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"Shame on you."
Topic Started: Apr 7 2005, 10:47 AM (521 Views)
cmnyy
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Mike Vaccaro - NY Post

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BRONX CHEER BACK AT YA
By MIKE VACCARO

SHAME on you, if you were a member of the leather-lunged brigade of blowhards who stood up at Yankee Stadium yesterday, just as the big Armitron clock clicked to 4:13 p.m., and committed one of the most despicable acts of baseball ingratitude we've seen around here in a long, long time.

You booed Mariano Rivera?

You really booed Mariano Rivera?

Yeah. Damn right. Shame on you.

"After everything he's done for this team in this ballpark," Mel Stottlemyre fumed, "I was shocked."

"Maybe," Mike Mussina mused, "it was just a case of temporary insanity."

"There are always about 20,000 Red Sox fans here when we play them," Mariano Rivera said, a half-smile on his face. "Maybe it was only Sox fans who were booing."

If they were, then a lot of the people showering Rivera with their unspeakable bile were Sox fans who decided to wear Yankees hats, Yankees jerseys and Yankees jackets to the Stadium yesterday, who decided to take out their frustrations on the impending demise of their dream of a 162-0 Yankee season on Rivera, who is only the reason these soulless dopes have had such a magnificent team to root for these past few years.

Maybe Mariano Rivera didn't mind what he was hearing since he lives by a similar credo, the same one any reliever with any degree of success endorses. He has a short memory. He worries only about today, has no use for yesterday, last week, last year.

Fans are allowed short memories, too. Yankees fans prepared to canonize Aaron Boone one very late night were fully inclined to toss him in the Harlem River just a week later after a dozen feeble World Series at-bats. Mickey Mantle was booed here. Hell last year, even Derek Jeter was booed here, when he was at the dregs of his 0-for-April slump.

But Mariano Rivera? Are you kidding?

"It's inconceivable to me if he was getting booed by Yankees fans," Joe Torre marveled yesterday, a few minutes after watching the Red Sox roar back to beat the Yankees, 7-3, a few minutes after he'd seen Rivera blow a second straight save against the object of their fans' nonstop jihad. "They wouldn't be champing at the bit to get in here if it wasn't for him."

To the credit of many of the 55,165 people crammed into the Stadium, a fair number rose quickly and tried to drown the boos with cheers. They were a little too late to the cause. The boos carried the day, and it was as disgraceful a performance as you will ever expect to see at Yankee Stadium.

Rivera's crime? He's off to a tough start. He blew a save chance Tuesday when Jason Varitek caught up to a 95-mph cutter and dumped it in the right-field seats. And he blew yesterday's game when he couldn't throw strikes and then couldn't catch a break, Alex Rodriguez botching a double-play ball that should have rescued him.

So for a second straight day, what is normally a 1-2-3 trip to the bank became a 24-minute, 38-pitch adventure. The Sox, who reached Rivera on back-to-back days last October, did it again in April. Rivera has now blown 10 of his last 19 save opportunities against Boston. Is that a source of concern? You bet it is. Is it a little disconcerting to see Mariano Rivera do this Armando Benitez impersonation? Hell, yes.

Is it a reason to start booing the greatest closer in the history of baseball?

Only if you're an ungrateful lout. And yesterday, there were a couple thousand of you, maybe more, who sure played the part to perfection. Shame on you.

"This is what I do," Rivera said. "I love to be in this situation. It won't be the last one."

Good news for the Yankees. Bad news for those who see falling skies and gloomy times ahead because Rivera has committed the unpardonable sin of breaking slow from the gate. Those fans? They should be sentenced to a season of watching Braden Looper instead. See how much fun that is.






Agreed.


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Mantlemurcer
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Amen to that Father Vaccaro!
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Mantlemurcer
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By the way CM, love the sig! :clap:
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NYJ EcKo151
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I agree with him...But I f*ckin hate him since he f*ckin hates the Jets so bad.
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TheOne
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No real yankee fan should boo rivera, he's done so much for the yankees and their fans, he's a winner!!!
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Ray
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I think no player should be exempt from boos......if they deserve it at the time, then so be it. History shouldn't matter.
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TheOne
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Metsfan4life
Apr 7 2005, 12:32 PM
I think no player should be exempt from boos......if they deserve it at the time, then so be it. History shouldn't matter.

