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Shaun Williams Contract; For you, NJDevil and Strider
Topic Started: Nov 16 2004, 05:25 PM (126 Views)
YankeeGiantAQPHB
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Williams signed a 7-year, $24.5 million deal that included a $6.5 million signing bonus before the 2002 season.

This is his 3rd year on the deal. Considering, if we cut him next season, that'd be 4 years of the contract left to be fulfilled. Thus, at 4/7 of 6.5 million, I believe our salary cap hit would be somewhere around 4 million million dollars. Correct me if I'm wrong. 4/7s of 6.5 million, the signing bonus, is how to equate the cap hit I believe.
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YankeeGiantAQPHB
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Still I don't understand the concept behind a 7 year deal in the NFL. If they deterorate quickly, that's a lot of cap hit to cut them.
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Njdevils350
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LieberFastWheeler
Nov 16 2004, 04:25 PM
Williams signed a 7-year, $24.5 million deal that included a $6.5 million signing bonus before the 2002 season.

This is his 3rd year on the deal. Considering, if we cut him next season, that'd be 4 years of the contract left to be fulfilled. Thus, at 4/7 of 6.5 million, I believe our salary cap hit would be somewhere around 4 million million dollars. Correct me if I'm wrong. 4/7s of 6.5 million, the signing bonus, is how to equate the cap hit I believe.

:wootmove: :wootmove: :wootmove: :wootmove: :wootmove: :wootmove: :wootwave: :wootwave: :wootwave: :wootwave: :wootwave:


As I understand it (and im pretty sure im right bc/ ive gone over this a few times) we are responsible for that 6.5 mil and only that 6.5 mil

In can be piad all at once, or over 2 seasons (3.25 and 3.25)
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YankeeGiantAQPHB
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Njdevils350
Nov 16 2004, 04:31 PM
LieberFastWheeler
Nov 16 2004, 04:25 PM
Williams signed a 7-year, $24.5 million deal that included a $6.5 million signing bonus before the 2002 season.

This is his 3rd year on the deal. Considering, if we cut him next season, that'd be 4 years of the contract left to be fulfilled. Thus, at 4/7 of 6.5 million, I believe our salary cap hit would be somewhere around 4 million million dollars. Correct me if I'm wrong. 4/7s of 6.5 million, the signing bonus, is how to equate the cap hit I believe.

:wootmove: :wootmove: :wootmove: :wootmove: :wootmove: :wootmove: :wootwave: :wootwave: :wootwave: :wootwave: :wootwave:


As I understand it (and im pretty sure im right bc/ ive gone over this a few times) we are responsible for that 6.5 mil and only that 6.5 mil

In can be piad all at once, or over 2 seasons (3.25 and 3.25)

Isn't it prorated based on the amount of the years they played under the contract. The Giants would owe him 4/7ths of the 6.5 million, I thought, not the entire 6.5 million since he was getting paid for 3 years, 3/7 of the 6.5 mil.
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YankeeGiantAQPHB
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Calculating it exactly, I believe the cap hit for cutting Williams would be $3,714,285 or $1,857,142 over 2 seasons
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Njdevils350
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LieberFastWheeler
Nov 16 2004, 04:32 PM
Njdevils350
Nov 16 2004, 04:31 PM
LieberFastWheeler
Nov 16 2004, 04:25 PM
Williams signed a 7-year, $24.5 million deal that included a $6.5 million signing bonus before the 2002 season.

This is his 3rd year on the deal. Considering, if we cut him next season, that'd be 4 years of the contract left to be fulfilled. Thus, at 4/7 of 6.5 million, I believe our salary cap hit would be somewhere around 4 million million dollars. Correct me if I'm wrong. 4/7s of 6.5 million, the signing bonus, is how to equate the cap hit I believe.

:wootmove: :wootmove: :wootmove: :wootmove: :wootmove: :wootmove: :wootwave: :wootwave: :wootwave: :wootwave: :wootwave:


As I understand it (and im pretty sure im right bc/ ive gone over this a few times) we are responsible for that 6.5 mil and only that 6.5 mil

In can be piad all at once, or over 2 seasons (3.25 and 3.25)

Isn't it prorated based on the amount of the years they played under the contract. The Giants would owe him 4/7ths of the 6.5 million, I thought, not the entire 6.5 million since he was getting paid for 3 years, 3/7 of the 6.5 mil.

I dont think so (I could be wrong but I dont think I am), but just for the sake of comparison 4/7 is 57 % of the bonus which comes out to 3.4 Million. So theres no real difference.

I think the proarted stuff is in terms of base salary though. Like X increase or X decrease over a certain percentage or yr of contract

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YankeeGiantAQPHB
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"That's cheating! How can you have a real salary cap if all you have to do is give a player a signing bonus to get around it?

