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Roberto Alomar to retire; At least that's what I read into it.
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Topic Started: Mar 19 2005, 12:05 PM (229 Views)
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Chilli Cheese
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Mar 19 2005, 12:05 PM
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http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-d...ap&type=lgns%20
I still think he will make the HOF.
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timotime
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Mar 19 2005, 12:25 PM
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Say whatever you want about him as a Met, but he's still a HOFer.
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Chilli Cheese
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Mar 19 2005, 02:47 PM
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Roberto Alomar had 200 less AB's than Joe Morgan. These are there comparisons.
Joe Morgan - .271AVG Roberto ALomar - .300AVG
Morgan - 2517 hits Alomar - 2724 hits
Morgan - 1650 runs Alomar - 1508 runs
Morgan - 449 doubles Alomar - 504 doubles
Morgan - 96 triples Alomar - 80 triples
Morgan - 268 HR Alomar - 210 HR
Morgan - 1133 RBI Alomar - 1134 RBI
Morgan - 689 SB Alomar - 474 SB
Morgan - .392 OB% Alomar - .371 OB%
Morgan - .981 FP% Alomar - .984 FP%
In the 10 categorys, Alomar and Morgan are tied at 5. Alomar was the best 2B in the AL from 1991-2001, if not baseball. He's a HOF.
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The Yankee Faithful
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Mar 19 2005, 03:00 PM
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what does this have to do with the Mets? and I guess he has a shot a HOF
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Zidanman
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Mar 19 2005, 09:50 PM
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just wondering for argument's sakes. anyone consider jeff kent a hof? he's put up some damn good stats at the 2b spot for awhile now
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timotime
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Mar 19 2005, 09:54 PM
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- Zidanman
- Mar 19 2005, 09:50 PM
just wondering for argument's sakes. anyone consider jeff kent a hof? he's put up some damn good stats at the 2b spot for awhile now
Not really, considering he was never great defensively and didn't put up the 10 or so consecutive all star seasons of an Alomar. Kent will definitely be remembered as a very good, if not great player, but not every great player can get in.
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Zidanman
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Mar 19 2005, 09:56 PM
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- timotime
- Mar 19 2005, 08:54 PM
- Zidanman
- Mar 19 2005, 09:50 PM
just wondering for argument's sakes. anyone consider jeff kent a hof? he's put up some damn good stats at the 2b spot for awhile now
Not really, considering he was never great defensively and didn't put up the 10 or so consecutive all star seasons of an Alomar. Kent will definitely be remembered as a very good, if not great player, but not every great player can get in.
would you please respond to my lofton post. i posted that i recalled byrd to have been pretty decent as a rookie. you responded how he was average at best. i checked the stats at baseballreference and the guy's stats were rookie of the year caliber, hitting .303 with .362 obp. had dontrelle willis or brandon webb not stolen the thunder, he was ROY.
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timotime
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Mar 19 2005, 09:57 PM
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- Zidanman
- Mar 19 2005, 09:56 PM
- timotime
- Mar 19 2005, 08:54 PM
- Zidanman
- Mar 19 2005, 09:50 PM
just wondering for argument's sakes. anyone consider jeff kent a hof? he's put up some damn good stats at the 2b spot for awhile now
Not really, considering he was never great defensively and didn't put up the 10 or so consecutive all star seasons of an Alomar. Kent will definitely be remembered as a very good, if not great player, but not every great player can get in.
would you please respond to my lofton post. i posted that i recalled byrd to have been pretty decent as a rookie. you responded how he was average at best. i checked the stats at baseballreference and the guy's stats were rookie of the year caliber, hitting .303 with .362 obp. had dontrelle willis or brandon webb not stolen the thunder, he was ROY.
1) Stop obsessing over it. I responded to your Byrd comment in the Valent thread.
2) I'd put Podsednik ahead of Byrd too.
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Zidanman
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Mar 19 2005, 09:57 PM
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- timotime
- Mar 19 2005, 08:54 PM
- Zidanman
- Mar 19 2005, 09:50 PM
just wondering for argument's sakes. anyone consider jeff kent a hof? he's put up some damn good stats at the 2b spot for awhile now
Not really, considering he was never great defensively and didn't put up the 10 or so consecutive all star seasons of an Alomar. Kent will definitely be remembered as a very good, if not great player, but not every great player can get in.
all time leader in home runs for a 2b though, 302 and counting. .289 career hitter. .858 ops, 1200 rbis, 1000 r. hard to knock that, even despite the preceived subpar defense.
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Zidanman
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Mar 19 2005, 10:00 PM
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yeah, pods over him as well, although most scouts and fans know that it was a fluke season for him. im just saying. i hate when people dont admit they are wrong. byrd was far from average at best, that's all i was saying
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timotime
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Mar 19 2005, 10:01 PM
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- Zidanman
- Mar 19 2005, 09:57 PM
- timotime
- Mar 19 2005, 08:54 PM
- Zidanman
- Mar 19 2005, 09:50 PM
just wondering for argument's sakes. anyone consider jeff kent a hof? he's put up some damn good stats at the 2b spot for awhile now
Not really, considering he was never great defensively and didn't put up the 10 or so consecutive all star seasons of an Alomar. Kent will definitely be remembered as a very good, if not great player, but not every great player can get in.
all time leader in home runs for a 2b though, 302 and counting. .289 career hitter. .858 ops, 1200 rbis, 1000 r. hard to knock that, even despite the preceived subpar defense.
