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HEY, LARRY, HOW ABOUT DOING SOME COACHING?; Mike Vaccaro
Topic Started: Aug 22 2004, 06:55 AM (466 Views)
Strider
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Vaccaro critical of Larry Brown

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It is so easy for Larry Brown's army of apologists to sit on their couches thousands of miles away from Greece and hide their eyes from what everyone else can see so clearly. Through a television screen, Brown may seem like some tortured victim of circumstance, idling through a thankless job.


Its a good read. I agree with most of it. Larry Brown is a great coach (best in the NBA) and I like him, but Vaccaro is right. I didn't like what he did in yesterday's game. LeBron lead the team to its big second half outburst against Australia, but he gets no minutes against Lithuania. Instead, Lamar Odom is out there picking up fouls every other trip down court. Stephon Marbury hasn't done a thing in these games and Dwayne Wade has been a sparkplug at times, Marbury continues to start and get the bulk of the minutes. Along with the bonehead plays and missed free throws, that bit us in the ass yesterday. Like Vaccaro said, its too late to be complaining about the dinner not tasting good. Its all you have in the fridge, so throw some ketchup on it and eat. He didn't do a good job yesterday and I'm glad that someone was bold enough to come out and criticize him.
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Venom
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HEY, LARRY, HOW ABOUT DOING SOME COACHING?
Mike Vaccaro


HEY THUGS AND POTHEADS, HOW ABOUT YOU PLAY BASKETBALL THE WAY IT'S MEANT TO BE PLAYED?
Rob Vaccaro :peace:
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amit
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Rob Version 1.0
Aug 22 2004, 05:56 PM
Quote:
 
HEY, LARRY, HOW ABOUT DOING SOME COACHING?
Mike Vaccaro


HEY THUGS AND POTHEADS, HOW ABOUT YOU PLAY BASKETBALL THE WAY IT'S MEANT TO BE PLAYED?
Rob Vaccaro :peace:

:lmao: :thumbup:
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Strider
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amit
Aug 22 2004, 07:52 PM
Rob Version 1.0
Aug 22 2004, 05:56 PM
Quote:
 
HEY, LARRY, HOW ABOUT DOING SOME COACHING?
Mike Vaccaro


HEY THUGS AND POTHEADS, HOW ABOUT YOU PLAY BASKETBALL THE WAY IT'S MEANT TO BE PLAYED?
Rob Vaccaro :peace:

:lmao: :thumbup:

1. That wasn't funny. And you know I can appreciate humor even if I don't agree with it.
2. Its not correct. As I've said before, 30% shooters don't become marksmen over night.
3. Anyone who knows sh*t can't dispute what Mike Vaccaro said. Brown has what he has and he has to make due with it. To make a baseball comparison: the Yankees are down a run in the bottom of the 9th. Olerud draws a walk to leadoff the inning. Joe doesn't pinch run for him, whoever hits a groundall to short and its turned into a DP. Olerud, ofcourse, doesn't have enough speed to even have a chance to get down there and break it up. Are we blaming Olerud? No, the situation is, dude has no speed. Work around it and do the best you can with what you have.
4. Rob, you don't like basketball or the NBA. Why are you commenting on it?
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bballfreak

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:clap:
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amit
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Strider
Aug 22 2004, 08:14 PM
amit
Aug 22 2004, 07:52 PM
Rob Version 1.0
Aug 22 2004, 05:56 PM
Quote:
 
HEY, LARRY, HOW ABOUT DOING SOME COACHING?
Mike Vaccaro


HEY THUGS AND POTHEADS, HOW ABOUT YOU PLAY BASKETBALL THE WAY IT'S MEANT TO BE PLAYED?
Rob Vaccaro :peace:

:lmao: :thumbup:

1. That wasn't funny. And you know I can appreciate humor even if I don't agree with it.

I thought it was.
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Strider
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I did not. Hell, I'm supporting the team and I could have done better than that.
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TheOne
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I'm still better than you!
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the 2004 USA basketball team:
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bballfreak

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Would you have been more happier if they looked like this?

