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Bernie is still a crowd favorite...; ...even if the "fans" here want him gone
Topic Started: May 14 2004, 10:27 AM (469 Views)
Mattingly23
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He first played for the big club in 1991. Rivera did not do that until 1995. Jeter got his first big-league licks that season. Jorge Posada got into one game in '95. Williams was a vet by then. He has not played as long in the Yankee Stadium outfield as Mickey Mantle did. But he is getting close. Each year, it becomes a little harder for Yankee fans to embrace these new players, no matter how good they are, as their team becomes the QVC Yankees more and more. It is different with Williams. He has been here. It is why the Stadium roots so hard for him to still be a big player.



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Mattingly talked then about watching Williams grow up in baseball, the way Yankee fans have, talked about how Yankee fans who have been around - not the ones who decided they were madly in love with the Yankees in October of 1996 - root as hard for Bernie Williams as they do for anybody in the place.


ENTIRE ARTICLE by Mike Lupica (Daily News)
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Yanks473
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And the Band played on......
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Bernie is my second favorite player and I would never boo him but I know when he's done and he's done.
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KOCUR

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Who cares if he's loved...sports is a business...and there's not 'love" in bizness...If he continues to slump ...he should be reduced to a PH role.
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theMETSsuck
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the reality is that Bernie's not getting any younger...just because people are suggesting he take on more of a DH role in the near future doesn't mean they are any less of a Yankee fan than those who have been around since before '96.
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Mattingly23
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theMETSsuck
May 14 2004, 12:03 PM
the reality is that Bernie's not getting any younger...just because people are suggesting he take on more of a DH role in the near future doesn't mean they are any less of a Yankee fan than those who have been around since before '96.

I'm talking about the people who think he should retire, either effective immediately or at the end of this season. Players normally don't retire in the middle of a long-term deal. I'm all for him getting more time as the DH, as long as Giambi feels well enough to play first.

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Bernie is my second favorite player and I would never boo him but I know when he's done and he's done.


Bernie is not done.
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Mantlemurcer
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The people who boo him should be thrown over the upper deck. This what have you done for me lately attitude is bullsh*t.
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theMETSsuck
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Mattingly23
May 14 2004, 11:11 AM
theMETSsuck
May 14 2004, 12:03 PM
the reality is that Bernie's not getting any younger...just because people are suggesting he take on more of a DH role in the near future doesn't mean they are any less of a Yankee fan than those who have been around since before '96.

I'm talking about the people who think he should retire, either effective immediately or at the end of this season. Players normally don't retire in the middle of a long-term deal. I'm all for him getting more time as the DH, as long as Giambi feels well enough to play first.

ok, then i agree w/u there...i think so far, that Giambi is handling the 1B fulltime position well...he doesn't have nearly the range that Travis Lee does, but he's not been that much of a liability there either...& he seems to hit better when he's playing 1B as opposed to DHing anyway...so since he's not going anywhere in any trades for the foreseeable future, i think the best solution would be to upgrade the defense in CF next year w/a star player like Beltran & moving Bernie to DH fulltime & filling in some time in the field as needed...then carry Bubba Crosby as a 4th/5th OFer fill-in.

1 - Jeter SS ®
2 - Beltran CF (S)
3 - A-Rod 3B ®
4 - Giambi 1B (L)
5 - Sheffield RF ®
6 - Posada C (S)
7 - Bernie DH (S)
8 - Matsui LF (L)
9 - Cairo or Boone 2B ®

that is one kick ass lineup & it's very possible that could be the lineup next season & for the next several years.
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Mantlemurcer
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2 - Beltran CF (S)


That could be here in July :o
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Strider
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Quote:
 
Bernie is my second favorite player and I would never boo him but I know when he's done and he's done.

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The people who boo him should be thrown over the upper deck. This what have you done for me lately attitude is bullsh*t.


Bernie's my favorite athlete, but I'd boo him. Like I've told Captain Goody 2 Shoes, I'd boo my mother. It doesn't mean that I don't still love you, just that I'm annoyed and disappointed by your poor performance. Its like scolding you kid if he comes home with a bad report card. Doesn't mean you're not gonna congratulate him when he does well. Doesn't mean that I'm not gonna be back dickriding for Bernie when he gets hot.

However, I think the "he sucks, retire now" stuff is pure silliness. Just read my signature. He's not done and I think that he can still be a good hitter as a full-time DH. He hasn't been a good centerfielder since 2000 and I expected the Yankees to have him move to LF. I know that he didn't participate in ST, but it looks as if they didn't even have plans for it. He's a LF and in the spacious Yankees Stadium outfield, should be a DH.