Answer: Now we come to the tricky part. The signing bonus IS part of the player's salary. So it counts against the cap. When determining team and player salary, the signing bonus will be prorated over the length of the contract.

For example, if a player signs a four-year deal with a $1 million signing bonus, $250,000 of that bonus will count toward team salary for each contract year ($1 million divided evenly over the four-year contract is $250,000 per year). If a team releases a player, the unamoratized bonus money (the remaining prorated bonus money) counts immediately against the cap.

In our example above, if the player is released after Year 1, the remaining $750,000 (the prorated signing bonus money for years 2-4) counts against the cap in Year 2 -- even though the player is no longer on the team's roster "

This is from a Salary Cap FAQ site
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YankeeGiantAQPHB
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It is prorated from what I understand before and just read. Someone else feel free to correct me, but I believe salary cap is prorated. Williams would only be a 3.8 million cap hit once, instead of the entire 6.5 since he played 3 years of the contract.
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Njdevils350
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LieberFastWheeler
Nov 16 2004, 04:42 PM
"That's cheating! How can you have a real salary cap if all you have to do is give a player a signing bonus to get around it?

Answer: Now we come to the tricky part. The signing bonus IS part of the player's salary. So it counts against the cap. When determining team and player salary, the signing bonus will be prorated over the length of the contract.

For example, if a player signs a four-year deal with a $1 million signing bonus, $250,000 of that bonus will count toward team salary for each contract year ($1 million divided evenly over the four-year contract is $250,000 per year). If a team releases a player, the unamoratized bonus money (the remaining prorated bonus money) counts immediately against the cap.

In our example above, if the player is released after Year 1, the remaining $750,000 (the prorated signing bonus money for years 2-4) counts against the cap in Year 2 -- even though the player is no longer on the team's roster "

This is from a Salary Cap FAQ site

OK, they left out that you can pay over 2 years (I know for a fact since we did that with Sehorn)

So we just have to pay 4/7 of the original bonus which is 3.7 or 1.85 over 2 as you already said.

Theres no reason for him to be on the team next year
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YankeeGiantAQPHB
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Njdevils350
Nov 16 2004, 04:45 PM
LieberFastWheeler
Nov 16 2004, 04:42 PM
"That's cheating!  How can you have a real salary cap if all you have to do is give a player a signing bonus to get around it?
 
Answer: Now we come to the tricky part.  The signing bonus IS part of the player's salary. So it counts against the cap. When determining team and player salary, the signing bonus will be prorated over the length of the contract.

For example, if a player signs a four-year deal with a $1 million signing bonus, $250,000 of that bonus will count toward team salary for each contract year ($1 million divided evenly over the four-year contract is $250,000 per year). If a team releases a player, the unamoratized bonus money (the remaining prorated bonus money) counts immediately against the cap.

In our example above, if the player is released after Year 1, the remaining $750,000 (the prorated signing bonus money for years 2-4) counts against the cap in Year 2 -- even though the player is no longer on the team's roster "

This is from a Salary Cap FAQ site

OK, they left out that you can pay over 2 years (I know for a fact since we did that with Sehorn)

So we just have to pay 4/7 of the original bonus which is 3.7 or 1.85 over 2 as you already said.

Theres no reason for him to be on the team next year

1.8 over two years doesn't sound bad at all. I look at it this way, Gibril Wilson would cost us about 2 mil a season in cap over the next 2 years, as opposed to paying Williams around 4 in cap for the next 2 and 5 in cap for the last 2.

Wilson would make 300,000 in 05 and 06
Williams would make 4,000,000 in 05 and 06

Cutting Williams saves us 4,000,000-1,800,000= 2,200,000 over the first two years

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Njdevils350
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This makes me so happy. Now all we need is the balls to actually cut him.
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YankeeGiantAQPHB
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FYI, Williams would have been getting paid

3,000,000 in 05 + 930,000 in bonus= 3,930,000
3,000,000 in 06 + 930,000 in bonus= 3,930,000
4,000,000 in 07 + 930,000 in bonus= 4,930,000
4,000,000 in 08 + 930,000 in bonus= 4,930,000

Total Cap Hit Of 17,720,000 over 4 years for Williams

If cut we pay, $3,714,285 over 1 or 2 years

A total savings of 14,000,000 over 4 years.

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Njdevils350
Nov 16 2004, 04:52 PM
This makes me so happy. Now all we need is the balls to actually cut him.

Do we have to give Wilson a raise or does he get the standard 5, 6 year, 300,000 dollar deal that keeps us with cheap starting talent?
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LieberFastWheeler
Nov 16 2004, 04:56 PM
Njdevils350
Nov 16 2004, 04:52 PM
This makes me so happy. Now all we need is the balls to actually cut him.

