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You're not going to like this, but it's how I feel
Topic Started: Jun 10 2005, 11:33 PM (588 Views)
Strider
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Mattingly23
Jun 11 2005, 12:10 AM
Drew
Jun 11 2005, 12:05 AM
Do what the Mets did a few years ago.  Maybe we can get a Victor Diaz-type for someone.

Exactamundo!

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The Mets dumped everyone that year. They got guys like Royce Ring (being given a chance now) for Alomar, and Victor Diaz (obviously a good hitter) for Burnitz, two guys they desperately wanted to move.

Plus in recent years they have moved middle relievers like Turk Wendell and David Weathers. You just move them for the sake of getting anything for them, plus it opens a spot in the pen for a younger guy, who then gets the chance to learn on the fly how to pitch in the majors.

If you move guys like that, plus maybe even a Sheffield to a team who is a big bat away from being a legit title contender, you have young guys to work with in deals in the offseason, plus the $40 million or so "cap room" Strider referred to. You have a lot more possibilities to work with.

But who replaces Sheffield? Even after the moves, this is still a veteran laden team. I don't think we'd be able to trade for anyone who can give us near the production. We don't have any ML ready corner OFers who would step in. And I don't know of any good enough free agent RFers out there. And if we're gonna sign one, we might as well have just kept him.

Which teams could we trade him to anyway? Most of the teams heading for the post season don't have a hole in OF or need that much offensive help. Or would be willing to give much for him.
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Big_Lou
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There's a word for that Jules, A BUM!, A FU<KING BUM! :laugh:
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Strider
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YES YOU DID! YES YOU DID, BRAD. YOU TRIED TO FU©K HIM!
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Big_Lou
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"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you." I been sayin' that sh!t for years. And if you ever heard it, it meant your ass. I never really questioned what it meant. I thought it was just a cold-blooded thing to say to a mothafu<ka before you popped a cap in his ass. But I saw some sh!t this mornin' made me think twice. Now I'm thinkin': it could mean you're the evil man. And I'm the righteous man. And Mr. .45 here, he's the shepherd protecting my righteous ass in the valley of darkness. Or is could by you're the righteous man and I'm the shepherd and it's the world that's evil and selfish. I'd like that. But that sh!t ain't the truth. The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin, Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be the shepherd.

:agent:-Now that's one bad ass muthafu<ker!
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HomieYank
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cmnyy
Jun 10 2005, 10:33 PM
Call Beane, tell him he can take 2 of the 3: Cano/Wang/Duncan

Send us Zito.

Kill me if you want, but we need to shake things up.

You listen to me and you listen good. From the bottom of my heart and with every bit of my soul I hate you and everything you stand for. BUT DAMNIT DO I RESPECT YOU!!

i'm just joshin, you're cool. As for the trade hell no, Zito's a little bitch who tries to get attention by actin weird, screw him.

PS -> this is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated.

PSS ->In real life i have never once used the word "Joshing"
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Yanks473
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And the Band played on......
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Zito is my boy but he wouldn't shake anything up on this team.
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Yanksfan03
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cmnyy
Jun 10 2005, 11:40 PM
Yanksfan03
Jun 10 2005, 11:36 PM
Lets trade two of our three most valuable chips for a piece of sh*t.  Good thinking.  :thumbup:



You know what dude - I've disagreed with alot of sh*t you've said over the years, but I've always disagreed with you respectfully. I've even defended you a number of times.

And whenever you disagree with me, you do it like that. "Stupidity"

Fu<k you man. Seriously.

I'm not going to start a war of words with you here, I'll just say that I wasn't trying to offend you, I thought it was a stupid trade idea so I said "stupidity," I didn't call you stupid. My other comment was more or less a sarcastic remark, again, I don't see how this was "disrespectful."
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Giambi_MVP_25
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Yanks473
Jun 11 2005, 12:41 AM
Zito is my boy but he wouldn't shake anything up on this team.

