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Knicks Eye Ilgauskas; Cavs Asking About Kurt Thomas!!!
Topic Started: Jul 12 2004, 04:35 AM (525 Views)
Strider
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Forget Van Horn, I wish Spree were never traded.


I liked that trade. Sprewell was overrated by the fans. He averaged about the same ppg that Van Horn did and he had become a 40% FG shooter. Van Horn was a true SF, shot a better percentage, gave us some size, and was a better rebounder. I don't like the reason why Sprewell left, but I was all for moving him.

I also liked the Tim Thomas trade. His scoring was similar to KVH's, but he added more athletism. He didn't show much of it with us, but I remember a bunch of highlight reel dunks against us. Isaiah wanted to add someone who could run the break with Marbury and possibly improve our defense. It didn't workout the way we would have liked, but TT did average about 18 ppg with us.

Juan, was it you who said something like, "Why the hell is Thomas coming off the bench. We don't have to start Sweetney"? Do you realize how out of position and undersized our lineup would be? A point guard would be playing small forward and our small forward would be the power forward. Tim Thomas is listed as being bigger than Kurt Thomas (6'10"/240 to 6'9"/230) but just looking at him, he's not a big man. We'd either have to trade Tim "Tough Talking" Thomas and go with the small lineup or put J-Craw on the bench.
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Allanfan20
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Unless the Knicks trade for Antoine Walker, then Tim Thomas should be starting for a few reasons. 1) He is a better player than Crawford, at this point. 2) If anyone starts at the small foward, it's Penny, but Tim Thomas has much more talent (At this point in their careers) and athletic ability. Therefore, TT is the starter.

Riphamilton, aka Briggs, gave a great suggestion and alernative to Jamal Crawford. In fact, it's better than Crawford. If the Clippers don't match the Suns offer for Quentin Richardson, then Joe Johnson becomes more available then he was in the first place, and I think he was rather available. We should go after him, as he is a better player, hands down, than Crawford, and probably a lot cheaper.

If Allan Houston has a fairly healthy season, Jamal totally doesn't make sense for this season. We already have our scorers. We already have Ariza who could be just as good as Crawford in the future. We have our PGs. It's the frontcourt that needs work on. Big Z would be OK, but Dampier helps us on defense big time, and that's what we need. If we can sign him to the MLE, like he said he would, then we are in great shape, b/c he can easily be traded, if he doesn't work out for us.
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MastaR316
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How the hell was TT clutch? Do you people have short memories or something? Remember that game vs the Bucks where we was down 26 in the half? Or that other game where he took us to OT and scored 26 points between the 2nd half and OT? He had more games where he scored a lot in the 2nd half. And lets not forget about that Wizards game either, where we was supposed to lose and still came back and won. He talks a lot of sh*t, but that does not mean he is not starting material. Houston is still a better player than Crawford, so Crawford could be the 6th man one more season.
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Allanfan20
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I agree with MastaR. There are a lot of things I DON'T like about Timmy, and there are things that I do like. One of the things I like about him is his ability to hit clutch shots. He has hit a number of them, for us, during the regular season. I can't stress how important it it to have clutch shooters on your team. That's what wins championships. I am not saying TT will take us to the promise land, but, he is still a clutch shooter.
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Mattingly23
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A couple of games doesn't make a player clutch. Tim Thomas is the poster boy for underachieving. I hope he reaches his potential, but he was expected to be a lot better than he is.
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Allanfan20
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I agree, but my point was that he can be trusted to take a shot during a clutch situation.
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champ4life

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I don't trust any Knick to take a shot in a clutch situation. Not even TT. Historically, the Knicks are one of the biggest choking franchises in NBA history.
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Houston is our most clutch player.
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Allanfan20
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champ4life
Jul 12 2004, 10:45 PM
I don't trust any Knick to take a shot in a clutch situation. Not even TT. Historically, the Knicks are one of the biggest choking franchises in NBA history.

I totally disagree. Allan, Stephon, Penny, Tim Thomas, even Moochie, can all hit clutch shots. Yes, it is true that sometimes we have folded, but we have risen above it all, just as many times in our history.
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Mattingly23
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Allanfan20
Jul 13 2004, 11:10 AM
...... even Moochie, can all hit clutch shots.

Yeah, AGAINST the Knicks! Once he lost the 'fro, he lost the mojo.
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Strider
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He should have never cut that 'fro. It didn't get as much attention as Ben's, but it was actually more wild and goofy looking.

The Knicks are down by 2 with 3 seconds left, who do you want to take the shot?
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Allanfan20
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Allan, but Stephon gets my nod too. And I say Allan over Steph just b/c I've seen him hit a lot of clutch shots. Steph can take over and is our best player and superstar, but I think Allan is as reliable as anyone, besides the Kobes of the world, to take that final J.
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champ4life

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I can remember only about 3 big clutch shots Houston has made: the floater against Miami, the game tying three against Toronto, the game tying three against Dallas. Steph's big one was the one against San Antonio 2 years ago. All in all, in close games I don't like the Knicks' chances. If Moochie of all people could kill the Knicks, then the Knicks must be chokers. :laugh:
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Strider
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When Moochie hit that 3, the entire defense had collapsed on Steve Francis and Moochie was left wide open. Which is what we saw all of last season. I'd love to know exactly how many wide open perimeter shots we gave up last season.
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TheOne
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Jul 13 2004, 12:11 PM
He should have never cut that 'fro. It didn't get as much attention as Ben's, but it was actually more wild and goofy looking.