Do we have to give Wilson a raise or does he get the standard 5, 6 year, 300,000 dollar deal that keeps us with cheap starting talent?

He was a 5th round pick so its probably around atleast 3 yrs/300K

Cheap starting talent
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Njdevils350
Nov 16 2004, 04:59 PM
LieberFastWheeler
Nov 16 2004, 04:56 PM
Njdevils350
Nov 16 2004, 04:52 PM
This makes me so happy. Now all we need is the balls to actually cut him.

Do we have to give Wilson a raise or does he get the standard 5, 6 year, 300,000 dollar deal that keeps us with cheap starting talent?

He was a 5th round pick so its probably around atleast 3 yrs/300K

Cheap starting talent

If they don't cut him, I will be furious. This would actually save us about a million bucks next season, 2 million if we do the contract over 2 seasons.

Do you want me to be hypothetical and figure the cap hit on cutting Petitgout?
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Strider
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A little thunderstorm on your sunny day...

The Giants won't release him. Going into the season, they saw him as the leader of the secondary. They think that he's talented (first round pick). They think that in the right schemes, he can flourish. That + the money = Brent Alexander being released or benched and Gibril Wilson being moved back to FS. This is the Giants. You can never get too happy.

Shuan Williams makes more than Tiki Barber. Let that marinate for a second...
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Quote:
 
Do you want me to be hypothetical and figure the cap hit on cutting Petitgout?


Please do.

There's the possiblity of Gibril busting balls and holding out. You have to anticipate the worst when you root for this team.
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YankeeGiantAQPHB
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Strider
Nov 16 2004, 05:02 PM
A little thunderstorm on your sunny day...

The Giants won't release him. Going into the season, they saw him as the leader of the secondary. They think that he's talented (first round pick). They think that in the right schemes, he can flourish. That + the money = Brent Alexander being released or benched and Gibril Wilson being moved back to FS. This is the Giants. You can never get too happy.

Shuan Williams makes more than Tiki Barber. Let that marinate for a second...

Excellent point, Strider. The move is too logical for the Giants to make. Here's a list of the 2005 free agents, supposedly. I can't believe none of these guys would better fit us than Williams.

. Kwamie Lassiter, Arizona

2. Tebucky Jones, New England

3. Lee Flowers, Pittsburgh

4. Eric Brown, Houston

5. Donovin Darius, Jacksonville

6. Dexter Jackson, Tampa Bay

7. Victor Green, New England

8. Cory Hall, Cincinnati

9. Keion Carpenter, Atlanta

10. Ronnie Bradford, Minnesota
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YankeeGiantAQPHB
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3. Luke Petitgout, NYG: Signed a six-year, $30 million deal with a $10 million bonus the night before free agency started -- off the board. Petitgout made about $450,000 in 2002, but this new deal set the market for the rest of the left tackles.

So, he has only played 2 of the 6 committed years. 4/6 of 10 million is $6,666,667. That'd be his cap hit. 3,333,334 over 2 years or 6,666,667 in one shot.
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Njdevils350
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f*ck. might as well keep him
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Njdevils350
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here ya go buddy
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FYI, Williams would have been getting paid

3,000,000 in 05 + 930,000 in bonus= 3,930,000
3,000,000 in 06 + 930,000 in bonus= 3,930,000
4,000,000 in 07 + 930,000 in bonus= 4,930,000
4,000,000 in 08 + 930,000 in bonus= 4,930,000

Total Cap Hit Of 17,720,000 over 4 years for Williams

If cut we pay, $3,714,285 over 1 or 2 years

A total savings of 14,000,000 over 4 years.
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TheOne
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Njdevils350
Dec 23 2004, 11:03 PM
FYI, Williams would have been getting paid

3,000,000 in 05 + 930,000 in bonus= 3,930,000
3,000,000 in 06 + 930,000 in bonus= 3,930,000
4,000,000 in 07 + 930,000 in bonus= 4,930,000
4,000,000 in 08 + 930,000 in bonus= 4,930,000

Total Cap Hit Of 17,720,000 over 4 years for Williams

If cut we pay, $3,714,285 over 1 or 2 years

A total savings of 14,000,000 over 4 years.

the giants gotta cut him then!!!
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For a team that is cap-retarded (that would be us), we may not be able to take the hit whether it's one or two years.

Some people (not here that I know of) have gotten overly excited at what our projected cap space will be next year. It's not a lot of money, but, more breathing room than we've have in quite some time. BUT, when you get to the fine print, that projected cap space, in reality, is usually MUCH less. Toss in the high salaries of quite a few players who won't be going anywhere, who have already restructured up the ass, and you see where/why I wonder about Williams.

Thanks, Njd, for pulling this up. :thumbup:
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no problem.

As far as what we do in the off-season, theres a difference between what is logical and what we actually do
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