He'd make the team gayer.
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YankeeBaseball
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Drew
Jun 11 2005, 01:07 AM
Yanks473
Jun 11 2005, 12:41 AM
Zito is my boy but he wouldn't shake anything up on this team.

He'd make the team gayer.

:laugh:
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Strider
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Drew
Jun 11 2005, 01:07 AM
Yanks473
Jun 11 2005, 12:41 AM
Zito is my boy but he wouldn't shake anything up on this team.

He'd make the team gayer.

That Yoga, guitar playing, and stuffed animal sh*t wouldn't fly in the Yankees clubhouse. And I don't think he'd be happy here. He's Bill Lee w/o the weed. One of those "free spirits" who would hate being fenced in and forced to conform. He's a 2005 hippy. He'd probably start referring to Joe as "The Man".
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rsj23terp

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cmnyy
Jun 10 2005, 11:33 PM
Call Beane, tell him he can take 2 of the 3: Cano/Wang/Duncan

Send us Zito.

Kill me if you want, but we need to shake things up.

I'm not even going to justify that by posting Zito's stats for the last season and a half, but suffice it to say, they are crap, and so is he.

Not to mention the fact that a loose-cannon who would not fit in (much in the same way Giambi never did.)

I don't see how giving away two GOOD young players for a guy who can't get it over the plate -- and when he does gets smacked around the ballpark -- is going to help anything. We should be trying to rid the team of dead weight, not add another stiff.

Your Zito infatuation is common knowledge. Put the binoculars down and get out of the trees in his front yard and come back to reality.
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Bleedrngrblue
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"Zito, 27, is not the pitcher he was when he won the 2002 Cy Young Award, but his 2-7 record and 4.41 ERA are deceptive. His run support is the fourth worst in the A.L., and his ERA is 3.48 over his last 11 starts "


I'll open with that quote, and then tell you how I think Zito would be good here. I proposed a trade on another thread that involved Zito and Byrnes coming here. I believe a change of scenery would do him good. Maybe a package of Wang and DePaula, Andy Phillips, Melky Cabrera, Brown or Giambi, and cash(loads of it) can get this done They are gonna lose Byrnes after this season and Zito has 1 more year on his deal. I like the way Byrnes plays the game. This would also allow us to entertain offers for Sheff. We gotta look at trading him now, we aren't winning a world series this year. Before anyone goes off on the youth in the package, Zito is 10 times the pitcher Wang is, and you gotta give something to get something. DePaula , Phillips, and Cabrera are decent players who could turn into something, but are cheap, a BIG word in the A's world! I put Brown or Giambi in there based more on hope than anything else, though they might take a Brown, to trade somewhere else or plug in for the rest of the season.
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rsj23terp

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Bleedrngrblue
Jun 11 2005, 07:30 AM
"Zito, 27, is not the pitcher he was when he won the 2002 Cy Young Award, but his 2-7 record and 4.41 ERA are deceptive. His run support is the fourth worst in the A.L., and his ERA is 3.48 over his last 11 starts "


I'll open with that quote, and then tell you how I think Zito would be good here. I proposed a trade on another thread that involved Zito and Byrnes coming here. I believe a change of scenery would do him good. Maybe a package of Wang and DePaula, Andy Phillips, Melky Cabrera, Brown or Giambi, and cash(loads of it) can get this done They are gonna lose Byrnes after this season and Zito has 1 more year on his deal. I like the way Byrnes plays the game. This would also allow us to entertain offers for Sheff. We gotta look at trading him now, we aren't winning a world series this year. Before anyone goes off on the youth in the package, Zito is 10 times the pitcher Wang is, and you gotta give something to get something. DePaula , Phillips, and Cabrera are decent players who could turn into something, but are cheap, a BIG word in the A's world! I put Brown or Giambi in there based more on hope than anything else, though they might take a Brown, to trade somewhere else or plug in for the rest of the season.