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Strider
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I know this isn't where bbfreak was headed with that, but I do think that it would help. Not calling anyone racist and I'm the last one to play that card, but I think that this team would get more support from the country if there were a couple more "Fred Hoiberg's" and fewer tattooed and cornrowed "Carmelo's". Not just that fact that the shooting would be better, but people find it easier to root for people who they can relate to better.

* Let the, "Shut the f*ck up, Strider. You don't know what you're talking about!" commence.
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TheOne
Aug 23 2004, 05:43 AM
the 2004 USA basketball team:
Posted Image

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


Team USA accepting their Bronze Medal:

Posted Image
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Strider
Aug 23 2004, 11:48 AM
I know this isn't where bbfreak was headed with that, but I do think that it would help. Not calling anyone racist and I'm the last one to play that card, but I think that this team would get more support from the country if there were a couple more "Fred Hoiberg's" and fewer tattooed and cornrowed "Carmelo's". Not just that fact that the shooting would be better, but people find it easier to root for people who they can relate to better.


Don't be ridiculous.


A lot of track and field stars are black and people root for them. People just do not want to root for a bunch of clowns that looks like street thugs and don't play basketball the right way.
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Strider
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I'm not saying that's why people aren't rooting for them. I said that if there were less of ___ and more of ___, it would make it easier. The same goes for any group of people. You see a Puerto Rican from the Bronx competing against a Native American from Iowa, you're rooting for your man. I try not to do that and anybody who has talked to me enough or away from here knows how I am, but even me, if I see a black guy competiting against someone and there isn't a separating factor, I'm rooting "my nigga". I think that the fact that they're tattooed and cornrowed black guys who you (Rob) have called thugs, added to the fact that they're not dominating/winning/playing a specific style makes it easier to not root for them. Don't tell me you're not rooting for them just because they're not playing fundamental basketball. You're not even a basketball fan. When the Yankees fail to execute a bunt, don't drive a run in from 3B with 1 out, or make an error on a routine play (fundamentals), you don't root against them.
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bballfreak

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Rob Version 1.0
Aug 23 2004, 12:48 PM
Strider
Aug 23 2004, 11:48 AM
I know this isn't where bbfreak was headed with that, but I do think that it would help. Not calling anyone racist and I'm the last one to play that card, but I think that this team would get more support from the country if there were a couple more "Fred Hoiberg's" and fewer tattooed and cornrowed "Carmelo's". Not just that fact that the shooting would be better, but people find it easier to root for people who they can relate to better.


Don't be ridiculous.


A lot of track and field stars are black and people root for them. People just do not want to root for a bunch of clowns that looks like street thugs and don't play basketball the right way.


Dont be so damn ignorant. Like Strider said, would you stop rooting for the Yankees just because they dont play fundamental baseball? Would you call Giambi, Sheff and ARod thugs for not playing baseball "the right way"? Enough with this bullsh*t about not playing fundamental basketball.

Quote:
 
clowns that looks like street thugs


Street thugs? care to elaborate? Do you not like them because they were jewelry and wear caps backwards and wear old school jerseys? Would you like them more if they came out with Metallica, Creed and Alter Bridge shirts?
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bballfreak
Aug 23 2004, 01:40 PM
Dont be so damn ignorant. Like Strider said, would you stop rooting for the Yankees just because they dont play fundamental baseball? Would you call Giambi, Sheff and ARod thugs for not playing baseball "the right way"? Enough with this bullsh*t about not playing fundamental basketball.

:laugh:

First off, the Yankees do not show up for games with their pants hanging 4 feet off their asses like the Wu Tand Clan did at the Opening Ceremonies of the Olympics. They don't barge in with scowls on their faces trying to look cool.

Last time I checked, A-Rod was not arrested for having drugs on him.



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Quote:
 
clowns that looks like street thugs


Street thugs? care to elaborate? Do you not like them because they were jewelry and wear caps backwards and wear old school jerseys? Would you like them more if they came out with Metallica, Creed and Alter Bridge shirts?