Silliness!!!
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cmnyy
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Mantlemurcer
Apr 7 2005, 12:08 PM
By the way CM, love the sig! :clap:


:thumbup: :agent:


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Zidanman
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Metsfan4life
Apr 7 2005, 11:32 AM
I think no player should be exempt from boos......if they deserve it at the time, then so be it. History shouldn't matter.

excellent point. rivera has blown so many big games the last couple years, in particular against boston, i think he did deserve to hear at least a round of boos. he shouldn't get booed next time out, but when you constantly do bad against boston, you need to hear it.
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ES03

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but when you constantly do bad against boston, you need to hear it.


why would he need to hear it? you don't think he already knows it?

god, people are so stupid.
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My name is ET
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NYJets81JMac
Apr 7 2005, 11:16 AM
I agree with him...But I f*ckin hate him since he f*ckin hates the Jets so bad.

Steve Serby is the Jets guy anyway.
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Bklyn Bull 469
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I was at the game yesterday and I could not believe what I heard. I was just looking around and said to my friend Are these people kidding me? After everything MO has done how can you boo him.
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Mattingly23
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I know there's the whole school of thought of "I paid for my tickets and these guys are getting paid millions, so I will boo if I want to." Yes, everyone has a right to boo whoever they want. If guys who are overpaid and have never done anything to help the Yankees win titles struggle like Giambi, Brown, etc., fine, boo them. I'm not a big booer, but I wouldn't have a problem with those guys being booed, although I did yell at everyone in my section who booed Giambi at the home opener in 2002 because it was WAY too early to treat a new player that way.

However, I have a major problem with someone like Mariano Rivera being booed. Most of those ungrateful a-holes booing probably don't even remember Rivera coming up in 1995 as a starter. Many of them are probably Yankees fans as a result of Rivera being a huge part of the team since 1996. Without Rivera, those fans, even the ones who were fans way before 1996, would have a couple of less World Championships, at the least. I don't want to hear someone like Strider come back with a, "Yeah, but he's also cost them a couple of rings." Silliness.

The run Rivera was on from 1996 to just before Game 7 of the 2001 WS, sans Game 4 of the 1997 ALDS, was truly amazing and history making. It didn't end then, just the invincibility did. Does anyone remember how Mariano Rivera did in the 2003 ALCS against Boston? Remember those 3 innings in Game 7? Actually you can even include the 1995 ALDS, which was his coming out part, in case you weren't a fan by 1995 and didn't realize it. In fact, if Buck Showalter knew what he had, the Yankees might have won that series because he could have used him over a struggling John Wetteland and starting pitcher Jack McDowell as closer. The best thing to come out of that series was that the Yankees realized they had a future star on their hands and he was immediately inserted as Wetteland's 2 inning setup man in 1996 with the idea of letting Wetteland walk at the end of the season if things worked out. Guess what? They more than worked out. 9 years later, it can be said with conviction that Mariano Rivera is the best relief pitcher of all-time and as he ages and loses his invincibility, even if it is against Boston, he still deserves the respect of Yankees fans.

Am I worried about him against Boston? Absolutely, I am. I'm terrified right now.

Was I pissed the last two days? You better believe I was.

Will I ever rip on or boo Mariano Rivera? Not a chance in hell. I would rather thank him for the great times I have enjoyed as a Yankee fan the past 10 years after a childhood and teenage years of never even making the playoffs. I'd prefer to support him for the future success I know he will still have, even if he blows a game here or there.

