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korea!; like a really bad war movie
Topic Started: Mar 9 2009, 02:22 AM (1,324 Views)
Syntax Man
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well I'd say that this is natural progression from arguing about how to deal with N. Korea to morals about nuking them to the morals of abortion so since were still having an intelligent conversation and 072 is participating its not really off topic..yeah

anyway really its the potential mothers choice, if the potential mother isn't ready for childbirth or parenting then they have every right to abort the child, its their body and a paricite living within them

these murders are accused of the two counts of murder because the death of the fetus was consented by the would be mother...or because there's a religious zealot in office but that's not the point
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Yahtzee
 
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Timmeh
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Pomegranate,Mar 12 2009
04:47 PM
if someone kills a pregnant person that person is often charged with 2 counts of murder, one for the mother, one for the fetus.

however, when the mother kills the fetus it doesn't count...

That's entirely bureaucratic and irrelevant to morality. That's as much an argument for killing pregnant mothers as it is an argument for abortion. You can ban abortion to solve the discrepancy, or you can make murdering pregnant mothers carry a lighter penalty.

EDIT: Syntax Man, I don't like the use of the word "parasite". As far as I know, it's easier, in terms of resources, to raise a baby before it's born than after. So why consider the fetus a parasite, but not the newborn? The infringement on the mother's body isn't, in this case, a relevant argument, because we sure as hell aren't going to let her kill a newborn, who infringes on her body plenty.
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Pomegranate
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Syntax Man,Mar 12 2009
04:25 PM
anyway really its the potential mothers choice, if the potential mother isn't ready for childbirth or parenting then they have every right to abort the child, its their body and a paricite living within them

there are alternatives like adoption...
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Syntax Man
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@pom:
the thing is, the woman's body may not be fit to grow the fetus within them due to age, such as a preggo teen or someone who should have gone through menopause ages ago but didn't, that puts a lot of stress on the body.
@Tim:
on a strictly scientific level, a fetus is a parasite, it lives inside of another human for 9 months stealing food and oxygen causing the body to work harder in order to maintain 2 systems rather than one, not to mention the fact that the fetus consumes just as much energy as the mother in order to grow from being one single cell to being a full baby in just 9 months. Also when the thing does finally leave the body it causes immense amounts of pain as it tries to fit through a whole smaller than the baby's fist
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Yahtzee
 
People are Shit.  When I'm In a crowd I think to myself "who left this shit all over the place."   I'm shit, you're shit, the world is shit, and if you're sitting there thinking "yes its true, everyone else is shit except me" then you're a double bacon shit with large fries Mr. shit face

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Syntax Man,Mar 12 2009
07:21 PM
@Tim:
on a strictly scientific level, a fetus is a parasite

On a strictly scientific level, so is a child, so it's a pointless word to use. Yes, the fetus takes energy from the money more directly, but the mother has to devote resources to the fetus either way. More, as a matter of fact, after it's born.
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Syntax Man
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whatever...tomato tomato i guess
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Yahtzee
 
People are Shit.  When I'm In a crowd I think to myself "who left this shit all over the place."   I'm shit, you're shit, the world is shit, and if you're sitting there thinking "yes its true, everyone else is shit except me" then you're a double bacon shit with large fries Mr. shit face

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s123i68
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Even then, Syntax, there is one other contributing factor that you missed (Tim did too, btw). A parasite is different if only for the fact that the Mother of the unborn baby consents to the fetus growing inside her. People normally don't consent to a parasite living inside them. And when they find out about said parasite, they most likely try to remove it immediately. Mothers of unborn babies don't immediately freak out and go, "A fetus? Oh my god! Get it out!" They more or less go, "Oh wow, I'm pregnant!"

Sorry, I'm nit-picking.

Yeah, abortion, and stuff.

Who else almost forgot about Korea and how N. Korea was being a jerk? Btw, are there any updates on that?

Yeah, I'm being lazy.
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why do your balls look too big to me?
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Timmeh
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Well, I haven't seen any mushroom clouds, but I don't know about the launch of the alleged satellite or the status of US/S Korea drills.
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Candy Man Criminal
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i say we tear the world a new one when we blast ourselves into space to like mars or something and start over there
earth is fucked, man
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Pomegranate
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thats what happened to the terran in starcraft... although they were prisoner; they didn't concent willingly
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Timmeh
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I don't think Earth is fucked. I think mankind is fucked, because we're not likely to break our patterns that fucked Earth over. Technology will probably solve all of our problems eventually, though. :D
Especially if we stop overpopulating like retards.