A change in scenery from a consequence-free environment like Oakland to the high pressure of New York hardly ever benefits anybody.

I'm certain that a new lease on life could help Zito, I just have a hard time believing that would happen here.

And with his stats, what about last year when he was a .500 pitcher on a team that won 91 games?

He seems to have entered that "pitching just well enough to lose" area. I don't really buy that no-run support thing. You pitch to the scoreboard. If you give up more runs than your team scores, you lose. Period.

Byrnes is going to be 30 in February, and is hitting .250 and has never had a better average than .283. I like how hard he plays too, but so what?
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moomoo24
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I'm going to half agree with you Cm. I would have no trouble sending Wang to Oakland in a deal for Zito, but I'm holding out faith that Duncan and Cano could be the right side of the infield for a long time to come. I'm not sure if Wang, Phillips and a guy like Melky Cabrera would get the job done, but if you can send that package to Oakland for Zito I think you do it.
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I'mRickJamesBitch
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Zito can't pitch in NY. Might as well get Clemens, this team is old anyways, no chance to rebuild on the fly.
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cmnyy
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Thanks for the support moomoo and Bleedrngrblue. :thumbup:

I like the idea of using Giambi in the deal, but I don't see it happening.

Call Beane, offer him Giambi and his choice of Wang/Cano/Duncan + enough money to even out Zito and Jason "The Albatross" Giambi's contracts (I'm guessing between 60 and 70 million) and see if he bites. I doubt it, but worth the call.


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rsj23terp

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cmnyy
Jun 11 2005, 04:25 PM
Thanks for the support moomoo and Bleedrngrblue. :thumbup:

I like the idea of using Giambi in the deal, but I don't see it happening.

Call Beane, offer him Giambi and his choice of Wang/Cano/Duncan + enough money to even out Zito and Jason "The Albatross" Giambi's contracts (I'm guessing between 60 and 70 million) and see if he bites. I doubt it, but worth the call.

You keep saying the same thing.

Any particular reason you think Zito would fit here? Why so eager to dump every remaining prospect the Yankees have for a guy who has been average -- at best -- over the last year and a half?

I respect your opinion, I just don't happen to see any sort of rational thought behind it because you haven't given a reason.
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rsj23terp
Jun 11 2005, 07:50 AM
Bleedrngrblue
Jun 11 2005, 07:30 AM
"Zito, 27, is not the pitcher he was when he won the 2002 Cy Young Award, but his 2-7 record and 4.41 ERA are deceptive. His run support is the fourth worst in the A.L., and his ERA is 3.48 over his last 11 starts "


I'll open with that quote, and then tell you how I think Zito would be good here. I proposed a trade on another thread that involved Zito and Byrnes coming here. I believe a change of scenery would do him good. Maybe a package of Wang and DePaula, Andy Phillips, Melky Cabrera, Brown or Giambi, and cash(loads of it) can get this done They are gonna lose Byrnes after this season and Zito has 1 more year on his deal. I like the way Byrnes plays the game. This would also allow us to entertain offers for Sheff. We gotta look at trading him now, we aren't winning a world series this year. Before anyone goes off on the youth in the package, Zito is 10 times the pitcher Wang is, and you gotta give something to get something. DePaula , Phillips, and Cabrera are decent players who could turn into something, but are cheap, a BIG word in the A's world! I put Brown or Giambi in there based more on hope than anything else, though they might take a Brown, to trade somewhere else or plug in for the rest of the season.

A change in scenery from a consequence-free environment like Oakland to the high pressure of New York hardly ever benefits anybody.

I'm certain that a new lease on life could help Zito, I just have a hard time believing that would happen here.

And with his stats, what about last year when he was a .500 pitcher on a team that won 91 games?

He seems to have entered that "pitching just well enough to lose" area. I don't really buy that no-run support thing. You pitch to the scoreboard. If you give up more runs than your team scores, you lose. Period.