I looked at his stats before making that post. I'm not trying to say he isn't a great player, I'm just saying that I don't consider him to be a hall of fame caliber player. There are plenty of great players that aren't in the hall of fame. Keith hernandez is arguably the best defensive 1b of all time. Jim Rice was one of the better hitters of his era. Bert Blyleven accumulated a ton of wins.
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Zidanman
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Mar 19 2005, 10:03 PM
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yes, i know. but i mean, kents putting up a resume comparable, if not better than morgan and alomar. thats why i mentioned it. personally, i would not vote kent in as a hall of famer, but i think he's borderline and deserves to be recognized
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timotime
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Mar 19 2005, 10:07 PM
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- Zidanman
- Mar 19 2005, 10:00 PM
yeah, pods over him as well, although most scouts and fans know that it was a fluke season for him. im just saying. i hate when people dont admit they are wrong. byrd was far from average at best, that's all i was saying
Yeah, it was a fluke season, although he is a great baserunner. The most amazing thing is that he wasn't even a prospet. They picked him off waivers from the Seattle Mariners.
Read my post in the Valent thread.
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TheOne
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Mar 20 2005, 08:54 AM
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I'm still better than you!
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both alomar and kent are hall of famers but both can.................................
go f*ck themselves!!! :peace:
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timotime
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Mar 20 2005, 09:53 AM
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- TheOne
- Mar 20 2005, 08:54 AM
both alomar and kent are hall of famers but both can................................. go f*ck themselves!!! :peace:
Kent is NOT a hall of famer. You don't just put every great player in the hall of fame. Kent isn't even close to being the all around play Alomar was, not to mention the fact that kent never won anything.
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TheOne
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Mar 20 2005, 10:02 AM
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I'm still better than you!
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- timotime
- Mar 20 2005, 08:53 AM
- TheOne
- Mar 20 2005, 08:54 AM
both alomar and kent are hall of famers but both can................................. go f*ck themselves!!! :peace:
Kent is NOT a hall of famer. You don't just put every great player in the hall of fame. Kent isn't even close to being the all around play Alomar was, not to mention the fact that kent never won anything.
Kent will get in the HOF, he's puts up great numbers for his position (2nd base), especially in the homerun department, not too many 2nd baseman in the history of mlb were homerun hitters so kent will get in, he was a former mvp as well so stop the bullsh*t!!!
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timotime
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Mar 20 2005, 10:21 AM
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- TheOne
- Mar 20 2005, 10:02 AM
- timotime
- Mar 20 2005, 08:53 AM
- TheOne
- Mar 20 2005, 08:54 AM
both alomar and kent are hall of famers but both can................................. go f*ck themselves!!! :peace:
Kent is NOT a hall of famer. You don't just put every great player in the hall of fame. Kent isn't even close to being the all around play Alomar was, not to mention the fact that kent never won anything.
Kent will get in the HOF, he's puts up great numbers for his position (2nd base), especially in the homerun department, not too many 2nd baseman in the history of mlb were homerun hitters so kent will get in, he was a former mvp as well so stop the bullsh*t!!!
An MVP award is no indication of a Hall of Famer.
Are Larry Walker, Chipper Jones, Juan Gonzalez, Ken Caminiti, Mo Vaughn, and George Bell hall of famers? No. Are all great players? Of course.
Kent is a one-dimensional player.
kent has never won anything.
Is there one specific moment you remember Kent for? One specific homerun?
The hall of fame is for baseball immortality. I just don't put Kent in that category. You can't put every great player in the hall of fame.
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VICTORious
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Mar 20 2005, 12:27 PM
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i think larry should be a hall of famer
chipper is on the bubble as is alomar, but kent is definatly not a hofer
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Ray
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Mar 20 2005, 12:37 PM
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Army Strong
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LOL, Kent is not a Hall of Famer.
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timotime
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Mar 20 2005, 12:38 PM
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- Mr. Sunshine
- Mar 20 2005, 12:27 PM
i think larry should be a hall of famer
chipper is on the bubble as is alomar, but kent is definatly not a hofer
I disagree on Larry Walker. I don't think you can argue "If he wasn't always injured..." Durability is part of a great player.
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Chilli Cheese
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Mar 20 2005, 01:19 PM
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- Metsfan4life
- Mar 20 2005, 11:37 AM
LOL, Kent is not a Hall of Famer.
agreed!
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TheOne
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Mar 20 2005, 05:38 PM
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I'm still better than you!
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- timotime
- Mar 20 2005, 09:21 AM
- TheOne
- Mar 20 2005, 10:02 AM
- timotime
- Mar 20 2005, 08:53 AM
- TheOne
- Mar 20 2005, 08:54 AM
both alomar and kent are hall of famers but both can................................. go f*ck themselves!!! :peace:
Kent is NOT a hall of famer. You don't just put every great player in the hall of fame. Kent isn't even close to being the all around play Alomar was, not to mention the fact that kent never won anything.
Kent will get in the HOF, he's puts up great numbers for his position (2nd base), especially in the homerun department, not too many 2nd baseman in the history of mlb were homerun hitters so kent will get in, he was a former mvp as well so stop the bullsh*t!!!
