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I Hate Joel Sherman So Much
Topic Started: Aug 15 2004, 05:50 AM (97 Views)
TheOne
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Ruins After Robbie

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THE Mets acquired Roberto Alomar. The Indians obtained wisdom. Advantage, Cleveland.

Today the Indians are contenders with an encouraging future not because of the return they received for Alomar nearly three years ago, but for what they learned in the aftermath. The Mets, meanwhile, are less promising now and in the future than Cleveland, having failed to learn a darn thing.


:serious:

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"The Alomar trade was a pivotal learning experience for us — we must have clarity of direction," Indians GM Mark Shapiro said. "We tried to accomplish two things with one trade, and we quickly realized that we could not do that and acted quickly to change."

How about the Mets — what did they learn? Not much apparently. Dealing for Alomar made sense; he had just finished fourth in the AL MVP voting. But he came to New York as part of what turned out to be a brutally conceived class that included Jeromy Burnitz, Roger Cedeno and Mo Vaughn. Alomar was horrible and so were the Mets.

But here is the problem: The Mets could have gone one of two ways — get back on their financial horse or completely renovate for the future. They did neither. An NL GM said, "With the market size of the Mets, you win with impact players." However, shell-shocked from the failure of the big money 2001-02 acquisitions, Mets owner Fred Wilpon has crusaded against investing in stars, instead settling for second-tier-or-worse outlays such as Mike Cameron, Braden Looper and Kaz Matsui.


wow this guy is a real a-hole, the mets were praised for making that alomar deal, it was an excellent move, he just sucked here, plain and simple and then he acts like the indians robbed the mets in that trade, yeah they came out real winners in that deal, alex escobar is going to be a real player! of course he has to give the mets one last cheap shot, talking sh*t about the mets signings this offseason, enough all 3 players are having pretty good seasons, cameron has been the mets best player this season. kaz has been horrible defensively but is a good offensive player and is improving and looper is one of the top closers in the national league, unbelieveable, how does this guy still have a job??? :no1: :wall:
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Strider
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:dunno: Look at the standings and your team's record. He has to find something negative to write.

[size=14]79-83[/size]
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TheOne
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:yawn:

anybody else have an opinion???
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champ4life

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Yeah. I think he echoes the sentiments of most logical Met fans. Guerrero was available, so we sign Karim and Spencer instead! The Alomar deal was a good deal but he was a spotty clubhouse presence and we surrounded him with other spotty clubhouse presences. And then to control future spotty clubhouse presences we bring in Art Howe, who has about as much control of his team as njd has over his drinking problems!
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Strider
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champ4life
Aug 15 2004, 10:27 AM
Yeah. I think he echoes the sentiments of most logical Met fans. Guerrero was available, so we sign Karim and Spencer instead! The Alomar deal was a good deal but he was a spotty clubhouse presence and we surrounded him with other spotty clubhouse presences. And then to control future spotty clubhouse presences we bring in Art Howe, who has about as much control of his team as njd has over his drinking problems!

^ Logical Mets fan.
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TheOne
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nonsense, both of you are stupid a-holes, the mets have made a ton of bad decisions but the alomar deal wasn't one of them, they traded for a future hall of famer coming off of a great season, talking about how he was in the clubhouse is just stupid, weren't you a yankee fan anyway back then champ!!! :smirk: :peace:
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champ4life

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TheOne
Aug 15 2004, 01:50 PM
nonsense, both of you are stupid a-holes, the mets have made a ton of bad decisions but the alomar deal wasn't one of them, they traded for a future hall of famer coming off of a great season, talking about how he was in the clubhouse is just stupid, weren't you a yankee fan anyway back then champ!!! :smirk:  :peace:

