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| them stupid Walker runmors again! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 22 2004, 10:04 AM (709 Views) | |
| theMETSsuck | Jun 29 2004, 09:44 PM Post #31 |
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don'tcha just HATE those selfish PF's who average over 4 assists a game every year? SILLINESS! :dance: |
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| rsj23terp | Jun 29 2004, 10:33 PM Post #32 |
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Mark Cuban is trying to trade him, I wonder why he'd praise him publically. Go ahead and get him if you want, but consider yourself forewarned. You're getting a 39% shooter and a power forward who played 20 feet from the basket. Enjoy. |
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| Mattingly23 | Jun 29 2004, 10:38 PM Post #33 |
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Funnily enough, I just logged on after a nice 11-3 Yankee win over Boston expecting to read some baseball posts, but I happened to see there were some new replies about Antoine Walker, so I gave them a look first. Lets go through things piece by piece. First of all, this is all I have said in this thread:
(In response to a Celtic fan who got to watch Walker on his favorite team for several seasons.)
So nowhere did I rip apart anything you said. I didn't call you any names. I didn't say your opinion sucks. I suppose if I put "IMO" at the end, I would have been ok. I assumed all of my statements would easily be construed as my opinions. I guess not. Wasn't it you today who told me not to start anything with you on a thread that you didn't say anything negative to me? Right, I thought so. How am I a moron who doesn't know anything? Is it because I didn't write "IMO" or that you don't agree with my opinion? How about Terp or Nick Jett's opinions? Are they morons who don't know anything? Terp is a Celtic fan, who works in sports for a living. Nick Jett is a former high school basketball player, who was recruited by colleges. Do they not understand basketball like you don't think I do? I know both Nick Jett and I both have the NBA League Pass and watch a sick amount of basketball, including the Celtics and Mavericks. We don't only see the games that are against the Knicks on MSG, the Nets on YES, or the ESPN, TNT, and ESPN games. We watch all the games. I've certainly never claimed to be a basketball expert, but I know I don't want Antoine Walker on the team I root for. That's that.
Oh, Mark Cuban is a GM and master talent evaluator who has been in basketball all his life? No. Mark Cuban is you or me with about a half a billion more dollars. He was a Mavs fan, sold his Internet broadcasting company, and bought the Mavericks. I'd love to be in his place, but there's a reason he has guys like Don Nelson, Donn Nelson, Donnn Nelson, Donnnn Nelson, and Lt. Frank Drebin on his payroll. Those are lifelong basketball minds. (If that went over your head, it's a Sports Guy joke referring to the two Nelsons and Del Harris, who has an uncanny resemblance to Leslie Nielsen.) Do you expect him to say bad things about a player still on his roster? I can list a few reasons why he would want to be very complimentary of Walker: 1. He wants Antoine to have max value in any potential trades. 2. He spoke the truth-- Walker is versatile and can play multiple positions. 3. Mark Cuban tries to be buddies with the players he employs. Like I said, he is a fan, and the past 4 or so years have been amazing for him. He owns a team he rooted for from the worst seats in the former Reunion Arena back in the day. Hell, he's probably smoked up with Antoine before! (tongue in cheek) 4. If a trade doesn't work out, he obviously wants to be in good graces with his players.
Hmm, maybe because he was losing a friend and the second scoring option on the team and saw that he was essentially only getting Raef freakin' LaFrentz back in return? Maybe because he didn't like the direction management was going? You can bet that if the Knicks deal of Latrell Sprewell for Walker went through, Paul Pierce would feel a little better about the deal. Again, thanks for the moron comment. It really stings.