An MVP award is no indication of a Hall of Famer. Are Larry Walker, Chipper Jones, Juan Gonzalez, Ken Caminiti, Mo Vaughn, and George Bell hall of famers? No. Are all great players? Of course. Kent is a one-dimensional player. kent has never won anything. Is there one specific moment you remember Kent for? One specific homerun? The hall of fame is for baseball immortality. I just don't put Kent in that category. You can't put every great player in the hall of fame.
what does winning have to do with anything, barry bonds hasn't won a ring his whole f*cking career, it's about stats not f*cking how your team does, yes he's a purely offensive player but you compare kent's stats to other HOF 2nd baseman and this is what you will see:
HOF 2nd Baseman (scroll down)
i couldn't copy and paste the stats cause the internet is gay but the 2nd baseman with the most homeruns is rogers hornsby with 301, kent already has him beat with 302 homeruns and kent will mostly likely play 3 more years! remember when players are voted in, they are judged by their numbers compared to other players that have played the same position, why is piazza going in the hall of fame, if he wasn't a catcher and had the same numbers he has now and playing another position he wouldn't get in, same situation with kent! here's kent's career numbers so far:
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
1777 6604 1039 1910 438 42 302 1207 592 1255 86 52 .289 .352 .505 .858
kent will end up with about 400 homeruns, 1500 rbi's, over 2000 hits, 1200 runs, he already has a career batting average of .289 and a career slugging percentage of .505 which would rank 2nd among 2nd baseman in the hall of fame, oh and one more thing, when you argue with me remember to bring facts and stats to backup your argument not bullsh*t!!!
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timotime
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Mar 20 2005, 05:43 PM
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- TheOne
- Mar 20 2005, 05:38 PM
- timotime
- Mar 20 2005, 09:21 AM
- TheOne
- Mar 20 2005, 10:02 AM
- timotime
- Mar 20 2005, 08:53 AM
- TheOne
- Mar 20 2005, 08:54 AM
both alomar and kent are hall of famers but both can................................. go f*ck themselves!!! :peace:
Kent is NOT a hall of famer. You don't just put every great player in the hall of fame. Kent isn't even close to being the all around play Alomar was, not to mention the fact that kent never won anything.
Kent will get in the HOF, he's puts up great numbers for his position (2nd base), especially in the homerun department, not too many 2nd baseman in the history of mlb were homerun hitters so kent will get in, he was a former mvp as well so stop the bullsh*t!!!
An MVP award is no indication of a Hall of Famer. Are Larry Walker, Chipper Jones, Juan Gonzalez, Ken Caminiti, Mo Vaughn, and George Bell hall of famers? No. Are all great players? Of course. Kent is a one-dimensional player. kent has never won anything. Is there one specific moment you remember Kent for? One specific homerun? The hall of fame is for baseball immortality. I just don't put Kent in that category. You can't put every great player in the hall of fame.
what does winning have to do with anything, barry bonds hasn't won a ring his whole f*cking career, it's about stats not f*cking how your team does, yes he's a purely offensive player but you compare kent's stats to other HOF 2nd baseman and this is what you will see: HOF 2nd Basemani couldn't copy and paste the stats cause the internet is gay but the 2nd baseman with the most homeruns is rogers hornsby with 301, kent already has him beat with 302 homeruns and kent will mostly likely play 3 more years! remember when players are voted in, they are judged by their numbers compared to other players that have played the same position, why is piazza going in the hall of fame, if he wasn't a catcher and had the same numbers he has now and playing another position he wouldn't get in, same situation with kent! here's kent's career numbers so far: G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS 1777 6604 1039 1910 438 42 302 1207 592 1255 86 52 .289 .352 .505 .858 kent will end up with about 400 homeruns, 1500 rbi's, over 2000 hits, 1200 runs, he already has a career batting average of .289 and a career slugging percentage of .505 which would rank 2nd among 2nd baseman in the hall of fame, oh and one more thing, when you argue with me remember to bring facts and stats to backup your argument not bullsh*t!!!
It isn't just about stats. This isn't a fantasy baseball hall of fame. And I don't see what the hell Barry Bonds has to do with this argument.
Rogers Hornsby was one of the greatest players of his era. That can definitely not be said of Jeff Kent.
Jeff Kent is also a one dimensional player, and as a middle infielder that's definitey going to be looked at.
This isn't just about offensive production. It's about the complete package, which includes defense, winning, and how he compares to the other great players of his era.
Again, I'm not trying to say Jeff Kent isn't a great player. I'm just saying that he isn't a HOFer. There's a huge difference.
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TheOne
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Mar 20 2005, 05:53 PM
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I'm still better than you!
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- timotime
- Mar 20 2005, 04:43 PM
- TheOne
- Mar 20 2005, 05:38 PM
- timotime
- Mar 20 2005, 09:21 AM
- TheOne
- Mar 20 2005, 10:02 AM
- timotime
- Mar 20 2005, 08:53 AM
- TheOne
- Mar 20 2005, 08:54 AM
both alomar and kent are hall of famers but both can................................. go f*ck themselves!!! :peace:
Kent is NOT a hall of famer. You don't just put every great player in the hall of fame. Kent isn't even close to being the all around play Alomar was, not to mention the fact that kent never won anything.
Kent will get in the HOF, he's puts up great numbers for his position (2nd base), especially in the homerun department, not too many 2nd baseman in the history of mlb were homerun hitters so kent will get in, he was a former mvp as well so stop the bullsh*t!!!
