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What do u guys expect to see from.....
Topic Started: Aug 4 2004, 02:44 PM (284 Views)
SheffIsDaMan11
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Esteban Loaiza tonight?

My guess is 7 innings, 4 runs (3 earned) with flash and rivera throwing 2 scoreless innings


Yanks win 6 to 4 :peace:
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Venom
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7IP 3ER is what I am hoping for! :thumbup:

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SheffIsDaMan11
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Rob Version 1.0
Aug 4 2004, 01:45 PM
7IP 3ER is what I am hoping for! :thumbup:

:hump: :cheers:
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theMETSsuck
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anything past 6 innings w/o giving up more than 3 ER is fine by me.
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cmnyy
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theMETSsuck
Aug 4 2004, 02:52 PM
anything past 6 innings w/o giving up more than 3 ER is fine by me.


A quality start TMS.

With the offense and pen that we have, all we need from the starters are quality starts.





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Arod13
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SheffIsDaMan11
Aug 4 2004, 01:44 PM
Esteban Loaiza tonight?

My guess is 7 innings, 4 runs (3 earned) with flash and rivera throwing 2 scoreless innings


Yanks win 6 to 4 :peace:

That would be great...But what's with the unearned run..u don't believe in the yankee defense?? :smirk:
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Grandy4MVP
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I'd bust a nut for 7 innings and 3 ERs from one of our starters, I think he can do it! :thumbup:
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theMETSsuck
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cmnyy
Aug 4 2004, 03:06 PM
theMETSsuck
Aug 4 2004, 02:52 PM
anything past 6 innings w/o giving up more than 3 ER is fine by me.


A quality start TMS.

With the offense and pen that we have, all we need from the starters are quality starts.

isn't 6 IP & 3 ER basically just that? anything more is gravy like i said...but it would be great to see him pitch well against a potential future playoff lineup...a strong outing here will help alleviate our concerns about who we can rely on for the postseason.
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Arod13
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VinnieTheLush
Aug 4 2004, 02:13 PM
I'd bust a nut for 7 innings and 3 ERs from one of our starters, I think he can do it! :thumbup:

Hey whatup VIN...still taking down them 6 packs like water? ;)
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Mattingly23
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theMETSsuck
Aug 4 2004, 03:15 PM
cmnyy
Aug 4 2004, 03:06 PM
theMETSsuck
Aug 4 2004, 02:52 PM
anything past 6 innings w/o giving up more than 3 ER is fine by me.


A quality start TMS.

With the offense and pen that we have, all we need from the starters are quality starts.

isn't 6 IP & 3 ER basically just that?

It's exactly that. Anything 6 innings pitched and 3 earned runs or better is a quality start. I think cmnyy was agreeing with you.
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Venom
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Arod13
Aug 4 2004, 03:16 PM
VinnieTheLush
Aug 4 2004, 02:13 PM
I'd bust a nut for 7 innings and 3 ERs from one of our starters, I think he can do it!  :thumbup:

Hey whatup VIN...still taking down them 6 packs like water? ;)

Welcome back! :woot:
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cmnyy
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Mattingly23
Aug 4 2004, 03:17 PM
theMETSsuck
Aug 4 2004, 03:15 PM
cmnyy
Aug 4 2004, 03:06 PM
theMETSsuck
Aug 4 2004, 02:52 PM
anything past 6 innings w/o giving up more than 3 ER is fine by me.


A quality start TMS.

With the offense and pen that we have, all we need from the starters are quality starts.

isn't 6 IP & 3 ER basically just that?

It's exactly that. Anything 6 innings pitched and 3 earned runs or better is a quality start. I think cmnyy was agreeing with you.


I was agreeing with him.


Maybe you guys can help me with this. There is a stat called "Quality Start Percentage". Any of you guys see it anywhere? Its hard to find. I'm interested in player season and career %'s, as well overall team stats.


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Arod13
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Rob Version 1.0
Aug 4 2004, 02:19 PM
Arod13
Aug 4 2004, 03:16 PM
VinnieTheLush
Aug 4 2004, 02:13 PM
I'd bust a nut for 7 innings and 3 ERs from one of our starters, I think he can do it!  :thumbup:

Hey whatup VIN...still taking down them 6 packs like water? ;)

Welcome back! :woot:

:agent: :D
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Mattingly23
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cmnyy
Aug 4 2004, 03:30 PM
Maybe you guys can help me with this. There is a stat called "Quality Start Percentage". Any of you guys see it anywhere? Its hard to find. I'm interested in player season and career %'s, as well overall team stats.