Do you realize how ridiculous you are being by putting that line below your avatar? Are you little obsessed with me? Do you even realize how the whole "silliness" thing started? I believe it was your good buddy yank5k who wrote a completely pointless post, which as usual, made little to no sense. I simply replied "silliness." I wasn't trying to be funny and certainly wasn't trying to be cool. I just thought the word silliness summed up my thoughts best. Lots of people thought it was hilarious for some reason, and started using it. No big deal. I am glad I made people laugh. I try to do that sometimes, but not in that case. There's nothing cool about saying "silliness." It's a word. That's it. As for the cool club you made reference to earlier today, I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. I know 4 members personally, all friends: Nick Jett, rsj23terp, MetsIn2020, and BleacherCreature. It's certainly not a club. They're just friends. I do think they're all cool guys, but why would I hang out with people that I don't think are cool? Why don't you just accept that some Knick fans want no part of Antoine Walker? It's ok if you want him. It's ok if Masta wants him. I don't. Nick Jett doesn't. Terp does want him on the Knicks, but only because he hates the Knicks. We're all entitled to our opinions of players. I don't only go by stats or what Mark Cuban says. Try opening your eyes and watching some more games before you call someone a moron for not wanting a player and thinking he is selfish. If you have seen a lot of him and still want him, that's fine too. I'm just not going to be including "IMO" at the end of all of my posts to appease you. Feel free to reply with something more than :please: if you want. If that's all you want to say, go right ahead. |
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| BleacherCreature | Jun 29 2004, 10:58 PM Post #34 |
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1. you mean he keeps his eyes closed when he's watching basketball too ?? 2. dont try to appease this jerkoff , let him have it everytime he opens his mouth to say something more worthless than the last thing he said . 3.he has to reply with retarded ass icons because he has absolutely nothing to say thats not complete double talk , or just totally moronic . Great post Matty , hope you didnt get Contreras-like hand cramps from typing it , although i figure HOse' got his from finally getting to finger bang his wife after a couple of years . |
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| rsj23terp | Jun 29 2004, 11:18 PM Post #35 |
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"I wanna fingerbang bang you into my life I wanna fingerbang bang you all night long" |
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| theMETSsuck | Jun 30 2004, 09:37 AM Post #36 |
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Matt, you & i have been on each other's case for a while now, so this should be nothing new to you...please don't pretend like you're an innocent player in this...i happened to think your "he's a selfish player" comment was completely unsubstantiated...you didn't back it up w/any facts, stats or anything...just that you thought he was a selfish player...obviously, that opinion isn't shared by the guy who employed him last season, OR by the star teammate that played alongside him for years in Boston...you were wrong...it's OK to be wrong. as for my "moron" comment, i apologize...it was immature of me, but you have to admit, you haven't been exactly complementary towards my posts either...so i don't see why you would take issue w/that...but if you did, i retract the insult if it will make you feel better. & BleacherCreature :shhh: |
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| Mattingly23 | Jun 30 2004, 10:01 AM Post #37 |
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I just explained my thinking on both Cuban and Pierce's comments. Was the post too long for you to read? I'd think you have more of an attention span than some of the teeny boppers on here. I'm not wrong. |
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| theMETSsuck | Jun 30 2004, 10:18 AM Post #38 |
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see, that's your problem dude...you can never accept it when someone calls you out on your opinions & admit that you might have spoken w/o knowledge of all the facts...i just gave you a direct quote from the guy he worked for last year, the owner, who is ALOT more tuned in to the goings on around his team & his players than you or any other "fan" is...you dismissed all that by saying he was only another fan like you & me...please, find a valid point & maybe i'll give it consideration. you said he was a "selfish player"...give me some more solid evidence than "i think he's selfish"...a PF who averages over 4 assists per game over his career & you call him selfish...a guy who was respected & liked on the team he played for his entire career by their star player & you call him "selfish"...a guy who did everything that was asked of him last year on a new team while trying to find his role & help the team win games, & you call him "selfish"...where is your proof? give me more solid facts than just "Mark Cuban's opinion doesn't matter because he's a fan"...that's just plain silliness...read your post over again...you didn't present 1 solid fact at all to counter it. stop listening to the crap that is being said on ESPN & on message boards & start listening to those who actually know what they're talking about...if his teammates & guys he's worked for say he's a good teammate, i would tend to agree w/them. |
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| Mattingly23 | Jun 30 2004, 10:46 AM Post #39 |
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Other than Cuban being a rich fan, I gave you reasons why he would be complimentary of a player on his team. I listed them. Go back and read them.
4 assists a game? Wow. If you open your eyes and WATCH the games, he doesn't play like a power forward. He handles the ball and chucks up 3's. That's not your typical power forward, so stop acting like these 4 assists are coming from a prototypical power forward like Charles Oakley.
No facts needed. I WATCH the games.