An MVP award is no indication of a Hall of Famer. Are Larry Walker, Chipper Jones, Juan Gonzalez, Ken Caminiti, Mo Vaughn, and George Bell hall of famers? No. Are all great players? Of course. Kent is a one-dimensional player. kent has never won anything. Is there one specific moment you remember Kent for? One specific homerun? The hall of fame is for baseball immortality. I just don't put Kent in that category. You can't put every great player in the hall of fame.
what does winning have to do with anything, barry bonds hasn't won a ring his whole f*cking career, it's about stats not f*cking how your team does, yes he's a purely offensive player but you compare kent's stats to other HOF 2nd baseman and this is what you will see: HOF 2nd Basemani couldn't copy and paste the stats cause the internet is gay but the 2nd baseman with the most homeruns is rogers hornsby with 301, kent already has him beat with 302 homeruns and kent will mostly likely play 3 more years! remember when players are voted in, they are judged by their numbers compared to other players that have played the same position, why is piazza going in the hall of fame, if he wasn't a catcher and had the same numbers he has now and playing another position he wouldn't get in, same situation with kent! here's kent's career numbers so far: G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS 1777 6604 1039 1910 438 42 302 1207 592 1255 86 52 .289 .352 .505 .858 kent will end up with about 400 homeruns, 1500 rbi's, over 2000 hits, 1200 runs, he already has a career batting average of .289 and a career slugging percentage of .505 which would rank 2nd among 2nd baseman in the hall of fame, oh and one more thing, when you argue with me remember to bring facts and stats to backup your argument not bullsh*t!!!
It isn't just about stats. This isn't a fantasy baseball hall of fame. And I don't see what the hell Barry Bonds has to do with this argument. Rogers Hornsby was one of the greatest players of his era. That can definitely not be said of Jeff Kent. Jeff Kent is also a one dimensional player, and as a middle infielder that's definitey going to be looked at. This isn't just about offensive production. It's about the complete package, which includes defense, winning, and how he compares to the other great players of his era. Again, I'm not trying to say Jeff Kent isn't a great player. I'm just saying that he isn't a HOFer. There's a huge difference.
timo please, there you go, arguing with silly points, WINNING DOES NOT MATTER, with the baseball hall of fame it is all about stats, that's the way it's always been, this isn't the nba or nfl, stats mean everything in baseball! look maybe the hall of fame won't vote him in, it's quite possible, he's one of the more on the bubble guys (not to me though) but the stats backup my argument, there's no other way around it!!!
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timotime
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Mar 20 2005, 06:03 PM
Post #25
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- TheOne
- Mar 20 2005, 05:53 PM
- timotime
- Mar 20 2005, 04:43 PM
- TheOne
- Mar 20 2005, 05:38 PM
- timotime
- Mar 20 2005, 09:21 AM
- TheOne
- Mar 20 2005, 10:02 AM
- timotime
- Mar 20 2005, 08:53 AM
- TheOne
- Mar 20 2005, 08:54 AM
both alomar and kent are hall of famers but both can................................. go f*ck themselves!!! :peace:
Kent is NOT a hall of famer. You don't just put every great player in the hall of fame. Kent isn't even close to being the all around play Alomar was, not to mention the fact that kent never won anything.
Kent will get in the HOF, he's puts up great numbers for his position (2nd base), especially in the homerun department, not too many 2nd baseman in the history of mlb were homerun hitters so kent will get in, he was a former mvp as well so stop the bullsh*t!!!
An MVP award is no indication of a Hall of Famer. Are Larry Walker, Chipper Jones, Juan Gonzalez, Ken Caminiti, Mo Vaughn, and George Bell hall of famers? No. Are all great players? Of course. Kent is a one-dimensional player. kent has never won anything. Is there one specific moment you remember Kent for? One specific homerun? The hall of fame is for baseball immortality. I just don't put Kent in that category. You can't put every great player in the hall of fame.
what does winning have to do with anything, barry bonds hasn't won a ring his whole f*cking career, it's about stats not f*cking how your team does, yes he's a purely offensive player but you compare kent's stats to other HOF 2nd baseman and this is what you will see: HOF 2nd Basemani couldn't copy and paste the stats cause the internet is gay but the 2nd baseman with the most homeruns is rogers hornsby with 301, kent already has him beat with 302 homeruns and kent will mostly likely play 3 more years! remember when players are voted in, they are judged by their numbers compared to other players that have played the same position, why is piazza going in the hall of fame, if he wasn't a catcher and had the same numbers he has now and playing another position he wouldn't get in, same situation with kent! here's kent's career numbers so far: G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS 1777 6604 1039 1910 438 42 302 1207 592 1255 86 52 .289 .352 .505 .858 kent will end up with about 400 homeruns, 1500 rbi's, over 2000 hits, 1200 runs, he already has a career batting average of .289 and a career slugging percentage of .505 which would rank 2nd among 2nd baseman in the hall of fame, oh and one more thing, when you argue with me remember to bring facts and stats to backup your argument not bullsh*t!!!
It isn't just about stats. This isn't a fantasy baseball hall of fame. And I don't see what the hell Barry Bonds has to do with this argument. Rogers Hornsby was one of the greatest players of his era. That can definitely not be said of Jeff Kent. Jeff Kent is also a one dimensional player, and as a middle infielder that's definitey going to be looked at. This isn't just about offensive production. It's about the complete package, which includes defense, winning, and how he compares to the other great players of his era. Again, I'm not trying to say Jeff Kent isn't a great player. I'm just saying that he isn't a HOFer. There's a huge difference.
timo please, there you go, arguing with silly points, WINNING DOES NOT MATTER, with the baseball hall of fame it is all about stats, that's the way it's always been, this isn't the nba or nfl, stats mean everything in baseball! look maybe the hall of fame won't vote him in, it's quite possible, he's one of the more on the bubble guys (not to me though) but the stats backup my argument, there's no other way around it!!!
The stats do not back up your argument. Compare his stats (.289 average, 302 homeruns) to the other great players of his era. Not even close.
Now, I understand that different numbers are to be expected of a secondbaseman. So, I would be a bit more forgivng of kent...except for the fact that he was never a good defensive player.
And yes, winning does matter. it isn't the only thing, but it does matter. If Don Mattingly won a world series, don't you think he would definitely be a HOFer?
