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Roberto Alomar to retire; At least that's what I read into it.
Topic Started: Mar 19 2005, 12:05 PM (230 Views)
VICTORious
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i have to admint justin has made me think about kent maybe being a hof
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TheOne
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Mr. Sunshine
Mar 20 2005, 05:35 PM
i have to admint justin has made me think about kent maybe being a hof

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


































i know what i heard!!!
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timotime
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TheOne
Mar 20 2005, 06:34 PM
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Mar 20 2005, 05:26 PM
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Mar 20 2005, 06:17 PM
timotime
Mar 20 2005, 05:11 PM
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Mar 20 2005, 06:08 PM
timotime
Mar 20 2005, 05:03 PM
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Mar 20 2005, 05:53 PM
timotime
Mar 20 2005, 04:43 PM
TheOne
Mar 20 2005, 05:38 PM
timotime
Mar 20 2005, 09:21 AM
TheOne
Mar 20 2005, 10:02 AM
timotime
Mar 20 2005, 08:53 AM
TheOne
Mar 20 2005, 08:54 AM
both alomar and kent are hall of famers but both can.................................


go f*ck themselves!!! :peace:

Kent is NOT a hall of famer. You don't just put every great player in the hall of fame. Kent isn't even close to being the all around play Alomar was, not to mention the fact that kent never won anything.

Kent will get in the HOF, he's puts up great numbers for his position (2nd base), especially in the homerun department, not too many 2nd baseman in the history of mlb were homerun hitters so kent will get in, he was a former mvp as well so stop the bullsh*t!!!

An MVP award is no indication of a Hall of Famer.

Are Larry Walker, Chipper Jones, Juan Gonzalez, Ken Caminiti, Mo Vaughn, and George Bell hall of famers? No. Are all great players? Of course.

Kent is a one-dimensional player.

kent has never won anything.

Is there one specific moment you remember Kent for? One specific homerun?

The hall of fame is for baseball immortality. I just don't put Kent in that category. You can't put every great player in the hall of fame.


what does winning have to do with anything, barry bonds hasn't won a ring his whole f*cking career, it's about stats not f*cking how your team does, yes he's a purely offensive player but you compare kent's stats to other HOF 2nd baseman and this is what you will see:

HOF 2nd Baseman

i couldn't copy and paste the stats cause the internet is gay but the 2nd baseman with the most homeruns is rogers hornsby with 301, kent already has him beat with 302 homeruns and kent will mostly likely play 3 more years! remember when players are voted in, they are judged by their numbers compared to other players that have played the same position, why is piazza going in the hall of fame, if he wasn't a catcher and had the same numbers he has now and playing another position he wouldn't get in, same situation with kent! here's kent's career numbers so far:

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

1777 6604 1039 1910 438 42 302 1207 592 1255 86 52 .289 .352 .505 .858

kent will end up with about 400 homeruns, 1500 rbi's, over 2000 hits, 1200 runs, he already has a career batting average of .289 and a career slugging percentage of .505 which would rank 2nd among 2nd baseman in the hall of fame, oh and one more thing, when you argue with me remember to bring facts and stats to backup your argument not bullsh*t!!!

It isn't just about stats. This isn't a fantasy baseball hall of fame. And I don't see what the hell Barry Bonds has to do with this argument.

Rogers Hornsby was one of the greatest players of his era. That can definitely not be said of Jeff Kent.

Jeff Kent is also a one dimensional player, and as a middle infielder that's definitey going to be looked at.

This isn't just about offensive production. It's about the complete package, which includes defense, winning, and how he compares to the other great players of his era.

Again, I'm not trying to say Jeff Kent isn't a great player. I'm just saying that he isn't a HOFer. There's a huge difference.

timo please, there you go, arguing with silly points, WINNING DOES NOT MATTER, with the baseball hall of fame it is all about stats, that's the way it's always been, this isn't the nba or nfl, stats mean everything in baseball! look maybe the hall of fame won't vote him in, it's quite possible, he's one of the more on the bubble guys (not to me though) but the stats backup my argument, there's no other way around it!!!

