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Religion, Science... Beliefs ok?!; They exist, get over it.
Topic Started: Mar 13 2009, 10:16 PM (1,887 Views)
Timmeh
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It's good you haven't, pom, since it's not a valid argument. I can just as easily say everything Satan does is good. You can't just avoid the omnibenevolence/omnipotence/omniscience argument by defining terms in such a way that it doesn't apply. You have to first decide what constitutes good, then see if god fits it. Not vice versa.
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DeProgrammer
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So what you're saying is that humans have the right to define good, rather than the God that made them.

Uh huh...
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Liksmaskaren
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And how do you know that god made us?

It is easy to hide behind that mumbo jumbo. The "Oh no, you are wrong because God just wanted to fool you into thinking that dinosaurs once existed" crap is getting old.

It is impossible to have a discussion when I must be wrong all the time. And I must be wrong because the god "is all-powerful, thus able to make evidence pointing in the total wrong direction". That sucks.

So I'm leaving this thread. I'm sick of religion, sects, cults and holy books with slightly homosexual men.
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Syntax Man
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Liksmaskaren,Mar 14 2009
09:15 PM
And how do you know that god made us?

It is easy to hide behind that mumbo jumbo. The "Oh no, you are wrong because God just wanted to fool you into thinking that dinosaurs once existed" crap is getting old.

It is impossible to have a discussion when I must be wrong all the time. And I must be wrong because the god "is all-powerful, thus able to make evidence pointing in the total wrong direction". That sucks.

So I'm leaving this thread. I'm sick of religion, sects, cults and holy books with slightly homosexual men.

well getting into such an argument is my life in a nutshell so I can sympathize with the desire to leave.

In the end we can disprove all the "god is real because the Bible says so" arguments with a single comment, the Bible, Torah and Koran were all written by humans who claim to have been influenced by god, anyone who is following these storybooks because it was said to have been created by people god possessed is about as credible as me saying that I'm going to worship a book that I shall write because I shall be influenced by a force that I shall worship.
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Timmeh
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Syntax Man,Mar 15 2009
12:54 AM
well getting into such an argument is my life in a nutshell so I can sympathize with the desire to leave.

You're suicidal?

Mason, I guess it boils down to whether you'd rather think for yourself or blindly follow a book. Yes, you are more important to yourself than God. If you go to hell, you're worse off than if God goes to hell. Jesus proved that with gusto. Therefore, you should be making decisions about yourself.
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That's, of course, granted that you are following a book rather than a voice in the back of your head that knows things you don't. And assuming you follow blindly, which is clearly not the case if you can rationalize it. :P

Edit: Oh, and I'm not saying I follow a voice in the back of my head. It's more like I'm following a very trustworthy and extremely intelligent individual, as well as tons of things I would say are miracles. Like a guy missing an arm being pronounced dead by paramedics, then waking up a few hours later singing hymns with someone who randomly showed up and said God told him to pray for him; people giving others simple things like a razor because God told them to and it turns out that the other person had just lost their last one; people having just begun the process of something you were about to request that you had never requested in your life and wasn't very relevant to the moment (that's a personal one)... I've been told quite a few miraculous stories by another very trustworthy individual, involving his dad (who is a minister) performing miracles like causing some woman's cancer to simply fall off her body, and so forth.

Some stories may be passed on from person to person and exaggerated or screwed up or whatever, but most of these came to me directly from a witness.
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Deetroid
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the best part of the universe will be when earth manages to contact a planet that has life in another galaxy and then talk about beliefs. i just hope it's as well developed as earth if not better so that we won't have to teach them what fire is. i also hope infinite life is invented long before that. and magic and hovecrafts.


that's when the era of star wars begins.
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Candy Man Criminal
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Candy Man Criminal,Mar 15 2009
04:55 PM
doooo doooooo do do do dooooo doo

STARWARS?

Anyway, when it comes to holy scripts written by a polytheistic religion long before Jesus was born that are supposed to be historical records of something that actually happened (Y'know, kinda like the bible), I tend to think they weren't prophesying (turns out prophesising isn't a word. Thank you spell check) for another religion that wasn't even heard of yet.