But yeah, if we leave Earth to die and land on a small planet orbiting Alpha Centauri, we'll just destroy that planet through war, if the native lifeforms don't get us first, that is. Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri plays out the same as his Civ games. :[
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Under The Ashes
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Now we're talking about how screwed up the earth is? Man, changing topics on this board is like changing channels.. No biggie. Also, we're never moving off this earth. And more also, we're not overpopulated. Not even CLOSE. China may be, but nobody else is. I'm all for everyone have one kid, making that a law is fine by me, but aborting a baby is just not ok. Think of it like this. When something happens, people press and abort button, Its like the same for human life. If something bad happens in someone's life, you don't just press "abort" and kill them. So why would you do that for an unborn child? You could just let it be adopted, like Pom and 072 said. Not that big a deal. Abortion is never right. Also the human body is designed to have kids. People age 12 have had successful kids, with no problems. Well, I've answered everything I think. Anything else you want to try to argue with? Also, why are you supporting it? Your not a woman. Or is there something we don't know about you? <_< >_>
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Candy Man Criminal
 
its not sex just cuz you switched hands
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Candy Man Criminal
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Under The Ashes,Mar 13 2009
10:14 PM
And more also, we're not overpopulated. Not even CLOSE. China may be, but nobody else is.

...
resources are limited
ALOT of places dont have much at all
EVEN in america
when resources run thin
OVER POPULATION

starvation is how nature says
"STOP FUCKING"
Timmeh
 
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Syntax Man
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Candy Man Criminal,Mar 13 2009
03:19 PM
starvation is how nature says
"STOP FUCKING"

you have been promoted...to GOD


and besides UTA the big thing is that teen pregos are amazingly unhealthy during and after the pregnancy because their bodies aren't designed or ready for that stress. Banning abortion or complaining about it is indeed infringing on peoples rights, sometimes there's a hole in the condom or someone is raped, that doesn't mean that they should be forced to go through with the whole pregnancy process. The final decision should always rest with the pregnant person in question.
Besides, it can be assumed that the fetus doesn't care about being aborted, it's not as though it feels any pain during the process, explain without using religion as a crutch how abortion is immoral
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Yahtzee
 
People are Shit.  When I'm In a crowd I think to myself "who left this shit all over the place."   I'm shit, you're shit, the world is shit, and if you're sitting there thinking "yes its true, everyone else is shit except me" then you're a double bacon shit with large fries Mr. shit face

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Timmeh
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UTA
 
Also, we're never moving off this earth.
Why not?
UTA
 
And more also, we're not overpopulated. Not even CLOSE. China may be, but nobody else is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Poulation-since-1000AD.jpg
If we continue quadrupling our population every century, we're going to be overpopulated, even by your standards.
However, I'm going to argue that we're overpopulated at the present time. Overpopulation is defined as having a number of people who cannot be supported by the world's resources. You seem to think that the only resource, in this context, is living space. I disagree. People are commonly accepted to have 3 basic needs: Clothing, Shelter, and Nutrition. I'd add two others - Climate and Energy.
Currently, we have billions of people eating less than 3 meals a day. Clean water is nonexistent in some parts of the world, and even in the United States, we're draining our aquifers faster than they replenish every year. Once we run out of water, we're going to be out of food as well, since we grow a lot of our own food. And our population density is one of the lowest in the world!
We're well on our way to destroying a substantial chunk of the habitable climate space available for us, thanks to our CO2 emissions. Melting the ice caps will simply turn a fraction of our land into ocean, which is currently inhabitable by humans.
Energy, I'm sure you're aware, isn't available to everyone either. We kill each other over oil, since it's a rare enough commodity to be profitable to whoever controls its market. Enormous sections of the Earth lack electricity altogether.
http://shadow.eas.gatech.edu/~kcobb/energy...ht_1024x768.jpg
Take note of the lighting in the US (where you live, from where you assume that we're fine) as compared to the rest of the world. Just our eastern part is brighter than the entirety of India. We have a quarter of their population. Looks like Africa's never heard of Thomas Edison, either.
UTA
 
Its like the same for human life. If something bad happens in someone's life, you don't just press "abort" and kill them. So why would you do that for an unborn child?
Because it's not a human life. It lacks a central nervous system.
UTA
 
You could just let it be adopted, like Pom and 072 said. Not that big a deal.
Yes, but there's a perfectly moral alternative.
UTA
 
Also the human body is designed to have kids. People age 12 have had successful kids, with no problems.
And others have died, and most people feel stressed and drained after they have kids. Anecdotal evidence.
UTA
 
Also, why are you supporting it? Your not a woman. Or is there something we don't know about you? <_< >_>
So only women can appreciate human rights? Nice. I'm a transsexual if it makes you feel better.
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