The stats do not back up your argument. Compare his stats (.289 average, 302 homeruns) to the other great players of his era. Not even close.

Now, I understand that different numbers are to be expected of a secondbaseman. So, I would be a bit more forgivng of kent...except for the fact that he was never a good defensive player.

And yes, winning does matter. it isn't the only thing, but it does matter. If Don Mattingly won a world series, don't you think he would definitely be a HOFer?

NO

don mattingly didn't go into the hall of fame cause he only had 5 good years as a player, the back injury he had cut short his career, timo it's not about kent's numbers compared to other players from his ERA, it's about his numbers compared to all other 2nd baseman!!!

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Again, why can't you understand simple logic?

[size=20] Yes, Kent's stats in comparison with other players that played his position are important. But there are many elements that go into deciding whether or not a player is hall of fame worthy. Included in that are defense, how good he was in his own era, and winning.
[/size]

for all the new posters out there, read timo's last post, when someone posts silly smilies and types in big bold letters that pretty much means he knows he lost the argument, i made timo look stupid with the mattingly point, i threw that sh*t back right in his face and he didn't even mention it! he says winning is important which it isn't, he also uses defense in his argument which isn't a bad point but mike piazza doesn't throw out runners and isn't considered a good defensive catcher but he's a hall of famer, timo timo timo, your last post was quite sad!!!

Do you know why I ignored your Mattingly post? Because it wasn't the point of the argument. I don't want to get into two seperate arguments.

Right now, mattingly is borderline. If he won a world series, he'd probably get in. If you want to talk about longevity being important for the HOF, look at Sandy koufax.

Quote:
 
he says winning is important which it isn't

Of course it is! That's why they play the games!

The Hall Of Fame is not a fantasy baseball hall of fame. It's a hall of baseball immortality. It takes a lot more than stats to get in.

If stats are all that matters, why is Ozzie Smith there?


And Justin, you completely ignored the point about a player in comparison to other great players of his era.

don mattingly winning a ring is not going to change anything, NOTHING, he's not in the HOF cause his career was cut short by injury, that's it, nothing else! koufax was way different, he dominated when he pitched, low ERA's, wins, the whole thing, it's a totally different situation than mattingly! what i'm saying is the writers in the hall of fame will look at numbers compared to other 2nd baseman rather than numbers from players in the same era, again i bring up piazza, it's the same sh*t!!!

Again, they do not look at only one specific thing (in this case, his stats compared to other second basemen). They'll look at the entire package, which includes many other factors.
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Zidanman
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timotime
Mar 20 2005, 09:21 AM
TheOne
Mar 20 2005, 10:02 AM
timotime
Mar 20 2005, 08:53 AM
TheOne
Mar 20 2005, 08:54 AM
both alomar and kent are hall of famers but both can.................................


go f*ck themselves!!! :peace:

Kent is NOT a hall of famer. You don't just put every great player in the hall of fame. Kent isn't even close to being the all around play Alomar was, not to mention the fact that kent never won anything.

Kent will get in the HOF, he's puts up great numbers for his position (2nd base), especially in the homerun department, not too many 2nd baseman in the history of mlb were homerun hitters so kent will get in, he was a former mvp as well so stop the bullsh*t!!!

An MVP award is no indication of a Hall of Famer.

Are Larry Walker, Chipper Jones, Juan Gonzalez, Ken Caminiti, Mo Vaughn, and George Bell hall of famers? No. Are all great players? Of course.

Kent is a one-dimensional player.

kent has never won anything.

Is there one specific moment you remember Kent for? One specific homerun?