And if you can say that was a prophesy, it's just as easy for me to say the same thing about the bible and that Jesus hasn't been born yet, since the books are meant to do the same thing. (Although in the case of the Egyptians, it seems like they are working towards controlling rather than converting, and the bible seems to be focused on converting.)
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Timmeh,Mar 14 2009
10:05 PM
Syntax Man,Mar 15 2009
12:54 AM
well getting into such an argument is my life in a nutshell so I can sympathize with the desire to leave.

You're suicidal?

that's...not quite what i meant

I mean I always end up in some argument with my family because of my atheism and the person I'm arguing with always says "im right because the bible says im right" that bullshit in a hat, that's why I'm currently on my own, (yay for the canadian legal system accepting this)
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People are Shit.  When I'm In a crowd I think to myself "who left this shit all over the place."   I'm shit, you're shit, the world is shit, and if you're sitting there thinking "yes its true, everyone else is shit except me" then you're a double bacon shit with large fries Mr. shit face

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Candy Man Criminal
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my family doesnt know of my atheism xD
theyre all way to chritian and i'd be forced to go to chruch if i called bullshit on god xD
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Syntax Man, you clearly lived with some blind-faith people who let others do the thinking for them. I would hope that you aren't letting the increasingly-common outspoken atheists do the thinking for you, just falling in line with them and letting their words defend you like the blind-faith people do.

Candy Man Criminal, I think you are the kind of person who simply likes to walk around with their chest huffed out and say, "I'm atheist," thinking it makes you more respectable. Maybe you would see something positive if you were looking for something positive rather than looking for reasons not to believe. I think you should talk with your family about it.

I'm totally evangelizing and trying to incite change here. And I certainly believe that's the right thing for me to do. But I'm not going to force you to do anything, because that's not even possible, so please don't act like I am. :P
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Candy Man Criminal
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ive looked for reasons to believe
ive tried to believe
ive read bits and piece of the bible

i just dont

also i dont walk around anywhere, chest huffed out or otherwise
im usually the one to steer the conversation completely away from religion
also ive seen what kind of things religion has done for my family

theres always some new drama or fight, usually cause by religion + alcohol
politics too <_<

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nice green btw
Timmeh
 
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Timmeh
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Being an atheist does make you more respectable. Or less archaic, at least.
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QFT on the Nice green. Syntax, those people who say that "I'm right because God says so" may be believers in God, but they don't follow his word well, because thats not how God wants us to witness to people. He wants us to go to the masses, and be with people who do bad things and stuff (not like join a gang and kill people) so we can witness, just by being different. saying that Im right because.... is ignorant, and they're not helping like they should.

CMC, People in your family drink? Well, thats not supposed to happen as far as I remember, (correct me if I'm wrong DeProg) and I know it seems like "there's no God" because when you pray (if you have) nothing happens, because thats how God runs things. Everything you will ever do, say, and think is already planned out. God already decided your life. (sounds crazy, I almost went EMO over thinking this) He knows your heart, listens to what you have to say to him, and loves you. You are his child. Everyone is a child of God. Atheists, Agnostics, heck, even Scientologists. He made us all. (yet again, all powerful, don't over think) The Bible is a very complicated book, and very few people can understand it the first time reading it, without a believer explaining it.

Liks, same goes for you. Also, I have seen my share of miracles. I'm a miracle in fact. I was born with (and still have) five heart defects. Some that don't really matter, others that are very quickly fatal. Also, I had Sub-Acute Endocarditis a few years ago, and if it hadn't been acute, I'd be dead right now. Endocarditis is fatal. Some people from our church had tumors in their brains from overexposure to carbon monoxide, because they had no Carbon Monoxide detector in their apartment. They had a tumor the size of a golfball in their brain, and the doctors said they would die shortly. Our church prayed for them, and something un-explainable by science happened. The tumors were gone. No medical way that that could happen. Lots of other things have happened, and it would take a lot of time to say all of them. All I'm going for, is that God is real to me, and has done real things.

BTW, this is a crappy job explaining this, and my father could do much better. My dad is the executive pastor of music and worship at church. He knows lotsa Jesus stuff.
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