Byrnes is going to be 30 in February, and is hitting .250 and has never had a better average than .283. I like how hard he plays too, but so what?

If he's gonna come to NY, I think the Mets would be a better fit for zito; reunited with his favorite guru pitchin coach.

He wouldn't last til the all star break with the Yankees. :-|

PLUS, we should not be giving away any of our young talent. We should rather be trying to unload some of the over the hill gang. :peace:
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Strider
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I can't find my Zito post. I covered everything in there too. Not to ride my own dick, but it was a f*cking good post.
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Jeter

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Cashman is gonna get Griffey
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Big_Lou
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Jeter
Jun 12 2005, 02:59 AM
Cashman is gonna get Griffey

:unsure:

Why? & for who?

Fuggetaboutit!
That bitch said he'll never play here, so fu<k him.
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Bleedrngrblue
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If Zito were to come here, he is a number 3 in our rotation. That alone makes him much more comfortable than his current situation. I just think the guy has alot more left in the tank. Besides, he can do no worse than Pavano and Brown are currently, and is YOUNGER than both of them at 27 years of age. As for Byrnes, I'd just like to see a hustling, hard nosed player here for a change. We lost that when Paulie retired, and it has turned this team into the soft bitches they are! Byrnes is capable of infusing some fire here as a role playing outfielder, or off the bench! I don't see a problem trading Andy Phillips, who is wasting away at AAA, or Melky Cabrera, who at best, is probably short of Roberto Kelly, at least in my eyes. The question is, who is the better pitcher Wang or Zito? I go with Zito. Depaula .....a serviceable MLB player, isn't someone I would hold this deal up for. As for someones comment about trading all this youth...... well none of this youth, is getting us anywhere near a world series, even if its allowed to develop here. The only minor leaguer that may help us in the long run, other than Cano, is Duncan. The guy can hit! If the Yanks experiment with A Rod as a centerfielder in the off season, we may actually see Duncan sooner rather than later.
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rsj23terp

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Bleedrngrblue
Jun 12 2005, 07:46 AM
If the Yanks experiment with A Rod as a centerfielder in the off season, we may actually see Duncan sooner rather than later.

Duncan will be the Yankees everyday first baseman in 3 years, max.

A-Rod isn't changing positions again. Not a chance in hell.

I still don't see how Zito helps. If he put up the numbers he's given Oakland for the last year and a half you'd all label him captain of the Soft L's.

Consider too that he plays in a pitcher's park in Oakland. The alleys aren't as deep as the Stadium, but down the line its deeper, plus acres of foul territory. I don't see how "he can do no worse than..." is a real positive. If you're going to give up the farm for somebody, you'd at least like to say he's reliable, which nobody can argue he is.

You want Eric Byrnes? Wait for him to be a free agent and sign him if you want a 30 year old with no discernible skill other than total disregard for his body. Those guys last forever, don't they?

And please don't compare anybody to Paul O'Neill, who was emotional and GOOD. Byrnes is just a lunatic, who for every diving catch he makes turns two singles into doubles by letting the ball get past him.
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moomoo24
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But we're not in essence giving up the farm if we just include the players Bleedrngrblue included. Phillips is reaching Steve Balboni status with his AAA power numbers and we should deal him while his value is high. Cabrera and DePaula aren't guys that take a team to the next level. I say pull the trigger, like bleedrngrblue said, he'd be a #3/4 starter on this team and wouldn't be matching up against other teams aces. I would take a rotation of Johnson, Mussina, Pavano and Zito in a heartbeat.
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HomieYank
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I'll admit that Zito has had a good May/June. But at home he has a 3.21 and on the road he has a 5.25. Since 2002 he has a 5.84 at Yankee stadium. He has terrible numbers againts Boston, Baltimore and Tampa Bay this year, terrible numbers against Baltimore and Boston last year and Horrible numbers against Boston in 2003. Left Handed Hitters(Damon, Ortiz, Nixon, Roberts, Varitek) hit him pretty hard.