I feel lucky to have watched Mariano Rivera close games for my favorite teams. It's a trite saying, but I will tell my grandkids about the greatest closer of all-time someday, even if he blows another game or two against Boston.
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JetersAngeL86

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Last time I checked no one is perfect and MO isn't GOD. he isn't going to pitch perfect games all the time...every once in awhile he is bound to blow a save. Also its only two days into the season..not everyone is going to automatically be on their game right when the season starts. people need to stop being ungreatful and grow the hell up. its only April not October.
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Strider
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You all knock I'm on his dick; but f*ck you Vacarro.

Nobody gets a "boo" pass from me. We don't owe you sh*t. You got the cheers and the admiration and adoration and money and figuerative blow jobs when you did well. That was your payment. When you suck, the boos come. That's how it works. What's the average salary in the U.S.? Isn't something like $28,000? These people make more in one game than the average person does in a year and you get it because you play a game - take it like a man. Money + fame + having 1 in a billion physical talent + living the life that we all wish we could = a dream. Throw "boos" in the mix and its still a damn good deal. The people in the stadium clapped down $___ to watch these guys do their jobs and Mariano didn't do his. They have every right to boo and I'm glad they did.

Picture it in another job. You've been to McDonald's a bunch of times and got your food with no trouble. You got what you expected (calories and all) every time. But one day they f*ck up and you realize the beef isn't cooked. Are you gonna say, "Well, they've done it right all these years. I better just keep to myself." NO! You voice your displeasure and either throw it out or have them take it back. Same thing. JOB is a JOB is a JOB. Hell, I'd feel more sympathy for the $6.25/hour cashier getting yelled at than the $11M celebrity.

Bernie's my favorite player (I'll be on that dick till he hangs 'em up) and if I go to a game this year and he's stinking, I'm booing the sh*t out of him. I'll boo so loud it might hurt his ear drum. ANYBODY can get it.

* And f*ck Michael Kay too. Saying that anyone who would boo Mariano isn't a real fan. I won't even bother ripping his silly ass. It would take too long.
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Ray
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Strider
Apr 7 2005, 01:43 PM
You all knock I'm on his dick; but f*ck you Vacarro.

Nobody gets a "boo" pass from me. We don't owe you sh*t. You got the cheers and the admiration and adoration and money and figuerative blow jobs when you did well. That was your payment. When you suck, the boos come. That's how it works. What's the average salary in the U.S.? Isn't something like $28,000? These people make more in one game than the average person does in a year and you get it because you play a game - take it like a man. Money + fame + having 1 in a billion physical talent + living the life that we all wish we could = a dream. Throw "boos" in the mix and its still a damn good deal. The people in the stadium clapped down $___ to watch these guys do their jobs and Mariano didn't do his. They have every right to boo and I'm glad they did.

Picture it in another job. You've been to McDonald's a bunch of times and got your food with no trouble. You got what you expected (calories and all) every time. But one day they f*ck up and you realize the beef isn't cooked. Are you gonna say, "Well, they've done it right all these years. I better just keep to myself." NO! You voice your displeasure and either throw it out or have them take it back. Same thing. JOB is a JOB is a JOB. Hell, I'd feel more sympathy for the $6.25/hour cashier getting yelled at than the $11M celebrity.

Bernie's my favorite player (I'll be on that dick till he hangs 'em up) and if I go to a game this year and he's stinking, I'm booing the sh*t out of him. I'll boo so loud it might hurt his ear drum. ANYBODY can get it.

* And f*ck Michael Kay too. Saying that anyone who would boo Mariano isn't a real fan. I won't even bother ripping his silly ass. It would take too long.

I'm with you on this one Strider. Excellent analogies and excellent points. Yeah, I'm on your dick for this one.
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Strider
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However, I have a major problem with someone like Mariano Rivera being booed. Most of those ungrateful a-holes booing probably don't even remember Rivera coming up in 1995 as a starter. Many of them are probably Yankees fans as a result of Rivera being a huge part of the team since 1996. Without Rivera, those fans, even the ones who were fans way before 1996, would have a couple of less World Championships, at the least. I don't want to hear someone like Strider come back with a, "Yeah, but he's also cost them a couple of rings." Silliness.