The hall of fame is for baseball immortality. I just don't put Kent in that category. You can't put every great player in the hall of fame.

walker is a hall of famer in my book. the glove, the arm, the average, and the on base. even for Colorado, he was and is underrated. injuries hampered him a but, but still, the resume is deserving:

.314 368 HRS 1259 RBI 1289 R 228 SB .401 OBP .568 SLG .969 OPS

as for the rest, only chipper has a shot if he regains his stroke and puts up numbers again
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Zidanman
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my opinion on kent being a hof, fairly or not, will emerge from what he does in los angeles. if he finds a way to still produce, now that he doesn't have bonds or the nice stadium in houston, and shows his skills off as he has for the past years, i will definitely think more highly of him than ever before. hitting in la is not easy. if he goes .290 and puts up close to 30 dingers yet again and is a big part of getting the dodgers close to the division, im making him a hall of famer
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Zidanman
Mar 20 2005, 08:55 PM
my opinion on kent being a hof, fairly or not, will emerge from what he does in los angeles. if he finds a way to still produce, now that he doesn't have bonds or the nice stadium in houston, and shows his skills off as he has for the past years, i will definitely think more highly of him than ever before. hitting in la is not easy. if he goes .290 and puts up close to 30 dingers yet again and is a big part of getting the dodgers close to the division, im making him a hall of famer

fair enough!!!
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since this is pretty good to debate about. how about this question

who's more deserving of the hall of fame- jeff bagwell or raffy palmeiro? and are they both first ballot hofs?

i say bagwell has been overlooked a lot for how great he was in his prime. the guy wiill end his career batting around .300 with near 500 HRS, a great glove, a great leader, and some ridiculous seasons in a pitcher's park, the Astrodome

as for palmeiro. he's definitely a hof, but he was more consistant than dominating.

both deserve first ballot hof if you ask me. i know people dont think of bagwell highly sometimes for whatever reasons
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TheOne
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Zidanman
Mar 20 2005, 11:35 PM
since this is pretty good to debate about. how about this question

who's more deserving of the hall of fame- jeff bagwell or raffy palmeiro? and are they both first ballot hofs?

i say bagwell has been overlooked a lot for how great he was in his prime. the guy wiill end his career batting around .300 with near 500 HRS, a great glove, a great leader, and some ridiculous seasons in a pitcher's park, the Astrodome

as for palmeiro. he's definitely a hof, but he was more consistant than dominating.

both deserve first ballot hof if you ask me. i know people dont think of bagwell highly sometimes for whatever reasons

you bring up some interesting points, both IMO are 1st ballot hall of famers as well, bagwell is on his way to 500 homeruns and palmeiro already has 552 homeruns and close to 3000 hits! the thing with both players is they have been consistent throughout their careers, they both put up consistent numbers year after year! a guy like fred mcgriff is more of a question mark, he has hit close to 500 homeruns and a little under 2500 hits, i don't think he's a hall of famer by the way!!!
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TheOne
Mar 20 2005, 11:46 PM
Zidanman
Mar 20 2005, 11:35 PM
since this is pretty good to debate about. how about this question

who's more deserving of the hall of fame- jeff bagwell or raffy palmeiro? and are they both first ballot hofs?

i say bagwell has been overlooked a lot for how great he was in his prime. the guy wiill end his career batting around .300 with near 500 HRS, a great glove, a great leader, and some ridiculous seasons in a pitcher's park, the Astrodome

as for palmeiro. he's definitely a hof, but he was more consistant than dominating.

both deserve first ballot hof if you ask me. i know people dont think of bagwell highly sometimes for whatever reasons

you bring up some interesting points, both IMO are 1st ballot hall of famers as well, bagwell is on his way to 500 homeruns and palmeiro already has 552 homeruns and close to 3000 hits! the thing with both players is they have been consistent throughout their careers, they both put up consistent numbers year after year! a guy like fred mcgriff is more of a question mark, he has hit close to 500 homeruns and a little under 2500 hits, i don't think he's a hall of famer by the way!!!