No. I became a Met fan back in '99 when I came to this country. And the deal obviously looked good at the time, but the team just turned out to have too many questionable personalities. I don't blame the Mets for not predicting how bad he'd be here. But I do, like Joel Sherman, blame them for not learning from their mistakes.
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VICTORious
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champ4life
Aug 15 2004, 07:09 PM
TheOne
Aug 15 2004, 01:50 PM
nonsense, both of you are stupid a-holes, the mets have made a ton of bad decisions but the alomar deal wasn't one of them, they traded for a future hall of famer coming off of a great season, talking about how he was in the clubhouse is just stupid, weren't you a yankee fan anyway back then champ!!! :smirk:  :peace:

No. I became a Met fan back in '99 when I came to this country. And the deal obviously looked good at the time, but the team just turned out to have too many questionable personalities. I don't blame the Mets for not predicting how bad he'd be here. But I do, like Joel Sherman, blame them for not learning from their mistakes.

when waas the last time they made another alomar type deal?
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timotime
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champ4life
Aug 15 2004, 10:27 AM
Yeah. I think he echoes the sentiments of most logical Met fans. Guerrero was available, so we sign Karim and Spencer instead! The Alomar deal was a good deal but he was a spotty clubhouse presence and we surrounded him with other spotty clubhouse presences. And then to control future spotty clubhouse presences we bring in Art Howe, who has about as much control of his team as njd has over his drinking problems!

:clap:
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TheOne
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champ4life
Aug 15 2004, 07:09 PM
TheOne
Aug 15 2004, 01:50 PM
nonsense, both of you are stupid a-holes, the mets have made a ton of bad decisions but the alomar deal wasn't one of them, they traded for a future hall of famer coming off of a great season, talking about how he was in the clubhouse is just stupid, weren't you a yankee fan anyway back then champ!!! :smirk:  :peace:

No. I became a Met fan back in '99 when I came to this country. And the deal obviously looked good at the time, but the team just turned out to have too many questionable personalities. I don't blame the Mets for not predicting how bad he'd be here. But I do, like Joel Sherman, blame them for not learning from their mistakes.

i hate joel sherman and alot of met fans hate him as well, the alomar deal was a good one when the mets made it, infact it wasn't a good one, it was a great one, these writers and some stupid met fans just want to kick the mets while they're down! the mets have made a ton of bad decisions, not going after a-rod, trading for mo vaughn (even though some people liked that deal too), trading for burnitz, i still think vlad didn't want to play in new york but that's just my opinion, one deal you can't kill the mets for is the alomar deal, the mets traded for at the time, a hall of famer!!!
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champ4life

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bowwowchow
Aug 15 2004, 06:26 PM
champ4life
Aug 15 2004, 07:09 PM
TheOne
Aug 15 2004, 01:50 PM
nonsense, both of you are stupid a-holes, the mets have made a ton of bad decisions but the alomar deal wasn't one of them, they traded for a future hall of famer coming off of a great season, talking about how he was in the clubhouse is just stupid, weren't you a yankee fan anyway back then champ!!! :smirk:  :peace:

No. I became a Met fan back in '99 when I came to this country. And the deal obviously looked good at the time, but the team just turned out to have too many questionable personalities. I don't blame the Mets for not predicting how bad he'd be here. But I do, like Joel Sherman, blame them for not learning from their mistakes.

when waas the last time they made another alomar type deal?

The organization was a dysfunctional mess when Alomar was here and it is still a dysfunctional mess now. We seemed to be heading in the right direction building a YOUNG, hardworking, team first core with which we could THEN supplement with superstars like Alomar, but that changed in 3 days. It has a lot to do with depth. You can afford to give up prospects when you have some real depth of top-tier talent still left. When we traded for Alomar we had no depth and his failures here left us with nothing. I find the current deals for Benson and Zambrano to be similar. Though we had added depth in the minors we still lacked a real dearth of top-tier prospects. So if Benson or Zambrano fail here, we won't have top prospects to fill in. Signing FAs is different from trading in that FA signings are strictly wallet oriented. What has happened with this team under Wilpon's ownership, is that we have refused to sign the top FAs and settled for trading our top prospects instead. It has been proven that that isn't the right way to do business and why Met fans ought to be upset. To clean up this mess Wilpon MUST be willing to spend a lot of money this offseason. But history leads me to believe he won't open his wallet. :thumbdown:
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TheOne
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champ4life
Aug 15 2004, 09:01 PM
bowwowchow
Aug 15 2004, 06:26 PM
champ4life
Aug 15 2004, 07:09 PM
TheOne
Aug 15 2004, 01:50 PM
nonsense, both of you are stupid a-holes, the mets have made a ton of bad decisions but the alomar deal wasn't one of them, they traded for a future hall of famer coming off of a great season, talking about how he was in the clubhouse is just stupid, weren't you a yankee fan anyway back then champ!!! :smirk:  :peace:

No. I became a Met fan back in '99 when I came to this country. And the deal obviously looked good at the time, but the team just turned out to have too many questionable personalities. I don't blame the Mets for not predicting how bad he'd be here. But I do, like Joel Sherman, blame them for not learning from their mistakes.

when waas the last time they made another alomar type deal?

The organization was a dysfunctional mess when Alomar was here and it is still a dysfunctional mess now. We seemed to be heading in the right direction building a YOUNG, hardworking, team first core with which we could THEN supplement with superstars like Alomar, but that changed in 3 days. It has a lot to do with depth. You can afford to give up prospects when you have some real depth of top-tier talent still left. When we traded for Alomar we had no depth and his failures here left us with nothing. I find the current deals for Benson and Zambrano to be similar. Though we had added depth in the minors we still lacked a real dearth of top-tier prospects. So if Benson or Zambrano fail here, we won't have top prospects to fill in. Signing FAs is different from trading in that FA signings are strictly wallet oriented. What has happened with this team under Wilpon's ownership, is that we have refused to sign the top FAs and settled for trading our top prospects instead. It has been proven that that isn't the right way to do business and why Met fans ought to be upset. To clean up this mess Wilpon MUST be willing to spend a lot of money this offseason. But history leads me to believe he won't open his wallet. :thumbdown:

i agree with wilpon spending the money but the mets made the right move trading for alomar and the guys they traded for him are doing nothing, heck alex escobar just got released last week, the only deal that sent the mets back was the vaughn deal, they were stuck with him until he got injured! lets remember wilpon (who i can't stand by the way) spent 120 million on the team that offseason, the mets had the 2nd highest payroll in the league so it's not about just spending the money, it's about making smart baseball decisions, which i feel they did this past offseason, they have to improve in the next upcoming offseason and sign a big time bat to lead this offense and i feel the mets will be on their way to becoming playoff contenders once they do that!!!
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champ4life

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TheOne
Aug 15 2004, 08:15 PM
i agree with wilpon spending the money but the mets made the right move trading for alomar and the guys they traded for him are doing nothing, heck alex escobar just got released last week, the only deal that sent the mets back was the vaughn deal, they were stuck with him until he got injured! lets remember wilpon (who i can't stand by the way) spent 120 million on the team that offseason, the mets had the 2nd highest payroll in the league so it's not about just spending the money, it's about making smart baseball decisions, which i feel they did this past offseason, they have to improve in the next upcoming offseason and sign a big time bat to lead this offense and i feel the mets will be on their way to becoming playoff contenders once they do that!!!

Bad baseball decisions obviously were key. You can't put together a bunch of high profile players with contrasting personalities and expect them to just come together. Each player needs to be held accountable and have some pressure to perform. The easiest way to get players to perform is to have some real prospects in the minors who are pushing them. Right now, who's pushing a guy like Phillips for a job?
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TheOne
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champ4life
Aug 15 2004, 09:19 PM
TheOne
Aug 15 2004, 08:15 PM
i agree with wilpon spending the money but the mets made the right move trading for alomar and the guys they traded for him are doing nothing, heck alex escobar just got released last week, the only deal that sent the mets back was the vaughn deal, they were stuck with him until he got injured! lets remember wilpon (who i can't stand by the way) spent 120 million on the team that offseason, the mets had the 2nd highest payroll in the league so it's not about just spending the money, it's about making smart baseball decisions, which i feel they did this past offseason, they have to improve in the next upcoming offseason and sign a big time bat to lead this offense and i feel the mets will be on their way to becoming playoff contenders once they do that!!!