I'll check a few of my favorite sites to see if I can find it anywhere. I don't remember seeing it offhand. I'll get back to you.
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Mantlemurcer
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cmnyy
Aug 4 2004, 03:30 PM
Mattingly23
Aug 4 2004, 03:17 PM
theMETSsuck
Aug 4 2004, 03:15 PM
cmnyy
Aug 4 2004, 03:06 PM
theMETSsuck
Aug 4 2004, 02:52 PM
anything past 6 innings w/o giving up more than 3 ER is fine by me.


A quality start TMS.

With the offense and pen that we have, all we need from the starters are quality starts.

isn't 6 IP & 3 ER basically just that?

It's exactly that. Anything 6 innings pitched and 3 earned runs or better is a quality start. I think cmnyy was agreeing with you.


I was agreeing with him.


Maybe you guys can help me with this. There is a stat called "Quality Start Percentage". Any of you guys see it anywhere? Its hard to find. I'm interested in player season and career %'s, as well overall team stats.

I'd like to know who determined that 3 runs in 6 IP (a 4.50 ERA) is a quality start.
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theMETSsuck
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Quote:
 
I'd like to know who determined that 3 runs in 6 IP (a 4.50 ERA) is a quality start.


maybe the same guy who determined that a closer coming into a game in the 9th inning w/a 3 run lead qualifies for a save? :dunno:
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Mattingly23
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Mattingly23
Aug 4 2004, 03:49 PM
cmnyy
Aug 4 2004, 03:30 PM
Maybe you guys can help me with this. There is a stat called "Quality Start Percentage". Any of you guys see it anywhere? Its hard to find. I'm interested in player season and career %'s, as well overall team stats.

I'll check a few of my favorite sites to see if I can find it anywhere. I don't remember seeing it offhand. I'll get back to you.

OK, I found a site. It mostly shows matchups though, so the page I am directing you to will show Harden and Loaiza's quality start percentage (QS%). Maybe play around with the site to find more pitchers. It seems to only show this year's stats, not career stats like you were looking for.

Stats for tonight's starters, including QS%
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Mattingly23
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Mantlemurcer
Aug 4 2004, 03:49 PM

I'd like to know who determined that 3 runs in 6 IP (a 4.50 ERA) is a quality start.

I decided to look into that and check out this interesting information that I found. Apparently the definition is not as cut and dry as we thought:

Quote:
 
QS (Quality Start)
A game started in which a pitcher lasts for six innings or more and allows three runs or less.  Some later variants make it 6 innings with <=2 runs allowed, or 7 or more innings with <=3 runs allowed.  A rough rule of thumb for separating good starts from bad ones, with the noble intent of crediting pitchers with how well they pitched and removing run support from consideration (the major problem with W-L records).  QS are controversial because the boundary case (6 IP, 3 ER) leads to an unimpressive ERA of 4.50, which critics argue is not "quality".  While the point is well-taken, it is still a useful dividing point because (a) most quality starts are not of the 6&3 variety, (b) 6&3 is an easy to remember and use midpoint and © it is relatively close to what a league average performance (a natural dividing line between good and bad) would be, particularly in the higher offense era of the mid 90's.


They mention MM's point of the unimpressive 4.50 ERA, but then explain why people use the 6 and 3 rule -- it is basically the midpoint of the two philosophies of what determines a quality start-- 6 innings with 2 runs runs allowed or 7 or more innings with 3 runs allowed.

Stat Glossary
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Mantlemurcer
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Mattingly23
Aug 4 2004, 04:00 PM
Mantlemurcer
Aug 4 2004, 03:49 PM

I'd like to know who determined that 3 runs in 6 IP (a 4.50 ERA) is a quality start.

I decided to look into that and check out this interesting information that I found. Apparently the definition is not as cut and dry as we thought:

Quote:
 
QS (Quality Start)
A game started in which a pitcher lasts for six innings or more and allows three runs or less.  Some later variants make it 6 innings with <=2 runs allowed, or 7 or more innings with <=3 runs allowed.  A rough rule of thumb for separating good starts from bad ones, with the noble intent of crediting pitchers with how well they pitched and removing run support from consideration (the major problem with W-L records).  QS are controversial because the boundary case (6 IP, 3 ER) leads to an unimpressive ERA of 4.50, which critics argue is not "quality".  While the point is well-taken, it is still a useful dividing point because (a) most quality starts are not of the 6&3 variety, (b) 6&3 is an easy to remember and use midpoint and © it is relatively close to what a league average performance (a natural dividing line between good and bad) would be, particularly in the higher offense era of the mid 90's.


They mention MM's point of the unimpressive 4.50 ERA, but then explain why people use the 6 and 3 rule -- it is basically the midpoint of the two philosophies of what determines a quality start-- 6 innings with 2 runs runs allowed or 7 or more innings with 3 runs allowed.