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TheOne
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Mar 20 2005, 06:08 PM
Post #26
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I'm still better than you!
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both alomar and kent are hall of famers but both can................................. go f*ck themselves!!! :peace:
Kent is NOT a hall of famer. You don't just put every great player in the hall of fame. Kent isn't even close to being the all around play Alomar was, not to mention the fact that kent never won anything.
Kent will get in the HOF, he's puts up great numbers for his position (2nd base), especially in the homerun department, not too many 2nd baseman in the history of mlb were homerun hitters so kent will get in, he was a former mvp as well so stop the bullsh*t!!!
An MVP award is no indication of a Hall of Famer. Are Larry Walker, Chipper Jones, Juan Gonzalez, Ken Caminiti, Mo Vaughn, and George Bell hall of famers? No. Are all great players? Of course. Kent is a one-dimensional player. kent has never won anything. Is there one specific moment you remember Kent for? One specific homerun? The hall of fame is for baseball immortality. I just don't put Kent in that category. You can't put every great player in the hall of fame.
what does winning have to do with anything, barry bonds hasn't won a ring his whole f*cking career, it's about stats not f*cking how your team does, yes he's a purely offensive player but you compare kent's stats to other HOF 2nd baseman and this is what you will see: HOF 2nd Basemani couldn't copy and paste the stats cause the internet is gay but the 2nd baseman with the most homeruns is rogers hornsby with 301, kent already has him beat with 302 homeruns and kent will mostly likely play 3 more years! remember when players are voted in, they are judged by their numbers compared to other players that have played the same position, why is piazza going in the hall of fame, if he wasn't a catcher and had the same numbers he has now and playing another position he wouldn't get in, same situation with kent! here's kent's career numbers so far: G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS 1777 6604 1039 1910 438 42 302 1207 592 1255 86 52 .289 .352 .505 .858 kent will end up with about 400 homeruns, 1500 rbi's, over 2000 hits, 1200 runs, he already has a career batting average of .289 and a career slugging percentage of .505 which would rank 2nd among 2nd baseman in the hall of fame, oh and one more thing, when you argue with me remember to bring facts and stats to backup your argument not bullsh*t!!!
It isn't just about stats. This isn't a fantasy baseball hall of fame. And I don't see what the hell Barry Bonds has to do with this argument. Rogers Hornsby was one of the greatest players of his era. That can definitely not be said of Jeff Kent. Jeff Kent is also a one dimensional player, and as a middle infielder that's definitey going to be looked at. This isn't just about offensive production. It's about the complete package, which includes defense, winning, and how he compares to the other great players of his era. Again, I'm not trying to say Jeff Kent isn't a great player. I'm just saying that he isn't a HOFer. There's a huge difference.
timo please, there you go, arguing with silly points, WINNING DOES NOT MATTER, with the baseball hall of fame it is all about stats, that's the way it's always been, this isn't the nba or nfl, stats mean everything in baseball! look maybe the hall of fame won't vote him in, it's quite possible, he's one of the more on the bubble guys (not to me though) but the stats backup my argument, there's no other way around it!!!
The stats do not back up your argument. Compare his stats (.289 average, 302 homeruns) to the other great players of his era. Not even close. Now, I understand that different numbers are to be expected of a secondbaseman. So, I would be a bit more forgivng of kent...except for the fact that he was never a good defensive player. And yes, winning does matter. it isn't the only thing, but it does matter. If Don Mattingly won a world series, don't you think he would definitely be a HOFer?
NO
don mattingly didn't go into the hall of fame cause he only had 5 good years as a player, the back injury he had cut short his career, timo it's not about kent's numbers compared to other players from his ERA, it's about his numbers compared to all other 2nd baseman!!!
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timotime
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Mar 20 2005, 06:11 PM
Post #27
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both alomar and kent are hall of famers but both can................................. go f*ck themselves!!! :peace:
Kent is NOT a hall of famer. You don't just put every great player in the hall of fame. Kent isn't even close to being the all around play Alomar was, not to mention the fact that kent never won anything.
Kent will get in the HOF, he's puts up great numbers for his position (2nd base), especially in the homerun department, not too many 2nd baseman in the history of mlb were homerun hitters so kent will get in, he was a former mvp as well so stop the bullsh*t!!!
An MVP award is no indication of a Hall of Famer. Are Larry Walker, Chipper Jones, Juan Gonzalez, Ken Caminiti, Mo Vaughn, and George Bell hall of famers? No. Are all great players? Of course. Kent is a one-dimensional player. kent has never won anything. Is there one specific moment you remember Kent for? One specific homerun? The hall of fame is for baseball immortality. I just don't put Kent in that category. You can't put every great player in the hall of fame.
what does winning have to do with anything, barry bonds hasn't won a ring his whole f*cking career, it's about stats not f*cking how your team does, yes he's a purely offensive player but you compare kent's stats to other HOF 2nd baseman and this is what you will see: HOF 2nd Basemani couldn't copy and paste the stats cause the internet is gay but the 2nd baseman with the most homeruns is rogers hornsby with 301, kent already has him beat with 302 homeruns and kent will mostly likely play 3 more years! remember when players are voted in, they are judged by their numbers compared to other players that have played the same position, why is piazza going in the hall of fame, if he wasn't a catcher and had the same numbers he has now and playing another position he wouldn't get in, same situation with kent! here's kent's career numbers so far: G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS 1777 6604 1039 1910 438 42 302 1207 592 1255 86 52 .289 .352 .505 .858 kent will end up with about 400 homeruns, 1500 rbi's, over 2000 hits, 1200 runs, he already has a career batting average of .289 and a career slugging percentage of .505 which would rank 2nd among 2nd baseman in the hall of fame, oh and one more thing, when you argue with me remember to bring facts and stats to backup your argument not bullsh*t!!!