This is ridiculous. I think you are missing my entire point, but that's not surprising. I don't know how many times I need to say this, but I don't listen to things being said on ESPN or on message boards. I WATCH THE GAMES. I formulate my OWN opinions. That's what I have been saying all along. I think the guy is selfish and I don't want him on the team I root for. I. I. I. I'm not basing this on some talking heads on ESPN. I'm certainly not listening to any people on a message board to formulate my opinion on Walker. I don't want him. I don't like him as a player. I don't like his game. I don't care about the 4 assists a game. I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. You can like him all you want. I don't like him. |
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| theMETSsuck | Jun 30 2004, 11:00 AM Post #40 |
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i could care less if you don't want him or not...you said he was a selfish player w/o giving any solid proof other than "i think he's selfish" & that your buddies agree w/u...i'm just pointing that out...you stated an opinion w/no factual proof whatsoever & only presented the point that "from what you see, he's selfish"...please, try again. so you have NBA League pass...congratu-freakin-lations! what does that have to do w/what i asked you? you said he was a selfish player...give me some stats or other solid proof that would back up that OPINION other than just telling me you watch the games & that's how you feel about it...i gave you a direct quote from his boss last year, & have pointed out how his past teammate has shown what he thought of him along w/career numbers which would show he's not a selfish player...the fact that he throws up 3 pointers doesn't even speak to this issue...you said he was selfish...show me how he's selfish. |
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| rsj23terp | Jun 30 2004, 11:05 AM Post #41 |
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Walker is a shooting guard in a power forward's body. Quoting 4 assists per game as evidence that he's not selfish shows that you've never really seen him play. When he was on the floor with the Celtics, either he or Pierce had the ball 85% of the time. I'll admit it, Walker often deferred to Pierce when it became clear that was the way to go. So maybe he's not a selfish player, just a bad player who shoots too much, occupies the ball too much, and doesn't rebound. Why isn't anybody listening to me, I watched the fat bastard play for years? You think i'm making this up? Why do you think I would want the Knicks to get Walker? Because i'm secretly a Knicks fan? Hell no. |
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| Mattingly23 | Jun 30 2004, 11:14 AM Post #42 |
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None of that matters. You need to provide direct quotes. You are not entitled to your opinion on a player. That's what I have learned this morning. I'm not supposed to listen to ESPN personalities (which I don't) or people on a message board (I certainly don't formulate my opinions based on other fans that I don't know. If my Mom logged on and posted some stats, would that mean she knows basketball?), but then I have to find quotes from other people in order for my opinion to be relevant? Does that make any sense? I don't know how many times I have to say that my opinion is based on what I have watched over the years. It's not good enough for the all-knowing tMS, who doesn't even give his own opinion, but would rather focus on quotes from Mark Cuban and throwing some stats, in particular 4 assists a game, out at me. |
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| rsj23terp | Jun 30 2004, 11:29 AM Post #43 |
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So when I work for ESPN at some point my opinion will become valid? I have access to just as much information as anybody in the ESPN newsroom at this point, with the added bonus of watching Walker play very frequently. For the record, everybody who thinks that working for ESPN means your opinion is more valid that anybody else is kidding themselves. Their opinions are no more or less insightful than anybody who watches the games. Let me sum up sports reporting in an easy-to-digest formula: 1) Watch/attend games 2) Talk to players coaches 3) Opine That's it. So if Stephen A. Smith doesn't think Walker is a selfish player, he's still making an opinion based mostly on the same info anybody can get. I don't even know if Stephen A. thinks that way, but using him as an example of one of ESPN's "talking heads." |
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| Mattingly23 | Jun 30 2004, 11:33 AM Post #44 |
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So you're saying that my ability to formulate an opinion without using the experts or using direct quotes is valid? Are you sure? That's what I thought before today too, but I was told otherwise. |
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| theMETSsuck | Jun 30 2004, 11:56 AM Post #45 |
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unsubstantiated opinions are worthless...but i guess you think you are so informed that you don't need any justification for making any kind of statement you want...i see how you think...pretty arrogant of you if you ask me. |
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| rsj23terp | Jun 30 2004, 11:58 AM Post #46 |
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I don't know you about you, Matty, but i'm tired of trying to reason with this instigator. Enjoy Walker. "Walker for three (again)....clang." |
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| theMETSsuck | Jun 30 2004, 12:03 PM Post #47 |
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what does that have to do w/this conversation? i asked Mattingly why he said Walker was selfish...he has yet to provide any other reason other than "it's my opinion".
G, i wonder why the 2 best players on that team would have the ball in their hands 85% of the time...when you have allstars like Eric Williams, Tony Battie, Walter McCarty & others who would be SUCH better options...what a ballhog he is! :laugh:
which tends to support my argument, wouldn't you say?