.310/16 HR/85 RBI/.390 OBP

Those are my new season predictions for Bernie.
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Mattingly23
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theMETSsuck
May 14 2004, 12:46 PM
Mattingly23
May 14 2004, 11:11 AM
theMETSsuck
May 14 2004, 12:03 PM
the reality is that Bernie's not getting any younger...just because people are suggesting he take on more of a DH role in the near future doesn't mean they are any less of a Yankee fan than those who have been around since before '96.

I'm talking about the people who think he should retire, either effective immediately or at the end of this season. Players normally don't retire in the middle of a long-term deal. I'm all for him getting more time as the DH, as long as Giambi feels well enough to play first.

ok, then i agree w/u there...i think so far, that Giambi is handling the 1B fulltime position well...he doesn't have nearly the range that Travis Lee does, but he's not been that much of a liability there either...& he seems to hit better when he's playing 1B as opposed to DHing anyway...so since he's not going anywhere in any trades for the foreseeable future, i think the best solution would be to upgrade the defense in CF next year w/a star player like Beltran & moving Bernie to DH fulltime & filling in some time in the field as needed...then carry Bubba Crosby as a 4th/5th OFer fill-in.

1 - Jeter SS ®
2 - Beltran CF (S)
3 - A-Rod 3B ®
4 - Giambi 1B (L)
5 - Sheffield RF ®
6 - Posada C (S)
7 - Bernie DH (S)
8 - Matsui LF (L)
9 - Cairo or Boone 2B ®

that is one kick ass lineup & it's very possible that could be the lineup next season & for the next several years.

Agreed. I want Lofton gone, Beltran in center, Bernie DH'ing most of the time, Bubba as the 4th or 5th outfielder, and a defensive player at 2B.

Giambi has been ok at 1B, but he does still need to DH somewhat often (he had to leave last night because his knees were bothering him). Those days, Bernie can either sit or spell Beltran in CF or Matsui in LF. I'd also have him take some ground balls at 1B to become more versatile as his career winds down.
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KOCUR

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Mattingly23
May 14 2004, 12:11 PM
theMETSsuck
May 14 2004, 12:03 PM
the reality is that Bernie's not getting any younger...just because people are suggesting he take on more of a DH role in the near future doesn't mean they are any less of a Yankee fan than those who have been around since before '96.

I'm talking about the people who think he should retire, either effective immediately or at the end of this season. Players normally don't retire in the middle of a long-term deal. I'm all for him getting more time as the DH, as long as Giambi feels well enough to play first.

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Bernie is my second favorite player and I would never boo him but I know when he's done and he's done.


Bernie is not done.

He's Done.....as an everyday player. And he flat out stinks defensively.
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Vazquez33
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He's Done.....as an everyday player. And he flat out stinks defensively.

Ridiculous.
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YankeeBaseball
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Mantlemurcer
May 14 2004, 12:34 PM
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2 - Beltran CF (S)


That could be here in July :o

I dought that MM.

We don't have the prospects to get him then. We'll get him for only $$$ as a free agent at the end of the season.
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amit
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I don't think Bernie's done. However, he shouldn't be hitting higher than the 7th spot, right now. I understand that Joe's loyal and all that, but sometime you have to put loyalty aside if it hurts the team.

Also, he shouldn't play CF anymore. He kills the team definsively when he's out there.

CF - Lofton
SS - Jeter
3B - Rodriguez
1B - Giambi
RF - Sheffield
C - Posada
LF - Matsui
DH - Williams
2B - Cairo

That should be the lineup when everyone's healthy.
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Vazquez33
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amit
May 14 2004, 04:06 PM
I don't think Bernie's done. However, he shouldn't be hitting higher than the 7th spot, right now. I understand that Joe's loyal and all that, but sometime you have to put loyalty aside if it hurts the team.

Also, he shouldn't play CF anymore. He kills the team definsively when he's out there.

CF - Lofton
SS - Jeter
3B - Rodriguez
1B - Giambi
RF - Sheffield
C - Posada
LF - Matsui
DH - Williams
2B - Cairo

That should be the lineup when everyone's healthy.

I like that lineup. I don't like Bernie batting 2nd when Lofton sits. I would bat Matsui 2nd because he's a contact guy.
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KOCUR

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Vazquez33
May 14 2004, 03:20 PM
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He's Done.....as an everyday player. And he flat out stinks defensively.

Ridiculous.