I know he's only two years older than Wang, and I know those other guys aren't deal breakers, but we aren't going to make a huge jump by adding somebody who is only slightly better than the guy we're trading for him, especially with all those numbers I just mentioned.
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rsj23terp

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moomoo24
Jun 12 2005, 11:08 AM
But we're not in essence giving up the farm if we just include the players Bleedrngrblue included. Phillips is reaching Steve Balboni status with his AAA power numbers and we should deal him while his value is high. Cabrera and DePaula aren't guys that take a team to the next level. I say pull the trigger, like bleedrngrblue said, he'd be a #3/4 starter on this team and wouldn't be matching up against other teams aces. I would take a rotation of Johnson, Mussina, Pavano and Zito in a heartbeat.

So you're working under the assumption that Oakland's scouts haven't come to the same conclusions you have about Phillips and others and would actually want them?

Oakland knows who the real Yankee prospects are, I have a hard time believing they would part with Zito without including at least one of Wang/Cano/Duncan. I'm not willing to give away any of them for a guy who hasn't done sh*t for 2 years and doesn't seem to have the type of personality that would fit in New York.

Not mentioning those guys in any potential trade for Zito is just plain silly. Oakland has scouts just like the Yankees do. They aren't going to take crap from our system for no reason.

I don't see why everyone has such a high opinion of Zito. He walks EVERYBODY. He hasn't been even a moderately consistent pitcher since 2002. His ERA has gone up the last 2 years, and his K/BB ratio has gotten worse over that same time. Its not because he's facing other team's aces that he's losing, its an ERA around 4.50.

If our prospects are so great, why not use them for someone who can actually help, not someone with his head up his ass? There's no rule that you HAVE to trade away players from your minor league system who might not pan out.

Moral of the story: unless you think Billy Beane is an idiot with a lousy scouting department -- good luck -- Zito would NEVER be dealt here for the players you propose. I guarantee he's got people who have scouted the Yankee organization fare more in depth than you have.
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Grandy4MVP
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Can we please stop the A Rod to Center Field bullsh*t, not happening!
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cmnyy
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rsj23terp
Jun 11 2005, 06:35 PM
cmnyy
Jun 11 2005, 04:25 PM
Thanks for the support moomoo and Bleedrngrblue.  :thumbup:

I like the idea of using Giambi in the deal, but I don't see it happening.

Call Beane, offer him Giambi and his choice of Wang/Cano/Duncan + enough money to even out Zito and Jason "The Albatross" Giambi's contracts (I'm guessing between 60 and 70 million) and see if he bites. I doubt it, but worth the call.

You keep saying the same thing.

Any particular reason you think Zito would fit here? Why so eager to dump every remaining prospect the Yankees have for a guy who has been average -- at best -- over the last year and a half?

I respect your opinion, I just don't happen to see any sort of rational thought behind it because you haven't given a reason.


I wasn't very clear on that - I meant of of those three: Wang/Cano/Duncan + Giambi and the $$$ to pay Giambi.

I like Zito because he's young, lefty, and a former Cy Young award winner. He also seems to be headed in the right direction again.




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Mattingly23
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Jun 12 2005, 01:16 PM
Can we please stop the A Rod to Center Field bullsh*t, not happening!

I agree it's silly, but it's starting to get mentioned more, although these reporters could be making crap up. Here's Mike Lupica's opinion on it:

Quote:
 
Maybe next year A-Rod can take fly balls in center in the spring, see if he can catch them better than he can catch pop flies in the infield. Because more and more, it looks as if A-Rod, first-to-400 homers A-Rod, will eventually be something other than the Yankee third baseman of the future. He goes to center, or he goes to first. Maybe first is more likely.
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rsj23terp

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By the way, Zito got a win today.

5 IP, 4 ER, 4 H, 6 BB, 6 K.

A's won 11-5. Better go out and get him now. He's on fire.
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