Stat Glossary

I think some pitcher's agent probably came up with this hold thing. Just like Holds.
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cmnyy
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Mattingly23
Aug 4 2004, 03:55 PM
Mattingly23
Aug 4 2004, 03:49 PM
cmnyy
Aug 4 2004, 03:30 PM
Maybe you guys can help me with this. There is a stat called "Quality Start Percentage". Any of you guys see it anywhere? Its hard to find. I'm interested in player season and career %'s, as well overall team stats.

I'll check a few of my favorite sites to see if I can find it anywhere. I don't remember seeing it offhand. I'll get back to you.

OK, I found a site. It mostly shows matchups though, so the page I am directing you to will show Harden and Loaiza's quality start percentage (QS%). Maybe play around with the site to find more pitchers. It seems to only show this year's stats, not career stats like you were looking for.

Stats for tonight's starters, including QS%


Awesome. Thanks Matt23. This is a step in the right direction.

I'd like to see this stat used more often. It's a very informative stat, especially for a team like we have. If the starter can just keep us in the game, our offense will win tons of games.


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cmnyy
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Last year I was looking for a percentage of inherited runners allowed to score stat. (I still think we need that.) This year, its quality starts for me. :laugh:


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cmnyy
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By the way, ESPN does track quality starts, just not the %.

ESPN Stats



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Mattingly23
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cmnyy
Aug 4 2004, 04:08 PM
By the way, ESPN does track quality starts, just not the %.

ESPN Stats

I have trouble getting on ESPN.com from work, so I didn't even look there. That should make it easy for you to calculate the percentage then, cmnyy.
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Mantlemurcer
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cmnyy
Aug 4 2004, 04:06 PM
Last year I was looking for a percentage of inherited runners allowed to score stat. (I still think we need that.) This year, its quality starts for me. :laugh:

I thought it was quality trips to the bathroom. :think:
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cmnyy
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Mattingly23
Aug 4 2004, 04:00 PM
Mantlemurcer
Aug 4 2004, 03:49 PM

I'd like to know who determined that 3 runs in 6 IP (a 4.50 ERA) is a quality start.

I decided to look into that and check out this interesting information that I found. Apparently the definition is not as cut and dry as we thought:

Quote:
 
QS (Quality Start)
A game started in which a pitcher lasts for six innings or more and allows three runs or less.  Some later variants make it 6 innings with <=2 runs allowed, or 7 or more innings with <=3 runs allowed.  A rough rule of thumb for separating good starts from bad ones, with the noble intent of crediting pitchers with how well they pitched and removing run support from consideration (the major problem with W-L records).  QS are controversial because the boundary case (6 IP, 3 ER) leads to an unimpressive ERA of 4.50, which critics argue is not "quality".  While the point is well-taken, it is still a useful dividing point because (a) most quality starts are not of the 6&3 variety, (b) 6&3 is an easy to remember and use midpoint and © it is relatively close to what a league average performance (a natural dividing line between good and bad) would be, particularly in the higher offense era of the mid 90's.


They mention MM's point of the unimpressive 4.50 ERA, but then explain why people use the 6 and 3 rule -- it is basically the midpoint of the two philosophies of what determines a quality start-- 6 innings with 2 runs runs allowed or 7 or more innings with 3 runs allowed.

Stat Glossary


The Quality Start is a Useful Statistic

Along those same lines: (Old article (1992), but a good read.)

Quote:
 
While discussing some of the pros and cons of quality starts as a statistic, he noted that there had been criticism (by Moss Klein, writing in The Sporting News) of the quality start in that it would be possible in principle for a pitcher to go exactly six innings in every start and allow exactly three earned runs each time, compiling an ERA of 4.50, although each start would be categorized as a quality start. Moss that this possibility invalidated the entire concept. Bill thought Klein's criticism was an unreasonable extreme example and he ventured that "...I doubt that any pitcher had an ERA higher than 3.20 in his quality starts."
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cmnyy
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Mantlemurcer
Aug 4 2004, 04:13 PM
cmnyy
Aug 4 2004, 04:06 PM
Last year I was looking for a percentage of inherited runners allowed to score stat. (I still think we need that.) This year, its quality starts for me.  :laugh:

I thought it was quality trips to the bathroom. :think:


:laugh:

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cmnyy
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ESPN does list Quality Start Percentage:

QS%

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cmnyy
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A couple of the guys near the top of this list are free agents at the end of the year: Brad Radke, Russ Ortiz, Matt Clement, Carl Pavano and Odalis Perez to name a few. (I'm not including Pedro. Fu<k him.) These are all guys we should be looking at.

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amit
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Clement and Ortiz are trash.

I want to get Livan Hernandez and sign Odalis Perez.
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cmnyy
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Every one of those guys would be an improvement Amit. But there really aren't any aces in the bunch. I'd try to get two of them, and not spend anything over a million on any position players (highly unlikely though).


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