What does Creed, Alter Bridge, or any other rock group have to do with these guys playing like sh*t and looking like thugs?
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Strider
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You're so ridiculous. What does Creed, Alter Bridge, or any other rock group have to do with these guys playing like sh*t and looking like thugs?


His point was that if they were wearing tighter fitting pants and had on Alter Bridge shirts, but were sucking, you wouldn't love to hate them as much as you do. I agree.

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First off, the Yankees do not show up for games with their pants hanging 4 feet off their asses like the Wu Tand Clan did at the Opening Ceremonies of the Olympics. They don't barge in with scowls on their faces trying to look cool.


That's what I said two posts back or whenever I said it and you proved my point. You talk about fundamentals and style of play, but that's not your only reason and its not your main reason. If fundamentals was your thing and you liked the bounce passes and standard lay-ups of 1961, you wouldn't care about how they looked and the image they projected, but only about the style of play. You don't and that goes back to my original point.
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Strider
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Drew, I've seen you lurking in here after every new reply. Chip in with your 2 cents. If you disagree with me, I won't hate you. The same for Rob.
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Mattingly23
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I don't care if they look like thugs. I care about the style of play. These players do not know how to play basketball as it was meant to be played. They grew up in the SportsCenter generation, which stresses dunking and style points more than crisp passing, tenacious defense, accurate shooting from all ranges, especially mid-range, and proper clock management (getting a good shot off at the right time, not forcing up ill-advised shots with the shot clock about to expire).

The reason these European teams are winning, and when they play each other, they are tight, well-played games, is that their countries still stress the fundamentals of the game. They know how to shoot. They know how to pass. They know how to defend. They don't care about style points.

I still love the NBA, but I don't like the direction it is going.
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bballfreak

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His point was that if they were wearing tighter fitting pants and had on Alter Bridge shirts, but were sucking, you wouldn't love to hate them as much as you do.


Thank You! :clap:

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That's what I said two posts back or whenever I said it and you proved my point. You talk about fundamentals and style of play, but that's not your only reason and its not your main reason. If fundamentals was your thing and you liked the bounce passes and standard lay-ups of 1961, you wouldn't care about how they looked and the image they projected, but only about the style of play. You don't and that goes back to my original point.


It is fashionable right now to hate on the American basketball players just because they dont play fundamental basketball. These guys just follow the crowd because they cant form their own opinions. Everything Rob said in his last post has nothing to do with basketball.
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Mattingly23
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bballfreak
Aug 23 2004, 02:21 PM

It is fashionable right now to hate on the American basketball players just because they dont play fundamental basketball. These guys just follow the crowd because they cant form their own opinions. Everything Rob said in his last post has nothing to do with basketball.

I form my own opinions from watching years of basketball, not by following what others are saying.

Talk about following others. Where did you pick up the saying "hate on?"
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bballfreak

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I don't care if they look like thugs. I care about the style of play. These players do not know how to play basketball as it was meant to be played. They grew up in the SportsCenter generation, which stresses dunking and style points more than crisp passing, tenacious defense, accurate shooting from all ranges, especially mid-range, and proper clock management (getting a good shot off at the right time, not forcing up ill-advised shots with the shot clock about to expire).


Please dont include everyone in the NBA as following the SportsCenter highlight reels. Tim Duncan is as fundamental as you can get.

Quote:
 
tenacious defense

Ron Artest, Bruce Bowen, Ben Wallace are all tenacious defenders.

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accurate shooting from all ranges

Ray Allen, Brent Barry, Michael Redd, Allan Houston are all acurate shooters.

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especially mid-range


Rip Hamilton, Reggie Miller are both great mid-range shooters.

For the last time...Blame this on the Olympic selection commitee! Not the damn players! :bag:
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bballfreak

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Mattingly23
Aug 23 2004, 02:23 PM
bballfreak
Aug 23 2004, 02:21 PM

It is fashionable right now to hate on the American basketball players just because they dont play fundamental basketball. These guys just follow the crowd because they cant form their own opinions. Everything Rob said in his last post has nothing to do with basketball.