Read this after I posted. Why do you always assume that people who disagree with you haven't been watching the team that long? Last year, I said that I'd trade Posada for Randy Johnson (if it could have happened) and you again brought up that "1996" sh*t. I ripped on Torre and you brought up the fact that I haven't been watching that long. How do you know that some of the booers haven't have fans since before you were born? The 70s ain't that long ago.

Actually, he only cost them 1 ring. There's no guarantee that we would have won it all in '97 or last season.

How do you know that the Yankees wouldn't have won 98-2000 with a different closer?
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Mantlemurcer
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Strider
Apr 7 2005, 01:43 PM
You all knock I'm on his dick; but f*ck you Vacarro.

Nobody gets a "boo" pass from me. We don't owe you sh*t. You got the cheers and the admiration and adoration and money and figuerative blow jobs when you did well. That was your payment. When you suck, the boos come. That's how it works. What's the average salary in the U.S.? Isn't something like $28,000? These people make more in one game than the average person does in a year and you get it because you play a game - take it like a man. Money + fame + having 1 in a billion physical talent + living the life that we all wish we could = a dream. Throw "boos" in the mix and its still a damn good deal. The people in the stadium clapped down $___ to watch these guys do their jobs and Mariano didn't do his. They have every right to boo and I'm glad they did.

Picture it in another job. You've been to McDonald's a bunch of times and got your food with no trouble. You got what you expected (calories and all) every time. But one day they f*ck up and you realize the beef isn't cooked. Are you gonna say, "Well, they've done it right all these years. I better just keep to myself." NO! You voice your displeasure and either throw it out or have them take it back. Same thing. JOB is a JOB is a JOB. Hell, I'd feel more sympathy for the $6.25/hour cashier getting yelled at than the $11M celebrity.

Bernie's my favorite player (I'll be on that dick till he hangs 'em up) and if I go to a game this year and he's stinking, I'm booing the sh*t out of him. I'll boo so loud it might hurt his ear drum. ANYBODY can get it.

* And f*ck Michael Kay too. Saying that anyone who would boo Mariano isn't a real fan. I won't even bother ripping his silly ass. It would take too long.

Then I boo you Strider. :D

This isn't Jeff Weaver or Paul Quantrill or Mark Wohlers.
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Strider
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You can't boo me, MM. I'm the current BAS MVP. I ain't slippin'. :no2: And at 19, I'm still in my prime.

We don't owe ANYBODY anything. From Quantrill and Wohlers all the way up to Jeter and Rivera. You'll get your cheers and everything when you do well and the sh*t comes when you screw up. Damn, I'm repeating myself. I already said it all in the post you quoted.
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Mattingly23
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Apr 7 2005, 01:45 PM

I'm with you on this one Strider. Excellent analogies and excellent points. Yeah, I'm on your dick for this one.

You might feel differently if the team you rooted for had 4 titles much in thanks to a certain player. As for the analogies, they were silly. I'm not going to get into how the emotional attachment to a sports team is different from enjoying to eat at McDonald's. Lets just say besides maybe Rob, who has a burger in his avatar, we're not all posting thousands of messages to discuss how good Big Macs are.



Quote:
 
Read this after I posted. Why do you always assume that people who disagree with you haven't been watching the team that long? Last year, I said that I'd trade Posada for Randy Johnson (if it could have happened) and you again brought up that "1996" sh*t. I ripped on Torre and you brought up the fact that I haven't been watching that long. How do you know that some of the booers haven't have fans since before you were born? The 70s ain't that long ago.



Did you miss this part?

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Without Rivera, those fans, even the ones who were fans way before 1996, would have a couple of less World Championships, at the least.


I know there are plenty of irrational fans my age or older also.

You can rip on Torre for a move here and there. I do it too. Nobody is going to agree with every move a manager makes. However, you love to suggest firing him, as if there is somewhere out there that would be better and also provide the stability and keep the clubhouse egos in check the same way Torre has. Lets not get into this now though. We have many times before and we will in the future. This thread is about the greatest closer of all-time, not the manager who has led the Yankees to 4 titles, 6 pennants, and 9 playoff appearances. Don't reply to this part now, Strider. We'll save our Torre battles for later in the summer. Deal? Concentrate on Mo.