who averages 19/8/4 for his career...riiiiiiiiiight :clap:
again, you are free to your own opinion to say you wouldn't want him on your team, but to say he's a selfish player w/o giving any solid proof is silliness...IN MY OPINION! (Sorry, didn't want to leave that out) |
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| rsj23terp | Jun 30 2004, 12:13 PM Post #48 |
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You deserve Antoine Walker. I REALLY hope the Knicks get him, so that after his 3rd straight night of 8-22 shooting you can come on here and rip him. Oooohhh, a power forward who gets 8 RPG, amazing. Ooooooh, 19 PPG, sure is tough when you average almost 19 shots per game (including 5 3-PT attempts) Ooooooh, a whole 4 APG. You have no idea how much I want the Knicks to get Walker. With the Celtics in full rebuilding mode, I need a source of amusement, and tracking Walker's failure in NY would suit me just fine. I can't wait to see him hold the ball for the entire shot clock, then jack a three from 25 feet. Or pull up on the break and fire a three with nobody under the hoop. Or, god forbid he go down to the post for a second, so he can shuffle his feet then throw up a baby hook that has relatively no chance of going in. God, I'd love it. |
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| theMETSsuck | Jun 30 2004, 12:18 PM Post #49 |
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whatever dude...i'll take Walker over Kurt Thomas or any of the other garbage expiring contract players we have right now. |
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| Mattingly23 | Jul 14 2004, 12:57 PM Post #50 |
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The free agent and sign-and-trade period has officially begun and I still want no part of Antoine Walker. |
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| Grandy4MVP | Jul 14 2004, 12:59 PM Post #51 |
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Couldn't agree more.....this guy is useless, his stats mean sh*t! |
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| Grandy4MVP | Jul 14 2004, 01:01 PM Post #52 |
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That is the perfect example of a Antoine line score......he's terrible. I almost want to vomit when I see him shot a three.....the biggest joke in sports history was this cat being in the 3 pt shootout a couple of years back. |
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| Grandy4MVP | Jul 14 2004, 01:09 PM Post #53 |
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I'm a Magic fan and I'll sum it up like this.......I would not want ANY part of 'Toine.........he's garbage and yes he is selfish. He has 4 assists per game because he plays 25 feet from the basket. If you offered him to me for Drew Gooden , a cat who I can't stand at times......I would turn it down. Last thing I want is someone launching up about 19 of the ugliest shots you might ever see.....and maybe making 5-7 of them. I hope the Knicks get him, then you will see how much you wish you had KT back. |
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| Strider | Jul 14 2004, 01:18 PM Post #54 |
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I'm not that down on Walker. Not because I like his game (I took shots at his shots earlier in this thread) but because of his expiring contract. That's $13M off the cap. Do you know how bad the Knicks cap situation is? A dollar ain't a lot, but for a homeless person, you take what you can get. That's how it is for us. #1 priority for the Knicks would be the fella in my signature, followed by Ilgauskas, Jamal Crawford, and then 'Toine Walker. |
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| Allanfan20 | Jul 14 2004, 01:19 PM Post #55 |
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Greatest Poster Ever!!!!!
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I have to say at first, I did't want any part of Walker, but I've done some thinking. What if we have him play the small foward position and just use TT as a backup, or shop him around? That would give 3 scoring options in the starting lineup, and we can shift Walker to the 4, when Sweetney sits on the bench. Marbury would handle the ball the most, and Walker can have his usual point foward role, and Houston can have his usual spot up shooting and isolation one on one role. That's a killer lineup, considering that Walker is what Tim Thomas really should be like. Then you have Sweetney as the starting 4 in the post, and hopefully Dampier at center. Not so bad, right? I think it's pretty good. |
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| Strider | Jul 14 2004, 01:21 PM Post #56 |
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Legend
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Actually, Tim Thomas is a better player than Antoine. He's a true SF, rather than a PF with a point guard mind. A power forward should never lead the league in 3 pointers attempted and he should never shoot 39% from the field. |
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| Allanfan20 | Jul 14 2004, 01:33 PM Post #57 |
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Greatest Poster Ever!!!!!
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I don't know about that. Antoine is a 20/8/5 guy. He shoots 39% from the field, but he's still aggresive, and TT lacks that. TT averages 5 rebounds a game and doesn't make the team better. That's your opinion though, and I can't knock you for it. I just think 'Toine is a much better fit than Tim Thomas AAAAAAAAAAAAAND Big Z. If we get both 'Toine and Dampier, I think we'd be in real good shape. Plus, 'Toine is tradeable as hell, so if he doesn't work out, then we either just don't resign him, or we can trade him for someone younger with a nice upside. |
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| Strider | Jul 14 2004, 01:40 PM Post #58 |
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I know that Walker is more talented than Thomas. He's a big man who can handle the ball, shoot, and has an inside game. His problem is that he doesn't use what he has. Rather than banging in the post and using that 6'9"/245 lbs. body, he's jacking up 25 footers like a 5'6" point guard. If he came here, the only scorer that we would have that can get inside would be Stephon Marbury. Walker is Allan Houston with more rebounding and a lower shooting percentage. I think that his contract is his biggest plus. I'd gladly trade Tim Thomas for him. At some point, the Knicks need to free up some cap room and Walker would be a pretty good start. |
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| Allanfan20 | Jul 14 2004, 02:38 PM Post #59 |
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Greatest Poster Ever!!!!!
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Good point. |
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| Mattingly23 | Jul 14 2004, 02:55 PM Post #60 |
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Clearing $13 million off a $90 million payroll does little to nothing. All it does is loses that slot that used to belong to Sprewell, then Van Horn, and now Tim Thomas. If that spot is cleared, you don't get to replace it, if you're still over the cap. If the goal were to clear the cap, Marbury would have to be moved. They gave up on any chance of clearing cap space when they made the Marbury/Penny trade. Well they started down this road with the Ewing and Rice trades, but the Marbury trade showed us they plan to continue to live in cap hell for years to come. |
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