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Religion, Science... Beliefs ok?!; They exist, get over it.
Topic Started: Mar 13 2009, 10:16 PM (1,877 Views)
Infinity's End
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Metroid
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Stop spamming the "Hi, I'm New!" thread. Something of this magnitude deserves it's own topic.

A few things first though.
-This discussion will get heated very very fast. This is a good thing.
-Only if the heat reduces itself to mindless whining and flaming should a moderator get involved. (I'm sure they can judge correctly when they need to get involved anyway.)
-Remember this: These are other people's beliefs you are arguing, tread lightly but don't be afraid to express your opinion. On the other half of that- be an adult, if someone says something you disagree with, move on. It's a matter of opinion.

Religion and science have always been matters of heated debate, it IS possible to keep it at debate levels and not mindlessly whine about fallacious statements.

---

This entire topic started because someone said something involving Chuck Norris's personal beliefs and escalated.

There are countless religions upon countless deities and beliefs. There are counter beliefs that either tell the same story differently (Such as Gnosticism and Christianity.) and beliefs that contradict each other. It's a battle that has been going on longer than anyone can remember, it's the entire reason the middle east is in a smack down- it's all about who is right and who is wrong.

I'm a Christian, I follow no particular sect of the religion and follow my own sets of beliefs. I am neither right nor wrong. Yet my views contradict those of other Christians. Why? Because I see things differently.
I follow the red text of the New Testament.

I decided to take part because of this;
"Under The Ashes
 
So what if he's religious? Did anyone ever think that being gay was wrong? Hmmm.. Yes. Jesus said that. It's wrong. They don't fit together. Thats why men and women were designed the way we are. It's so we could make babies. Besides, if you can't get a girl to like you, you just suck. XD (lol jk)

UTA, Jesus never said anything about gay being wrong. Look in the New Testament, especially the red text. He seemed to express little interest when it came to sexual deviation. Jesus's only ever really said to "Love one another", he may not have meant like THAT, but my point is. He never said "Love your neighbor, unless he's gay, then you must smite him!". He only wanted to teach us to get along with each other.

"CloudVaris"
 
Lasik eye surgery, flying (planes), robotic limbs, GLASSES, clothes... all of these can be considered "unnatural."
We weren't designed to fix our eyes once they're fucked up. It must be wrong to get any form of correction, then.
Flying? We weren't designed for that! I mean, come on, we don't have wings. Planes must be evil.
We also can't generate new limbs! That means making our own when we lose one is evil.
The worst part? We weren't designed to have an outer layer of fur or skin. We weren't designed with a way to live in cold climates. But god dammit, it looks like nearly everyone on earth is now an evil evil sinner because they don't run around nude, the way we were made. It's so terribly unnatural!

And now that I'm done being a sarcastic ass...
The bible was not written by Jesus, it was written by people. Said 'people' were not completely devoid of sin. Thus they were not really all that reliable. They could skew things any way they want. Considering the time, if they said being gay was fine, they might have been killed and the bible completely ignored. And the bible being ignored is not what they wanted... they wanted to convert a crapton of people to their religion. I believe that they altered their writings accordingly.
It would certainly explain the blatantly plagiarized portions, (for instance, Jesus, born under a star to a virgin, three wise men come to visit, bla bla bla. Different names, same story... you'd be surprised how many holy texts had their saviors born the same way.) but I'm not going to get any more into that because I know the religious members of the forum won't listen to a word anyway.


Yeah, the Bible is horribly abridged and has been reshaped by churches countless times. I personally try to put it as radically simple as I can to understand it.
I want to get a copy of the Koran and study it too.

So that's pretty much what's gone on in the "Hi I'm New!" topic.

Quote:
 
The Bible was written by people INFLUENCED by God. He gave them the Word for them to write. He gave them the inspiration on what to write. The Bible isn't messed up. Its right. It's historically accurate. Also, Christianity was the FIRST religion. People copied us. Also, its not so much a religion as it is a relationship with Jesus, our Lord and Saviour. Tru Fax.