It isn't just about stats. This isn't a fantasy baseball hall of fame. And I don't see what the hell Barry Bonds has to do with this argument. Rogers Hornsby was one of the greatest players of his era. That can definitely not be said of Jeff Kent. Jeff Kent is also a one dimensional player, and as a middle infielder that's definitey going to be looked at. This isn't just about offensive production. It's about the complete package, which includes defense, winning, and how he compares to the other great players of his era. Again, I'm not trying to say Jeff Kent isn't a great player. I'm just saying that he isn't a HOFer. There's a huge difference.
timo please, there you go, arguing with silly points, WINNING DOES NOT MATTER, with the baseball hall of fame it is all about stats, that's the way it's always been, this isn't the nba or nfl, stats mean everything in baseball! look maybe the hall of fame won't vote him in, it's quite possible, he's one of the more on the bubble guys (not to me though) but the stats backup my argument, there's no other way around it!!!
The stats do not back up your argument. Compare his stats (.289 average, 302 homeruns) to the other great players of his era. Not even close. Now, I understand that different numbers are to be expected of a secondbaseman. So, I would be a bit more forgivng of kent...except for the fact that he was never a good defensive player. And yes, winning does matter. it isn't the only thing, but it does matter. If Don Mattingly won a world series, don't you think he would definitely be a HOFer?
NO don mattingly didn't go into the hall of fame cause he only had 5 good years as a player, the back injury he had cut short his career, timo it's not about kent's numbers compared to other players from his ERA, it's about his numbers compared to all other 2nd baseman!!!
:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
Again, why can't you understand simple logic?
[size=20] Yes, Kent's stats in comparison with other players that played his position are important. But there are many elements that go into deciding whether or not a player is hall of fame worthy. Included in that are defense, how good he was in his own era, and winning. [/size]
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TheOne
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Mar 20 2005, 06:17 PM
Post #28
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I'm still better than you!
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both alomar and kent are hall of famers but both can................................. go f*ck themselves!!! :peace:
Kent is NOT a hall of famer. You don't just put every great player in the hall of fame. Kent isn't even close to being the all around play Alomar was, not to mention the fact that kent never won anything.
Kent will get in the HOF, he's puts up great numbers for his position (2nd base), especially in the homerun department, not too many 2nd baseman in the history of mlb were homerun hitters so kent will get in, he was a former mvp as well so stop the bullsh*t!!!
An MVP award is no indication of a Hall of Famer. Are Larry Walker, Chipper Jones, Juan Gonzalez, Ken Caminiti, Mo Vaughn, and George Bell hall of famers? No. Are all great players? Of course. Kent is a one-dimensional player. kent has never won anything. Is there one specific moment you remember Kent for? One specific homerun? The hall of fame is for baseball immortality. I just don't put Kent in that category. You can't put every great player in the hall of fame.
what does winning have to do with anything, barry bonds hasn't won a ring his whole f*cking career, it's about stats not f*cking how your team does, yes he's a purely offensive player but you compare kent's stats to other HOF 2nd baseman and this is what you will see: HOF 2nd Basemani couldn't copy and paste the stats cause the internet is gay but the 2nd baseman with the most homeruns is rogers hornsby with 301, kent already has him beat with 302 homeruns and kent will mostly likely play 3 more years! remember when players are voted in, they are judged by their numbers compared to other players that have played the same position, why is piazza going in the hall of fame, if he wasn't a catcher and had the same numbers he has now and playing another position he wouldn't get in, same situation with kent! here's kent's career numbers so far: G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS 1777 6604 1039 1910 438 42 302 1207 592 1255 86 52 .289 .352 .505 .858 kent will end up with about 400 homeruns, 1500 rbi's, over 2000 hits, 1200 runs, he already has a career batting average of .289 and a career slugging percentage of .505 which would rank 2nd among 2nd baseman in the hall of fame, oh and one more thing, when you argue with me remember to bring facts and stats to backup your argument not bullsh*t!!!
It isn't just about stats. This isn't a fantasy baseball hall of fame. And I don't see what the hell Barry Bonds has to do with this argument. Rogers Hornsby was one of the greatest players of his era. That can definitely not be said of Jeff Kent. Jeff Kent is also a one dimensional player, and as a middle infielder that's definitey going to be looked at. This isn't just about offensive production. It's about the complete package, which includes defense, winning, and how he compares to the other great players of his era. Again, I'm not trying to say Jeff Kent isn't a great player. I'm just saying that he isn't a HOFer. There's a huge difference.
timo please, there you go, arguing with silly points, WINNING DOES NOT MATTER, with the baseball hall of fame it is all about stats, that's the way it's always been, this isn't the nba or nfl, stats mean everything in baseball! look maybe the hall of fame won't vote him in, it's quite possible, he's one of the more on the bubble guys (not to me though) but the stats backup my argument, there's no other way around it!!!
The stats do not back up your argument. Compare his stats (.289 average, 302 homeruns) to the other great players of his era. Not even close. Now, I understand that different numbers are to be expected of a secondbaseman. So, I would be a bit more forgivng of kent...except for the fact that he was never a good defensive player. And yes, winning does matter. it isn't the only thing, but it does matter. If Don Mattingly won a world series, don't you think he would definitely be a HOFer?