I form my own opinions from watching years of basketball, not by following what others are saying.

Talk about following others. Where did you pick up the saying "hate on?"


I wasnt talking about you.

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Talk about following others.  Where did you pick up the saying "hate on?"


:dunno:

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Mattingly23
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Aug 23 2004, 02:27 PM
Please dont include everyone in the NBA as following the SportsCenter highlight reels. Tim Duncan is as fundamental as you can get.



Tim Duncan is the only fundamentally sound player on Team USA. I was talking about the team and NBA as a whole.

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
tenacious defense

Ron Artest, Bruce Bowen, Ben Wallace are all tenacious defenders.


Again, I was talking about Team USA and relating it to the NBA since the players on Team USA are in the NBA. Artest, Bowen, and Big Ben aren't on Team USA. If they were, this team would be a lot better. It would also give them a solid 3 point shooter in Bowen, something Team USA is sorely missing.

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
accurate shooting from all ranges

Ray Allen, Brent Barry, Michael Redd, Allan Houston are all acurate shooters.


Again, they aren't on Team USA, and if they were, we would be a lot better off.

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
especially mid-range


Rip Hamilton, Reggie Miller are both great mid-range shooters.

For the last time...Blame this on the Olympic selection commitee! Not the damn players! :bag:


The Olympic selection committee invited a lot of the players you mentioned. They turned them down.

OK anyway, you just mentioned some fundamentally sound players in the NBA. As a whole, the league is looking for young, athletic players out of high school and early college, who do not know how to play the game properly. LeBron James will be great, but he surely could have improved his all around game before joining the NBA if he had played under a coach like Coach K or Roy Williams for a few seasons. Do you think Josh Howard has a polished game yet? I really have no idea, but I tend to doubt it.

You're watching the NBA through blinders or you're too young to remember real basketball if you don't see any problems. Like I said, I love the NBA, but I see it slipping.

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Quote:
 
Talk about following others.  Where did you pick up the saying "hate on?"


:dunno:


"Hate on" is not a legit saying. You picked it up from rappers or the street, hence you have followed others.
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Strider
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Mattingly23
Aug 23 2004, 02:19 PM
I don't care if they look like thugs.  I care about the style of play.  These players do not know how to play basketball as it was meant to be played.  They grew up in the SportsCenter generation, which stresses dunking and style points more than crisp passing, tenacious defense, accurate shooting from all ranges, especially mid-range, and proper clock management (getting a good shot off at the right time, not forcing up ill-advised shots with the shot clock about to expire). 

The reason these European teams are winning, and when they play each other, they are tight, well-played games, is that their countries still stress the fundamentals of the game.  They know how to shoot.  They know how to pass.  They know how to defend.  They don't care about style points.

I still love the NBA, but I don't like the direction it is going.

Unlike Rob, who can't mention the team without calling them thugs. Rob, who doesn't like the sport and who I doubt knows much about it, claims its because of fundamentals. Like he knows or would care about the difference. He doesn't like them (and people like them) because of how they look and the image they project.

My point here is that he tried to counter one of my points, but ended up proving it.
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bballfreak

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Too young? :laugh: I have been watching and studying basketball for almost 25 years. Didnt you notice my sn? I live and die with basketball and baseball.

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As a whole, the league is looking for young, athletic players out of high school and early college, who do not know how to play the game properly.


Is it the player's fault teams are willing to give more money to young and atheltic players instead of the fundamentally sound players? The teams are offering money for the athletic, dunk first and pass second players. Heck if Im 17 year old, I would want to become a athelete first and basketball player second because of the money. Its absurd how much money these teams are wasting to find the next Tmac.

Quote:
 
LeBron James will be great, but he surely could have improved his all around game before joining the NBA if he had played under a coach like Coach K or Roy Williams for a few seasons.


