played on seven WS champs. He was also in the top 6 MVP voting twice more, and in the top 20 seven times.
He's a borderline HOFer as a player, i'll admit that. But as I said before, its Hall of Fame, not Hall of Stats.
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YankeeBaseball
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Jul 25 2005, 11:20 PM
Post #58
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- rsj23terp
- Jul 25 2005, 11:17 PM
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- Mattingly23
- Jul 25 2005, 01:11 PM
- rsj23terp
- Jul 25 2005, 01:08 PM
Oh, Matty, you're here. You wanna have our Kent HOF argument publically here?
Not really, don't have much time during lunch, but I basically agree with all of your points. My standards are high for the HOF too, but I just think because of the position he plays, he is nearing "lock status." It doesn't mean I necessarily agree with it, but he's getting in. Hell, I don't even think of Palmeiro as a no doubt HOF'er, but he's a lock on two angles now, almost 600 HRs and over 3000 hits.
Palmeiro is a joke. He's accomplished a lot of things, but he instantly becomes the worst player ever to be a HOF'er when he's inducted (and he will be.)
How about Rizzuto, Terps? I loved him as an announcer but his career was hardly Hall of Fame worthy. Same with PeeWee Reese. :peace:
He won an MVP award and played on seven WS champs. He was also in the top 6 MVP voting twice more, and in the top 20 seven times. He's a borderline HOFer as a player, i'll admit that. But as I said before, its Hall of Fame, not Hall of Stats.
Fair Enough. :agent:
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Gategem
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Jul 25 2005, 11:47 PM
Post #59
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Member In Exile
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- Jul 25 2005, 10:17 PM
- YankeeBaseball
- Jul 25 2005, 05:39 PM
- rsj23terp
- Jul 25 2005, 01:26 PM
- Mattingly23
- Jul 25 2005, 01:11 PM
- rsj23terp
- Jul 25 2005, 01:08 PM
Oh, Matty, you're here. You wanna have our Kent HOF argument publically here?
Not really, don't have much time during lunch, but I basically agree with all of your points. My standards are high for the HOF too, but I just think because of the position he plays, he is nearing "lock status." It doesn't mean I necessarily agree with it, but he's getting in. Hell, I don't even think of Palmeiro as a no doubt HOF'er, but he's a lock on two angles now, almost 600 HRs and over 3000 hits.
Palmeiro is a joke. He's accomplished a lot of things, but he instantly becomes the worst player ever to be a HOF'er when he's inducted (and he will be.)
How about Rizzuto, Terps? I loved him as an announcer but his career was hardly Hall of Fame worthy. Same with PeeWee Reese. :peace:
He won an MVP award and played on seven WS champs. He was also in the top 6 MVP voting twice more, and in the top 20 seven times. He's a borderline HOFer as a player, i'll admit that. But as I said before, its Hall of Fame, not Hall of Stats.
Thank you Terps.
Many of Reese’s teammates claimed he was the glue of those teams. His play transcended his numbers. And YB not every out fielder in the HOF has Ruth’s numbers. Wagner was an all time great, just like Ruth was, just like Walter Johnson was and just like A-Rod is.
When Jackie Robinson was brought up to the majors his acceptance by the team came much more readily because Reese took Robinson under his wing so to speak. Most of the club followed Reese.
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YankeeBaseball
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Jul 26 2005, 12:10 AM
Post #60
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- Posts:
- 14,555
- Group:
- VC_Members
- Member
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- Joined:
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- Gategem
- Jul 25 2005, 11:47 PM
- rsj23terp
- Jul 25 2005, 10:17 PM
- YankeeBaseball
- Jul 25 2005, 05:39 PM
- rsj23terp
- Jul 25 2005, 01:26 PM
- Mattingly23
- Jul 25 2005, 01:11 PM
- rsj23terp
- Jul 25 2005, 01:08 PM
Oh, Matty, you're here. You wanna have our Kent HOF argument publically here?
Not really, don't have much time during lunch, but I basically agree with all of your points. My standards are high for the HOF too, but I just think because of the position he plays, he is nearing "lock status." It doesn't mean I necessarily agree with it, but he's getting in. Hell, I don't even think of Palmeiro as a no doubt HOF'er, but he's a lock on two angles now, almost 600 HRs and over 3000 hits.
Palmeiro is a joke. He's accomplished a lot of things, but he instantly becomes the worst player ever to be a HOF'er when he's inducted (and he will be.)
How about Rizzuto, Terps? I loved him as an announcer but his career was hardly Hall of Fame worthy. Same with PeeWee Reese. :peace:
He won an MVP award and played on seven WS champs. He was also in the top 6 MVP voting twice more, and in the top 20 seven times. He's a borderline HOFer as a player, i'll admit that. But as I said before, its Hall of Fame, not Hall of Stats.
Thank you Terps. Many of Reese’s teammates claimed he was the glue of those teams. His play transcended his numbers. And YB not every out fielder in the HOF has Ruth’s numbers. Wagner was an all time great, just like Ruth was, just like Walter Johnson was and just like A-Rod is. When Jackie Robinson was brought up to the majors his acceptance by the team came much more readily because Reese took Robinson under his wing so to speak. Most of the club followed Reese.
He said he was border line HOF. I happen to think Reese and Rizzuto are borderline "just misses" and that they got in on a sentimental vote. :peace:
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