NO don mattingly didn't go into the hall of fame cause he only had 5 good years as a player, the back injury he had cut short his career, timo it's not about kent's numbers compared to other players from his ERA, it's about his numbers compared to all other 2nd baseman!!! :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: Again, why can't you understand simple logic? [size=20] Yes, Kent's stats in comparison with other players that played his position are important. But there are many elements that go into deciding whether or not a player is hall of fame worthy. Included in that are defense, how good he was in his own era, and winning. [/size]
for all the new posters out there, read timo's last post, when someone posts silly smilies and types in big bold letters that pretty much means he knows he lost the argument, i made timo look stupid with the mattingly point, i threw that sh*t back right in his face and he didn't even mention it! he says winning is important which it isn't, he also uses defense in his argument which isn't a bad point but mike piazza doesn't throw out runners and isn't considered a good defensive catcher but he's a hall of famer, timo timo timo, your last post was quite sad!!!
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timotime
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Mar 20 2005, 06:26 PM
Post #29
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both alomar and kent are hall of famers but both can................................. go f*ck themselves!!! :peace:
Kent is NOT a hall of famer. You don't just put every great player in the hall of fame. Kent isn't even close to being the all around play Alomar was, not to mention the fact that kent never won anything.
Kent will get in the HOF, he's puts up great numbers for his position (2nd base), especially in the homerun department, not too many 2nd baseman in the history of mlb were homerun hitters so kent will get in, he was a former mvp as well so stop the bullsh*t!!!
An MVP award is no indication of a Hall of Famer. Are Larry Walker, Chipper Jones, Juan Gonzalez, Ken Caminiti, Mo Vaughn, and George Bell hall of famers? No. Are all great players? Of course. Kent is a one-dimensional player. kent has never won anything. Is there one specific moment you remember Kent for? One specific homerun? The hall of fame is for baseball immortality. I just don't put Kent in that category. You can't put every great player in the hall of fame.
what does winning have to do with anything, barry bonds hasn't won a ring his whole f*cking career, it's about stats not f*cking how your team does, yes he's a purely offensive player but you compare kent's stats to other HOF 2nd baseman and this is what you will see: HOF 2nd Basemani couldn't copy and paste the stats cause the internet is gay but the 2nd baseman with the most homeruns is rogers hornsby with 301, kent already has him beat with 302 homeruns and kent will mostly likely play 3 more years! remember when players are voted in, they are judged by their numbers compared to other players that have played the same position, why is piazza going in the hall of fame, if he wasn't a catcher and had the same numbers he has now and playing another position he wouldn't get in, same situation with kent! here's kent's career numbers so far: G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS 1777 6604 1039 1910 438 42 302 1207 592 1255 86 52 .289 .352 .505 .858 kent will end up with about 400 homeruns, 1500 rbi's, over 2000 hits, 1200 runs, he already has a career batting average of .289 and a career slugging percentage of .505 which would rank 2nd among 2nd baseman in the hall of fame, oh and one more thing, when you argue with me remember to bring facts and stats to backup your argument not bullsh*t!!!
It isn't just about stats. This isn't a fantasy baseball hall of fame. And I don't see what the hell Barry Bonds has to do with this argument. Rogers Hornsby was one of the greatest players of his era. That can definitely not be said of Jeff Kent. Jeff Kent is also a one dimensional player, and as a middle infielder that's definitey going to be looked at. This isn't just about offensive production. It's about the complete package, which includes defense, winning, and how he compares to the other great players of his era. Again, I'm not trying to say Jeff Kent isn't a great player. I'm just saying that he isn't a HOFer. There's a huge difference.
timo please, there you go, arguing with silly points, WINNING DOES NOT MATTER, with the baseball hall of fame it is all about stats, that's the way it's always been, this isn't the nba or nfl, stats mean everything in baseball! look maybe the hall of fame won't vote him in, it's quite possible, he's one of the more on the bubble guys (not to me though) but the stats backup my argument, there's no other way around it!!!
The stats do not back up your argument. Compare his stats (.289 average, 302 homeruns) to the other great players of his era. Not even close. Now, I understand that different numbers are to be expected of a secondbaseman. So, I would be a bit more forgivng of kent...except for the fact that he was never a good defensive player. And yes, winning does matter. it isn't the only thing, but it does matter. If Don Mattingly won a world series, don't you think he would definitely be a HOFer?
NO don mattingly didn't go into the hall of fame cause he only had 5 good years as a player, the back injury he had cut short his career, timo it's not about kent's numbers compared to other players from his ERA, it's about his numbers compared to all other 2nd baseman!!! :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: Again, why can't you understand simple logic? [size=20] Yes, Kent's stats in comparison with other players that played his position are important. But there are many elements that go into deciding whether or not a player is hall of fame worthy. Included in that are defense, how good he was in his own era, and winning. [/size]
for all the new posters out there, read timo's last post, when someone posts silly smilies and types in big bold letters that pretty much means he knows he lost the argument, i made timo look stupid with the mattingly point, i threw that sh*t back right in his face and he didn't even mention it! he says winning is important which it isn't, he also uses defense in his argument which isn't a bad point but mike piazza doesn't throw out runners and isn't considered a good defensive catcher but he's a hall of famer, timo timo timo, your last post was quite sad!!!
Do you know why I ignored your Mattingly post? Because it wasn't the point of the argument. I don't want to get into two seperate arguments.
Right now, mattingly is borderline. If he won a world series, he'd probably get in. If you want to talk about longevity being important for the HOF, look at Sandy koufax.
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he says winning is important which it isn't
Of course it is! That's why they play the games!
