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is jesus real?; wow... alot of pages! O_O
Topic Started: Aug 5 2006, 10:46 PM (3,077 Views)
sheegothhunter
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good points, except serus. i get that the physical properties are passed on. thats why the monkey example doesnt work. the monkeys with more hair are a different species, slightly. they are the not so hairless monkeys. they have different genes and dna. they are different, not the same creature with different features. what you dont understand is this:

how does the younger generation know that it needs to grow more fur? the older one knows because it had to stay warm. but does it's genes change? what is it that tells the younger generation, before its born, to have certain genes?

heres adaptation- creatures change to their environment, adapting to survive. i beleive in that! it happens all the time. but the creature has to experience a reason to adapt, creatures dont just change for no reason. it has a reason, in this case the cold. but it had to experience the cold to adapt. true right? this is cause and effect.

so how does the younger generation be born with more fur? with genes to have more fur? it couldnt adapt it never experienced it. it couldnt have an effect without a cause. thats the difference between evolution and adaptation:

evolution says that one thing can become another, adaptation says one thing can adapt to survive. BIG DIFFERENCE.

a species cannot change into another species, it can change within its species to become more suitable in an environment. evolution says that a chicken could adapt to a fishes environment over millions of years, and become a fish over generations. common sence and adaptation says that no, only a fish can adapt to OTHER FISH's environments. a fish cant adapt to a chicken's environment, and a chicken cant adapt to a fish's environment. a fish can adapt to a better fish, and a chicken can adapt to a better chicken!
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Troid92: I doubt it did, unless the person is like taking it for flaming <_<.

The way I see it. Long ago our forefathers wanted the answer to many common questions: 'why are we here?', 'How are stars created', 'How is it that they exist'. So they obiously decided, 'hmm, what is an easy way in which we can all agree on, but is also most likely? A creator!' or they thought something liek that <_<.. eventually this grew and people began beliving in it mroe and more... blah...
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sheegothhunter,Aug 8 2006
05:56 PM
how does the younger generation know that it needs to grow more fur? the older one knows because it had to stay warm. but does it's genes change?  what is it that tells the younger generation, before its born, to have certain genes?

Yeah, that's a little problem with his description--It kind of implies that the genes change only based on survival. Genes change every which way, it's just the ones that can survive better that survive.. better, so it appears as if the genes change only to fit the environment. I'll try to clear that part up with this example.

Generation 1 (in our example) of monkeys doesn't have any hair. Only 1% of them have a thin layer of hair on them. The temperature in the area begins cooling, and the ones with hair--Which is based on genetics, not just complete luck--have a better chance of survival. They produce more offspring in the area than the others, so the population maybe goes from 1% hairy monkeys to 5% hairy monkeys into the next generation. Generation 2 then has more hairy monkeys, and the temperature keeps cooling. The population slowly over many generations becomes maybe 95% hairy monkey. Now, the hairy monkeys themselves have variations as well, and maybe 1% of them have thicker coats of hair. They have a better chance of survival, produce more offspring than the others, and so on and so forth with many things like that.

Does that clear it up a little? They don't have to know what to change to, it just happens because of the survival idea and the fact that genes just keep changing however they want. It would be kind of weird to have genes change only based on environment--How would they even know what to change to?

Edit: That's assuming the monkeys don't eventually become extinct, though. If the temperature is cooling too much, they'll eventually go extinct unless they can adapt/evolve fast enough.

sheegothhunter,Aug 8 2006
05:56 PM
a species cannot change into another species, it can change within its species to become more suitable in an environment. evolution says that a chicken could adapt to a fishes environment over millions of years, and become a fish over generations. common sence and adaptation says that no, only a fish can adapt to OTHER FISH's environments. a fish cant adapt to a chicken's environment, and a chicken cant adapt to a fish's environment. a fish can adapt to a better fish, and a chicken can adapt to a better chicken!


Just give it time. Obviously you can't throw generation 1 of chickens into the water and hope they adapt. You'd have to set up a small lake next to somewhere where chickens live and give them some need to go into it--Maybe to avoid a predator (though then it'd be a race to see which could adapt faster, and you'd have to be sure to keep the chickens alive). Then after many, many, many, many generations, the chickens may actually be able to swim a little. >_>

Edit: You'd also have to contain the chickens near the lake, otherwise they'd probably just spread out too much or avoid it. And if the swimming abilities get in the way of avoiding the predator on land, it may be a little bit of a problem as they probably would end up not adapting to swim because of that. Better idea: Stick the majority of their food in the lake.