Bad baseball decisions obviously were key. You can't put together a bunch of high profile players with contrasting personalities and expect them to just come together. Each player needs to be held accountable and have some pressure to perform. The easiest way to get players to perform is to have some real prospects in the minors who are pushing them. Right now, who's pushing a guy like Phillips for a job?

come on, you know as well as i do that phillips will mostly likely won't even be here next season, the mets have brought up some prospects in recent years (reyes and wright) and have signed and traded for some good players (cameron, looper, hidalgo, benson, zambrano, dejean)! the mets have some more work to do but there's something about this team, they can be good team with more help, duquette and wilpon just have to put the right pieces in place, they have to start making more smart baseball decisions, that's it, plain and simple!!!
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FloydNbunch
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TheOne
Aug 15 2004, 08:33 PM
champ4life
Aug 15 2004, 09:19 PM
TheOne
Aug 15 2004, 08:15 PM
i agree with wilpon spending the money but the mets made the right move trading for alomar and the guys they traded for him are doing nothing, heck alex escobar just got released last week, the only deal that sent the mets back was the vaughn deal, they were stuck with him until he got injured! lets remember wilpon (who i can't stand by the way) spent 120 million on the team that offseason, the mets had the 2nd highest payroll in the league so it's not about just spending the money, it's about making smart baseball decisions, which i feel they did this past offseason, they have to improve in the next upcoming offseason and sign a big time bat to lead this offense and i feel the mets will be on their way to becoming playoff contenders once they do that!!!

Bad baseball decisions obviously were key. You can't put together a bunch of high profile players with contrasting personalities and expect them to just come together. Each player needs to be held accountable and have some pressure to perform. The easiest way to get players to perform is to have some real prospects in the minors who are pushing them. Right now, who's pushing a guy like Phillips for a job?

come on, you know as well as i do that phillips will mostly likely won't even be here next season, the mets have brought up some prospects in recent years (reyes and wright) and have signed and traded for some good players (cameron, looper, hidalgo, benson, zambrano, dejean)! the mets have some more work to do but there's something about this team, they can be good team with more help, duquette and wilpon just have to put the right pieces in place, they have to start making more smart baseball decisions, that's it, plain and simple!!!

:thumbup:
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TheOne
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FloydNbunch
Aug 16 2004, 04:03 PM
TheOne
Aug 15 2004, 08:33 PM
champ4life
Aug 15 2004, 09:19 PM
TheOne
Aug 15 2004, 08:15 PM
i agree with wilpon spending the money but the mets made the right move trading for alomar and the guys they traded for him are doing nothing, heck alex escobar just got released last week, the only deal that sent the mets back was the vaughn deal, they were stuck with him until he got injured! lets remember wilpon (who i can't stand by the way) spent 120 million on the team that offseason, the mets had the 2nd highest payroll in the league so it's not about just spending the money, it's about making smart baseball decisions, which i feel they did this past offseason, they have to improve in the next upcoming offseason and sign a big time bat to lead this offense and i feel the mets will be on their way to becoming playoff contenders once they do that!!!

Bad baseball decisions obviously were key. You can't put together a bunch of high profile players with contrasting personalities and expect them to just come together. Each player needs to be held accountable and have some pressure to perform. The easiest way to get players to perform is to have some real prospects in the minors who are pushing them. Right now, who's pushing a guy like Phillips for a job?

come on, you know as well as i do that phillips will mostly likely won't even be here next season, the mets have brought up some prospects in recent years (reyes and wright) and have signed and traded for some good players (cameron, looper, hidalgo, benson, zambrano, dejean)! the mets have some more work to do but there's something about this team, they can be good team with more help, duquette and wilpon just have to put the right pieces in place, they have to start making more smart baseball decisions, that's it, plain and simple!!!

:thumbup:

:D :agent:
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