? What exactly do you disagree with?? You still think he can play CF??
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YankeeBaseball
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I'd agree with Kocur. Bernie's defense is not adequate for CF. At the least, Bernie should be in LF and Matsui in CF. My preference is Bernie at DH.
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moomoo24
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He can still be a productive hitter when healthy. I have my reservations about him in CF, but I could live with the Lofton/Williams platoon for this year.
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Yanks473
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And the Band played on......
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Mattingly23
May 14 2004, 12:11 PM
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Bernie is my second favorite player and I would never boo him but I know when he's done and he's done.


Bernie is not done.

Get real. He's finished.
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KOCUR

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moomoo24
May 14 2004, 08:12 PM
He can still be a productive hitter when healthy. I have my reservations about him in CF, but I could live with the Lofton/Williams platoon for this year.

That's not a defensive platoon...that's a sh!t sandwich on rye.....
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Yanksfan03
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SheffofthePresent
May 14 2004, 11:56 PM
moomoo24
May 14 2004, 08:12 PM
He can still be a productive hitter when healthy.  I have my reservations about him in CF, but I could live with the Lofton/Williams platoon for this year.

That's not a defensive platoon...that's a sh!t sandwich on rye.....

Can't really disagree with that statement.
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Vazquez33
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Yanks473
May 14 2004, 08:36 PM
Mattingly23
May 14 2004, 12:11 PM
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Bernie is my second favorite player and I would never boo him but I know when he's done and he's done.


Bernie is not done.

Get real. He's finished.

Absoulutely clueless.
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Yanks473
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And the Band played on......
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Vazquez33
May 15 2004, 12:05 AM
Yanks473
May 14 2004, 08:36 PM
Mattingly23
May 14 2004, 12:11 PM
Quote:
 
Bernie is my second favorite player and I would never boo him but I know when he's done and he's done.


Bernie is not done.

Get real. He's finished.

Absoulutely clueless.

You're the clueless one.
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Strider
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I don't think Bernie's done. However, he shouldn't be hitting higher than the 7th spot, right now. I understand that Joe's loyal and all that, but sometime you have to put loyalty aside if it hurts the team.

Also, he shouldn't play CF anymore. He kills the team definsively when he's out there.

CF - Lofton
SS - Jeter
3B - Rodriguez
1B - Giambi
RF - Sheffield
C - Posada
LF - Matsui
DH - Williams
2B - Cairo

That should be the lineup when everyone's healthy.


If he shouldn't be batting higher than 7th, then why the hell is Jeter's .200 average batting 2nd in your lineup? I do believe that he's stinking more than Williams. Here's the lineup (for now) and carve this in stone!

CF - Lofton
SS - Jeter (I just said it to counter your "Bernie shouldn't..." crap)
3B - Rodriguez
1B - Giambi
RF - Sheffield
C - Posada
DH - Williams (could make an argument to bat him 6th, but Jorge's hot)
LF - Matsui
2B - Cairo
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amit
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Jeter's been hot the last 2 weeks or so. Bernie had 2 good games in a row.

I put Bernie 8th to seperate the switch hitters.
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Strider
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I put Bernie 8th to seperate the switch hitters.


I knew you would say that sh*t. Who the f*ck cares? Back-to-back switch hitters. That sh*t might factor into a game once every month. Its not like Joe hasn't done it before.

Jeter hasn't been hot for that long. It doesn't matter who has been hotter for longer, Bernie's done better this season. He's got like 25 points on him in average. And Bern is supposed to be the old man dealing with 50 injuries - "JUST RETIRE" and all that crap. Get on your boy's back.
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amit
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Bernie also has about 30 less AB. Also, who else on the team can steal a bag other than Lofton, who'd be leading off.
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Strider
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How many has he stolen by the way? Three? And I'm not saying that Jeter shouldn't be batting 2nd. He's #2 in my lineup too. But I'm just thinking that if you're gonna get on that "Bernie shouldn't bat higher than 7th" crap, then why should Jeter bat that high, when he hasn't done as well as Williams?

btw - More importantly. Who remembers me saying back in 2002 that we should have traded for Chone Figgins? At the time, I said that I wanted him as a pinch runner. Look what he's doing right now. His .300+ batting average won't last and he will be relegated to the bench when Anderson comes back, but if he played a full season, I could see .275/40 SB. If not our leadoff man, then a damn good 4th OFer. I had wanted either him, Carl Crawford, and someone I don't remember. I want some damn credit for that. Strider is NEVER wrong, except that one time when the WB network deceived me.
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amit
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Because Jeter is more suited for the #2 slot than any other guy on the team.
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Strider
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Bernie's not suited to bat 8th. Besides, anyone that makes contact and has speed can bat 2nd. Bernie could do it! :smirk:
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