Any other questions?


That was the last argument to be posted before everyone began degrading themselves and others with sarcastic nonsense.
Which reminds me... BE MATURE WITH THIS TOPIC!
Posted Image
Birds fall from the window ledge above mine. Then they flap their wings at the last second. I can see
their dead weight just dropping like stones or small loaves of bread past my window all the time.
But unless I get up, walk across the room and peer down below, I don't see their last second curves
toward a horizontal flight. Now due to a construct in my mind that makes their falling and their flight
symbolic of my entire existence, it becomes important for me to get up and see their last second
curves toward flight. It's almost as if my life will fall unless I see their ascent.
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Timmeh
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I love you bro. I can totally dig the red text type of belief, because I think Jesus was very much a chill dude. He just wasn't necessarily the only person who thought what he did, and not the only person who died for his cause. There's no reason to believe he's the son of god any more than Gandhi, save for the fact that he implied he was. But, I like almost everything he ever said. So it's cool.
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Candy Man Criminal
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ok, so

for my opening statement i would like to say that the stories of the bible are either exagerations or false entirely

great flood that covered the earth?

its been proven that the entire earth was NOT flooded, but rather a village
some merchant built a raft with his livestock on it (and wife)
and survived


i doubt his name was Noah or he was even christian <_<




also, rock me sexy jesus
Timmeh
 
troid is jesus on stilts

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Infinity's End
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Nobody can truly prove something did or did not happen CMC, not unless they witnessed it themselves. Yeah, you can present evidence that such-and-such happened, but even then it may not have. (Or vice-versa.)

As much weight as a children's story goes in a topic about divine creatures. Well.
Who cares? It's just as plausible as well... the Earth being engulfed in fire. But in the end it doesn't matter, I'm just glad I got my dog and my lizards, they're cute!
Posted Image
Birds fall from the window ledge above mine. Then they flap their wings at the last second. I can see
their dead weight just dropping like stones or small loaves of bread past my window all the time.
But unless I get up, walk across the room and peer down below, I don't see their last second curves
toward a horizontal flight. Now due to a construct in my mind that makes their falling and their flight
symbolic of my entire existence, it becomes important for me to get up and see their last second
curves toward flight. It's almost as if my life will fall unless I see their ascent.
Offline
 
Timmeh
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Infinity's End,Mar 13 2009
05:38 PM
Who cares? It's just as plausible as well... the Earth being engulfed in fire. But in the end it doesn't matter, I'm just glad I got my dog and my lizards, they're cute!

No one claims that's ever happened... Well, except for before the Earth cooled. Since it was kind of molten.
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CloudVaris
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Quote:
 
Cloud, Your an atheist. I get it. Don't shove me into the ground noobkake. Don't beat me up just cuz its fun. "Hey look, this guy likes Jesus. Lets make fun of him. Hurhurhur!!!" Yeah, thats you. Here's me. "Wow. Sucks to be him. Living in non belief sucks."

The Bible was written by people INFLUENCED by God. He gave them the Word for them to write. He gave them the inspiration on what to write. The Bible isn't messed up. Its right. It's historically accurate. Also, Christianity was the FIRST religion. People copied us. Also, its not so much a religion as it is a relationship with Jesus, our Lord and Saviour. Tru Fax.

I already replied to this in the other thread, but I'll add to it here.
Don't be too quick to make assumptions, like I said, I'm not an atheist.
We both love the same savior here, so let's keep the insults... well. I dunno. Let's keep them from turning into flames, that sounds good =D

Now on to what I didn't reply to!
You know who else was influenced by God? The disciple who betrayed Jesus, no?
Christianity, even if it was first (Which Tim pointed out was not true), the New Testament (The part I used as an example for the plagiarism) was written WAY after new religions popped up, and Jesus wasn't the first savior born to a virgin under a star and visited by numerous wise guys.
I think the first (and most similar) was the Egyptian sun god? Believe it was Ra, but I could be wrong. It's been a while.
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MrGuest
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Quote:
 
Jesus never said anything about gay being wrong.