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Actually, he only cost them 1 ring. There's no guarantee that we would have won it all in '97 or last season.  How do you know that the Yankees wouldn't have won 98-2000 with a different closer?


It's possible they would have, but we'll never know. The Yankees will win future titles without Mo and won many before him, but it's not arguable that he wasn't a HUGE reason they won 4. 1996 is included because he was just as important as Wetteland in 1996. Without Mo, the only real money reliever they've had in the last 10 years is Mike Stanton. Everyone else was up and down like Nelson (great many series, but seemed to struggle in ALCSs) or horrible like a Jay Witasick. You don't win titles without your bullpen.
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Zidanman
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while i think mattingly23 makes some good points, i really think strider makes more good points. i'm sorry, but booing not only serves as a means to express your displeasure, which is every fans right, it serves as a measure to let the players know "what have you done for me lately." personally, if im a player and i'm getting my balls licked for the past and am getting a permanent pass, what's my motivation? i got my millions, i got my rings, i got my world series mvp. sure, rivera is probably ticked as hell about these blown saves, but i think it also serves as an extra motivator to know that if you can't right yourself against boston, the fans are going to boo you til your head explodes.
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Ray
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Zidanman
Apr 7 2005, 02:30 PM
while i think mattingly23 makes some good points, i really think strider makes more good points. i'm sorry, but booing not only serves as a means to express your displeasure, which is every fans right, it serves as a measure to let the players know "what have you done for me lately." personally, if im a player and i'm getting my balls licked for the past and am getting a permanent pass, what's my motivation? i got my millions, i got my rings, i got my world series mvp. sure, rivera is probably ticked as hell about these blown saves, but i think it also serves as an extra motivator to know that if you can't right yourself against boston, the fans are going to boo you til your head explodes.

And that's how New York fans are. It's definitely "what have you done for me lately".
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Strider
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Did you miss this part?


Yeah, I did. My mistake.

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It's possible they would have, but we'll never know. The Yankees will win future titles without Mo and won many before him, but it's not arguable that he wasn't a HUGE reason they won 4. 1996 is included because he was just as important as Wetteland in 1996. Without Mo, the only real money reliever they've had in the last 10 years is Mike Stanton. Everyone else was up and down like Nelson (great many series, but seemed to struggle in ALCSs) or horrible like a Jay Witasick. You don't win titles without your bullpen.


I said yesterday that I wasn't discouting what he's done in the past. We'll never know if another closer would have won 4, but the fact is that he helped win 4. Can't take that away from him. I just think that the fans shouldn't owe avoid booing him because of past performance. People knock the fact that sports is a "What have you done for me 2 seconds ago?" word, but it is. When he was doing his thing, he got cheers. When he does his thing this season, he'll get cheers. But I think the same thing goes for failure. Boos don't mean we hate you or we're forogtten everything. That's why I mentioned Bernie (as always). Booing (although it seems like something cavemen probably did) is just a way to show that we're upset. You're sucking and we're upset. Boos and cheers. You have a child who usually behaves well and all that good sh*t. One day, he does something bad and lies to you. Are you not gonna scold or punish him? Rewards for good performance and punishment for bad sh*t. Doesn't mean you've forgotten about how he usually is or that you don't love the kid anymore.
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Zidanman
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Metsfan4life
Apr 7 2005, 01:32 PM
Zidanman
Apr 7 2005, 02:30 PM
while i think mattingly23 makes some good points, i really think strider makes more good points. i'm sorry, but booing not only serves as a means to express your displeasure, which is every fans right, it serves as a measure to let the players know "what have you done for me lately." personally, if im a player and i'm getting my balls licked for the past and am getting a permanent pass, what's my motivation? i got my millions, i got my rings, i got my world series mvp. sure, rivera is probably ticked as hell about these blown saves, but i think it also serves as an extra motivator to know that if you can't right yourself against boston, the fans are going to boo you til your head explodes.