The Knicks are down by 2 with 3 seconds left, who do you want to take the shot?

houston!!! :peace:
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Allanfan20
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champ4life
Jul 13 2004, 02:53 PM
I can remember only about 3 big clutch shots Houston has made: the floater against Miami, the game tying three against Toronto, the game tying three against Dallas. Steph's big one was the one against San Antonio 2 years ago. All in all, in close games I don't like the Knicks' chances. If Moochie of all people could kill the Knicks, then the Knicks must be chokers. :laugh:

Typical Knick fan. Allan has hit countless clutch shots for us over his career. Most of the fans are so bitter towards his contract (Which is not even his fault. It's Dolans and Laydens fault) that they are totally blind of the good things that Allan has done for the Knicks. You obviously don't remember schooling Kobe and Derek Fisher (Kobe All NBA defensive player, and Fisher is a very underrated defender) for 53 IN LA.
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MastaR316
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That's what I am saying Allan. Some of these guys dont appreciate their own players for anything, unless they were on other teams. It's very say.
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champ4life

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No. You missed the point. Allan is my favorite player on these Knicks and despite his contract I want him to stay. All I'm saying is that no Knick is clutch in comparision to the rest of the league. If the Knicks are down by 2 with 3 seconds left, it's a good bet the Knicks will lose. Not that that detracts me from being a diehard Knick fan.
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Mattingly23
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MastaR316
Jul 13 2004, 09:11 PM
That's what I am saying Allan. Some of these guys dont appreciate their own players for anything, unless they were on other teams. It's very say.

Give me a break. I hope Tim Thomas has a breakout year, but the fact remains that he has been more of a disappointment in our league (as Hubie Brown would say) than anything. He has not fullfilled his potential yet. He's a nice player, but he doesn't deserve my praise yet. Maybe cut back on the teams you root for and you'll see things straighter. No more Nets.
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Allanfan20
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Can't argue with that. He's an underachiever. I'm willing to give him a year, but if we trade him, I wouldn't exactly be on my knees, in tears.
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MastaR316
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Yes, he is an underachiever. But what the hell do you think people expected of him? It was to be a superstar. He is not a superstar, but he is a damn good roleplayer. I go to many message boards, and what I see is people dissing their own players that people here would die to have on their teams. Coincidence? I think not. Saying that TT did not do a good job for us was BS, when most of the time he scored when it mattered, in the 2nd half. I forgot who was it that trade for him? Wasn´t it the oh so great 2nd half player Van Horn?
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Mattingly23
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MastaR316
Jul 14 2004, 02:25 AM
I go to many message boards, and what I see is people dissing their own players that people here would die to have on their teams.

Name me players on the Knicks besides Marbury that people "would die to have on their teams." Plus some fans wouldn't even want Marbury. I do, but many fans have either had him and tired of him, or know his routine of wearing out welcomes. Fans are not dying to have Tim Thomas on their teams. Milwaukee was thrilled to rid themselves of his contract.

I know what you're saying, that fans of other teams diss the players we'd die to have on the Knicks. OK, I'll believe you on that one since I don't go to message boards for other teams. However, the Knicks don't really have many of those types of players. I'll give you a chance to explain if you think they do have those players and if Tim Thomas is one of them.
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Strider
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I'm sure that there are a number of Atlanta Hawks message boards. :dunno:
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Mattingly23
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Jul 14 2004, 09:52 AM
I'm sure that there are a number of Atlanta Hawks message boards. :dunno:

Doubtful. They have no fans! In fact, Atlanta pro sports has no real fans!
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Strider
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They like Vick.
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Mattingly23
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Jul 14 2004, 10:10 AM
They like Vick.

That doesn't make them good pro sports fans.
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Strider
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I know they're not. The Braves have been a top team for how long and they don't even support them. The Vick comment was meant as, "Well....atleast they like Vick."
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MastaR316
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I'll give you a chance to explain if you think they do have those players and if Tim Thomas is one of them.


Last week on the ESPN boards, some guy was like we should trade Vince Carter for Tim Thomas and Michael Sweetney. Much to my suprise, a lot of those fans agreed with the topic creator. I know the RealGM board has its fair share of dumb people, but I've seen countless of topic about them inquiring to get Marbury , Houston and Kurt. All I am saying is that these players are good players, who are underappreciatted since they are the players people here most of the time. Take Stromile Swift for example, not too many Grizzlies fans are infatuated by him. They say that he has a low basketball I.Q. and is too much of a liability on the offensive end. But then again, most people here want him not knowing about this.
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