mcgriff? interesting. he was very good for the jays, padres, and braves. i mean, its hard to properly analyze a guy sometimes when your best memories are of them washed up. let me get the stats on him completely
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im going to say yes after seeing his years. there was just a lot of consistancy and good years. he even had a solid year two seasons ago with the devil rays and cubs.

mcgriff
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Zidanman
Mar 21 2005, 12:05 AM
im going to say yes after seeing his years. there was just a lot of consistancy and good years. he even had a solid year two seasons ago with the devil rays and cubs.

mcgriff

i don't think the writers will vote him in, he didn't reach 500 homeruns so that doesn't help things!!!
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Mar 21 2005, 12:08 AM
Zidanman
Mar 21 2005, 12:05 AM
im going to say yes after seeing his years. there was just a lot of consistancy and good years. he even had a solid year two seasons ago with the devil rays and cubs.

mcgriff

i don't think the writers will vote him in, he didn't reach 500 homeruns so that doesn't help things!!!

a class guy too, right? i think he's gotta be in. he was a career .305 playoff hitter as well. i always considered him to be pretty clutch
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Something that hurts McGriff is not being able to be associated with any specific team.

If I had a vote, I'd probably vote for McGriff.
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i personally wouldn't vote for mcgriff, it's close though!!!
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Mar 21 2005, 10:38 AM
i personally wouldn't vote for mcgriff, it's close though!!!

come on, give it to the man. very very good career. and considering he was a good individual, that puts him over the top for me. unfortunate that him being traded to san diego cost him a shot at a couple other world series. he was clutch though when he did play in the playoffs. i remember him doing some damage off the yanks in the 96 world series.
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Mar 22 2005, 03:38 PM
TheOne
Mar 21 2005, 10:38 AM
i personally wouldn't vote for mcgriff, it's close though!!!

come on, give it to the man. very very good career. and considering he was a good individual, that puts him over the top for me. unfortunate that him being traded to san diego cost him a shot at a couple other world series. he was clutch though when he did play in the playoffs. i remember him doing some damage off the yanks in the 96 world series.

i just don't see him as a hall of famer, his numbers are impressive but when comparing other 1st baseman or when looking for one milestone mcgriff doesn't have it, just like canseco, the 500 homerun milestone is big!!!
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timotime
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Mar 22 2005, 08:17 PM
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Mar 22 2005, 03:38 PM
TheOne
Mar 21 2005, 10:38 AM
i personally wouldn't vote for mcgriff, it's close though!!!

come on, give it to the man. very very good career. and considering he was a good individual, that puts him over the top for me. unfortunate that him being traded to san diego cost him a shot at a couple other world series. he was clutch though when he did play in the playoffs. i remember him doing some damage off the yanks in the 96 world series.

i just don't see him as a hall of famer, his numbers are impressive but when comparing other 1st baseman or when looking for one milestone mcgriff doesn't have it, just like canseco, the 500 homerun milestone is big!!!

Remember, a nice amount of McGriff's homeruns were hit before the explosion in power began.

Plus, you can't forget the Tom Emanski defensive drills video. That definitely puts him among the baseball immortal.
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TheOne
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timotime
Mar 22 2005, 07:37 PM
TheOne
Mar 22 2005, 08:17 PM
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Mar 22 2005, 03:38 PM
TheOne
Mar 21 2005, 10:38 AM
i personally wouldn't vote for mcgriff, it's close though!!!

come on, give it to the man. very very good career. and considering he was a good individual, that puts him over the top for me. unfortunate that him being traded to san diego cost him a shot at a couple other world series. he was clutch though when he did play in the playoffs. i remember him doing some damage off the yanks in the 96 world series.

i just don't see him as a hall of famer, his numbers are impressive but when comparing other 1st baseman or when looking for one milestone mcgriff doesn't have it, just like canseco, the 500 homerun milestone is big!!!

Remember, a nice amount of McGriff's homeruns were hit before the explosion in power began.

Plus, you can't forget the Tom Emanski defensive drills video. That definitely puts him among the baseball immortal.

:lmao:
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