The Hall Of Fame is not a fantasy baseball hall of fame. It's a hall of baseball immortality. It takes a lot more than stats to get in.
If stats are all that matters, why is Ozzie Smith there?
And Justin, you completely ignored the point about a player in comparison to other great players of his era.
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TheOne
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Mar 20 2005, 06:34 PM
Post #30
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I'm still better than you!
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both alomar and kent are hall of famers but both can................................. go f*ck themselves!!! :peace:
Kent is NOT a hall of famer. You don't just put every great player in the hall of fame. Kent isn't even close to being the all around play Alomar was, not to mention the fact that kent never won anything.
Kent will get in the HOF, he's puts up great numbers for his position (2nd base), especially in the homerun department, not too many 2nd baseman in the history of mlb were homerun hitters so kent will get in, he was a former mvp as well so stop the bullsh*t!!!
An MVP award is no indication of a Hall of Famer. Are Larry Walker, Chipper Jones, Juan Gonzalez, Ken Caminiti, Mo Vaughn, and George Bell hall of famers? No. Are all great players? Of course. Kent is a one-dimensional player. kent has never won anything. Is there one specific moment you remember Kent for? One specific homerun? The hall of fame is for baseball immortality. I just don't put Kent in that category. You can't put every great player in the hall of fame.
what does winning have to do with anything, barry bonds hasn't won a ring his whole f*cking career, it's about stats not f*cking how your team does, yes he's a purely offensive player but you compare kent's stats to other HOF 2nd baseman and this is what you will see: HOF 2nd Basemani couldn't copy and paste the stats cause the internet is gay but the 2nd baseman with the most homeruns is rogers hornsby with 301, kent already has him beat with 302 homeruns and kent will mostly likely play 3 more years! remember when players are voted in, they are judged by their numbers compared to other players that have played the same position, why is piazza going in the hall of fame, if he wasn't a catcher and had the same numbers he has now and playing another position he wouldn't get in, same situation with kent! here's kent's career numbers so far: G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS 1777 6604 1039 1910 438 42 302 1207 592 1255 86 52 .289 .352 .505 .858 kent will end up with about 400 homeruns, 1500 rbi's, over 2000 hits, 1200 runs, he already has a career batting average of .289 and a career slugging percentage of .505 which would rank 2nd among 2nd baseman in the hall of fame, oh and one more thing, when you argue with me remember to bring facts and stats to backup your argument not bullsh*t!!!
It isn't just about stats. This isn't a fantasy baseball hall of fame. And I don't see what the hell Barry Bonds has to do with this argument. Rogers Hornsby was one of the greatest players of his era. That can definitely not be said of Jeff Kent. Jeff Kent is also a one dimensional player, and as a middle infielder that's definitey going to be looked at. This isn't just about offensive production. It's about the complete package, which includes defense, winning, and how he compares to the other great players of his era. Again, I'm not trying to say Jeff Kent isn't a great player. I'm just saying that he isn't a HOFer. There's a huge difference.
timo please, there you go, arguing with silly points, WINNING DOES NOT MATTER, with the baseball hall of fame it is all about stats, that's the way it's always been, this isn't the nba or nfl, stats mean everything in baseball! look maybe the hall of fame won't vote him in, it's quite possible, he's one of the more on the bubble guys (not to me though) but the stats backup my argument, there's no other way around it!!!
The stats do not back up your argument. Compare his stats (.289 average, 302 homeruns) to the other great players of his era. Not even close. Now, I understand that different numbers are to be expected of a secondbaseman. So, I would be a bit more forgivng of kent...except for the fact that he was never a good defensive player. And yes, winning does matter. it isn't the only thing, but it does matter. If Don Mattingly won a world series, don't you think he would definitely be a HOFer?
NO don mattingly didn't go into the hall of fame cause he only had 5 good years as a player, the back injury he had cut short his career, timo it's not about kent's numbers compared to other players from his ERA, it's about his numbers compared to all other 2nd baseman!!! :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: Again, why can't you understand simple logic? [size=20] Yes, Kent's stats in comparison with other players that played his position are important. But there are many elements that go into deciding whether or not a player is hall of fame worthy. Included in that are defense, how good he was in his own era, and winning. [/size]
for all the new posters out there, read timo's last post, when someone posts silly smilies and types in big bold letters that pretty much means he knows he lost the argument, i made timo look stupid with the mattingly point, i threw that sh*t back right in his face and he didn't even mention it! he says winning is important which it isn't, he also uses defense in his argument which isn't a bad point but mike piazza doesn't throw out runners and isn't considered a good defensive catcher but he's a hall of famer, timo timo timo, your last post was quite sad!!!
Do you know why I ignored your Mattingly post? Because it wasn't the point of the argument. I don't want to get into two seperate arguments. Right now, mattingly is borderline. If he won a world series, he'd probably get in. If you want to talk about longevity being important for the HOF, look at Sandy koufax. - Quote:
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he says winning is important which it isn't
Of course it is! That's why they play the games! The Hall Of Fame is not a fantasy baseball hall of fame. It's a hall of baseball immortality. It takes a lot more than stats to get in. If stats are all that matters, why is Ozzie Smith there? And Justin, you completely ignored the point about a player in comparison to other great players of his era.
don mattingly winning a ring is not going to change anything, NOTHING, he's not in the HOF cause his career was cut short by injury, that's it, nothing else! koufax was way different, he dominated when he pitched, low ERA's, wins, the whole thing, it's a totally different situation than mattingly! what i'm saying is the writers in the hall of fame will look at numbers compared to other 2nd baseman rather than numbers from players in the same era, again i bring up piazza, it's the same sh*t!!!
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