Again...ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY! Do you really think Lebron would have said no to a 100M shoe contract and money in the NBA for college experience? :bag:

I agree with you on the point that NBA is heading in a wrong direction but to call every player a thug just because they look and act in a different way than you and dont play fundamentally sound basketball is just stupid. :bag:
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Mattingly23
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Of course A LOT of the blame has to be put on the league. I think I made that pretty clear when I was discussing the types of players the league is looking for.

I never said you were young. I said you were either watching through blinders or young if you don't see the level of play slipping. It seems to me that you do see the problems, but are just in the mood to argue, so I will let you be for now.

I also never called them thugs. I said I don't care what they look like.
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bballfreak

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No No...Im not in the mood to argue about the state of the NBA with you because I agree with everything you said in your earlier posts about the NBA. I am in the mood to argue against the idiotic comments that has been made in this board about the USA basketball players. Alright these have been my two main points for the past couple of days.

The USA basketball team is filled with athletic players who have no idea about the international game. You(Im talking about some posters here and the media not you Matt23) should blame the Olympic selection commitee for picking the wrong players instead of bitching and moaning about the players that are there. The NBA also has players who can adjust to international game but they were either not invited or refused to play. The blame shouldnt fall on these guys because they accepted the chance to play for their country instead of giving excuses and backing out from an invitation.

My other point was about all this "thug" bullsh*t. Some people here cant relate to some players on the team so they resort to calling them thugs and hoodlums. Just because a couple of players on the team(Iverson and Odom) had problems in the past with the law, it doesnt make everyone a f*cking criminal and a thug. Are Duncan, RJ, Marion, Lebron, Carmelo, Stephon and Okafor criminals?

About the clothes.....That is part of their culture. Noone calls the guys who wear spikes on their neck and dress in all black clothes criminals because they dress that way. I think it is complete bs to call anyone a thug just because they dress a certain way.

Im done with this nonsense.
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Rob Version 1.0
Aug 23 2004, 01:06 PM
bballfreak
Aug 23 2004, 01:40 PM
Dont be so damn ignorant. Like Strider said, would you stop rooting for the Yankees just because they dont play fundamental baseball? Would you call Giambi, Sheff and ARod thugs for not playing baseball "the right way"? Enough with this bullsh*t about not playing fundamental basketball.

:laugh:

First off, the Yankees do not show up for games with their pants hanging 4 feet off their asses like the Wu Tand Clan did at the Opening Ceremonies of the Olympics. They don't barge in with scowls on their faces trying to look cool.

Last time I checked, A-Rod was not arrested for having drugs on him.



Quote:
 
Quote:
 
clowns that looks like street thugs


Street thugs? care to elaborate? Do you not like them because they were jewelry and wear caps backwards and wear old school jerseys? Would you like them more if they came out with Metallica, Creed and Alter Bridge shirts?


What does Creed, Alter Bridge, or any other rock group have to do with these guys playing like sh*t and looking like thugs?

Last time I checked, the following members of U.S.A basketball had no criminal records.

Tim Duncan
Richard Jefferson
Carmelo Anthony
LeBron James
Carlos Boozer
Stephon Marbury
Dwayne Wade
Emeka Okafor
Shawn Marion

Amare Stoudmire might have gotten into some trouble at the age of 16, but he had an awful childhood.

Lamar Odom smoked some weed, but so do I. He has stopped and resurrected his career.

Allen Iverson, while looking it and having a very questiontable history, has been a team leader and is also one of the nicest people in the NBA, according to my sister who works in the NBA. Guys like Shaq are complete a-holes, while she says Iverson is just wonderful. He is also a terrific father.

Hey Rob, in point, shut your face.
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bballfreak

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Lamar Odom smoked some weed, but so do I. He has stopped and resurrected his career.


There was also an excellent article on ESPN.com about his problems and how he overcame it. You guys should read it.
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Mattingly23
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ETS,

Marbury has been arrested, but I agree, they're not necessarily thugs. They just don't play REAL basketball well. They're great athletes though.
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