HOWEVER, it does say that Marriage is a sacred covenant between a man and woman.

Not man and man, or woman and woman.
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Timmeh
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Jesus is a he, not an "it".
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Pomegranate
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there have already been 2 other topics for this -.-

Quote:
 
The Bible was written by people INFLUENCED by God. He gave them the Word for them to write. He gave them the inspiration on what to write. The Bible isn't messed up. Its right. It's historically accurate. Also, Christianity was the FIRST religion. People copied us. Also, its not so much a religion as it is a relationship with Jesus, our Lord and Saviour. Tru Fax.

Any other questions?


that's not true... there were other religeons before christianity. there were even religeons before moses wrote the first books of the old testament (the gods of Egypt for example... such as Ra)
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MrGuest
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Timmeh,Mar 13 2009
11:01 PM
Jesus is a he, not an "it".

It meaning the Bible. >_>

I'm not sure if it's a Jesus quote or not, but I do know it's in the Bible, so I labeled it as such.
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Candy Man Criminal
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Infinity's End,Mar 13 2009
10:38 PM
Nobody can truly prove something did or did not happen CMC, not unless they witnessed it themselves. Yeah, you can present evidence that such-and-such happened, but even then it may not have. (Or vice-versa.)

because science cant go back a few million years and show us animals that are extinct now, so they obviously cant check the deeper layers of dirt and rock for sign of water sediment and such

also theres plenty of "noah" stories from religions BEFORE christianity




also, Atheist (obviously)
Timmeh
 
troid is jesus on stilts

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Infinity's End
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Zurginator,Mar 13 2009
11:28 PM
Timmeh,Mar 13 2009
11:01 PM
Jesus is a he, not an "it".

It meaning the Bible. >_>

I'm not sure if it's a Jesus quote or not, but I do know it's in the Bible, so I labeled it as such.

Well, the Bible is a very expansive book... If it's in the New Testament I want to see it.
I'm pretty sure we can rule out the old testament as a big book of outdated "Dos and Don'ts". Great for historical record, bedtime stories, and you can even take a few laws from it if you want to start your own country.
But otherwise it is very outdated. Giving permission to sell your daughter, smite your neighbors as heathenistic... No bacon allowed.
Posted Image
Birds fall from the window ledge above mine. Then they flap their wings at the last second. I can see
their dead weight just dropping like stones or small loaves of bread past my window all the time.
But unless I get up, walk across the room and peer down below, I don't see their last second curves
toward a horizontal flight. Now due to a construct in my mind that makes their falling and their flight
symbolic of my entire existence, it becomes important for me to get up and see their last second
curves toward flight. It's almost as if my life will fall unless I see their ascent.
Offline
 
Pomegranate
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Prime Essence
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Quote:
 
Yeah, we're studying this in biology, so I'm not too sure what it is. Even if we're influenced by our genes or whatever, its still ultimately our (or there) decision. Thats directed at Pomegranate.

so you're saying homosexuals should force themselves to do something they don't like just to be "biblical?" honestly the only case i can think of in the bible where it talks about homosexuals is in Sadam and Gamorah, which were destroyed. However, it's my belief that the story is often misinterpreted because the cities were destroyed and there were gay people asking to have sex with the main character's (Lot) guests. Now, think about it this way... it could just be the act of forcing him to give up his guest and kidnapping that person was the evil part of the story, not the homosexuality.

the quoted post was back in the "hi i'm new!" topic
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Liksmaskaren
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I just hate religions. they suck and they make people kill each other.
Religions are great if you want to control people.

And Jesus (he was Mexican. Pronounce it Hesus. It sounds cooler) could have existed. He could have been a guerilla fighter that stood up to the romans. But he was NOT supernatural. He just had a great PR guy.

There is only one religion that I hate less than the others and it is buddhism.
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Timmeh
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Sodom and Gomorrah's problem was that they were inhospitable. Homosexuality had little to nothing to do with it.
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