And that's how New York fans are. It's definitely "what have you done for me lately".

and there's nothing wrong about that. 10 years down the line at old timer's day, everyone is going to give the bernies and riveras the standing ovation of a lifetime. but when they are still playing and costing ballgames, they're going to hear it. every fan wants to win every game. that's how it is. nothing wrong with that.
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Ray
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Zidanman
Apr 7 2005, 02:35 PM
Metsfan4life
Apr 7 2005, 01:32 PM
Zidanman
Apr 7 2005, 02:30 PM
while i think mattingly23 makes some good points, i really think strider makes more good points. i'm sorry, but booing not only serves as a means to express your displeasure, which is every fans right, it serves as a measure to let the players know "what have you done for me lately." personally, if im a player and i'm getting my balls licked for the past and am getting a permanent pass, what's my motivation? i got my millions, i got my rings, i got my world series mvp. sure, rivera is probably ticked as hell about these blown saves, but i think it also serves as an extra motivator to know that if you can't right yourself against boston, the fans are going to boo you til your head explodes.

And that's how New York fans are. It's definitely "what have you done for me lately".

and there's nothing wrong about that. 10 years down the line at old timer's day, everyone is going to give the bernies and riveras the standing ovation of a lifetime. but when they are still playing and costing ballgames, they're going to hear it. every fan wants to win every game. that's how it is. nothing wrong with that.

Agreed.
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Mantlemurcer
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Strider
Apr 7 2005, 02:34 PM
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Did you miss this part?


Yeah, I did. My mistake.


:o
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Mantlemurcer
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Apr 7 2005, 02:32 PM
Zidanman
Apr 7 2005, 02:30 PM
while i think mattingly23 makes some good points, i really think strider makes more good points. i'm sorry, but booing not only serves as a means to express your displeasure, which is every fans right, it serves as a measure to let the players know "what have you done for me lately." personally, if im a player and i'm getting my balls licked for the past and am getting a permanent pass, what's my motivation? i got my millions, i got my rings, i got my world series mvp. sure, rivera is probably ticked as hell about these blown saves, but i think it also serves as an extra motivator to know that if you can't right yourself against boston, the fans are going to boo you til your head explodes.

And that's how New York fans are. It's definitely "what have you done for me lately".

Yup...and Yankee fans, especially those 18-25 are spoiled rotten.
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:yes:
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Zidanman
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Mantlemurcer
Apr 7 2005, 01:48 PM
Metsfan4life
Apr 7 2005, 02:32 PM
Zidanman
Apr 7 2005, 02:30 PM
while i think mattingly23 makes some good points, i really think strider makes more good points. i'm sorry, but booing not only serves as a means to express your displeasure, which is every fans right, it serves as a measure to let the players know "what have you done for me lately." personally, if im a player and i'm getting my balls licked for the past and am getting a permanent pass, what's my motivation? i got my millions, i got my rings, i got my world series mvp. sure, rivera is probably ticked as hell about these blown saves, but i think it also serves as an extra motivator to know that if you can't right yourself against boston, the fans are going to boo you til your head explodes.

And that's how New York fans are. It's definitely "what have you done for me lately".

Yup...and Yankee fans, especially those 18-25 are spoiled rotten.

does booing someone that screws up over and over and over against boston really make that person a spoiled fan? perhaps, they just want to see rivera pitch like he does against other teams. i'm sure all of us would rather he blow games against the devil rays and shut down the red sox.
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Strider
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Mantlemurcer
Apr 7 2005, 02:47 PM
Strider
Apr 7 2005, 02:34 PM
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Did you miss this part?


Yeah, I did. My mistake.


:o

I don't know what you're talking about. :dunno:

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Yup...and Yankee fans, especially those 18-25 are spoiled rotten.


Spoiled? I haven't seen a championship since I was 15. Since the dawn of the millenium. I know that years seems like days when you're over 35, but its an eternity for us. I am a LONG SUFFERING Yankees fan.
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