Of course, go WAY longer through time than that and you might get some that can even go under the water for a short time, and so on, eventually with many other features that let them stay underwater for very long times and move quickly through the water and such. It would be the same idea with the monkeys, only with many different factors than just hair.
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There was a russian scientist that created dogs from foxes. It took 50 generations, and he only let the ones that had the most characteristics of a dog live every generation. Evolution? I belive so. They look like dogs, behave like dogs and they eat poop like dogs.

There are fishes that can run(!) on land with their fins. Evolution? Yep. They will become reptiles one day.

There are bones from dinosaurs with feathers and skeletons like birds. They became the birds that exists today. Evolution? Yes.

We are still evolving. Did you know that? We are getting smarter, taller and we live longer for each generation. Some day Homo Sapiens will be extinct.

And are'nt adapting to new enviroments and evolving the same thing?
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Yes, butch that was correct, ALL of it, except about dogs eating poop. Back then in the 1800's people were small they would only reach like 5'4 at max height, when I was 12 I was 5'6 I was taller than my mom =D, now I am getting tall, possibly I will destroy the earth with my fist =D lol jk... but yes, eventually our bodies will have Anti-Bodies that can protect us against maybe deseases like aids and cancer.... eventually
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Butch,Aug 9 2006
12:51 AM
There was a russian scientist that created dogs from foxes. It took 50 generations, and he only let the ones that had the most characteristics of a dog live every generation. Evolution? I belive so. They look like dogs, behave like dogs and they eat poop like dogs.

There are fishes that can run(!) on land with their fins. Evolution? Yep. They will become reptiles one day.

There are bones from dinosaurs with feathers and skeletons like birds. They became the birds that exists today. Evolution? Yes.

We are still evolving. Did you know that? We are getting smarter, taller and we live longer for each generation. Some day Homo Sapiens will be extinct.

And are'nt adapting to new enviroments and evolving the same thing?

Actually, they'll be amphibians.

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thats a good story but its not true at all. heres another story that you might want to hear:

a generation of girafes live in a field with tall trees. some are pregnant. they eat the leaves for years and years. pretty soon, the level of leaves left on the trees is too high for them to reach. even with their long necks, they cant reach any of the leaves. its in their genes to only grow a certain length of neck, just like all the giraffes before them. but if the next generation doesnt have long engough necks, they will die from starvation. how are they to make sure that the next generation of giraffes have longer necks? is there a gene that gets passed on that makes the giraffes have long enough necks to reach the leaves? there isnt, and there is no way to evolve over a generation like that. in your example, you say nearly all the nearly hairless monkeys die except the ones with longer fur. but those ones are obviously rare, and just by chance have longer fur. if they have children, the children WILL NOT HAVE LONGER FUR. the next generation of nearly hairless monkeys will be just as nearly hairless as usual and they will most likely all die very young. MAYBE a few exceptions occur like with their parents. then only those will survive, and pretty soon their are less and less eceptional births and one year there is none with longer fur. the race dies out.

Dude, your denser than my brother. Mabye that wasnt a good enough example. Say it gets just cold enough to kill the monkeys with less fur, the monkeys with longer fur will live on. And because they have long fur in their genes, they will pass it on to their offspring. Each generation will have slightly thicker hair, whether it be 1 millimeter, until they're comfortable in their enviornment. I dont mean to be rude, but say that the next generation of monkeys wont have fur is just ignorant.

Now, if for some strange reason, your still questioning it, heres another example. Not to be racist, but, im assuming your white. Im black, why, because i was born in africa. Where is hotter, wherever you are, or Africa??? Peoples skin glands produce more melanin to addapt to the heat, untill they became darker. And they passed that onto their children. *smacks head* So thats why all these dark skinned people are walking around!!! So yes, that's evolution that you can see around you.

*BTW, if i racially offended you, im sorry, im used to racial conversations*
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and maybe we will develope new viruses...
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Czar Dragon,Aug 9 2006
01:17 AM
and maybe we will develope new viruses...

We dont develop new viruses, Viruses EVOLVE into newer more potent forms. Thats why new strains of viruses periodically emerge. Because virus's are very simple, they evolve at a rate far faster than any multicellular organism. That's so mo evolution for you.
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REDHALBERD,Aug 9 2006
01:17 AM
Actually, they'll be amphibians.

....
Do you know what an amphibian is? lol, an amphibian is a creature who can survive on water and land, there are two kinds, 'Terrestrial' and 'aquatic' the mix, like us humans, are called Amphibians, so to correct they won't be amphibians jsut that, they will be amphibians but of the SPECIES of reptiles.... helping? :P
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humans aren't amphibians because we can't breathe water. Yes redhalberd my mistake I ment catch new viruses.
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Serus,Aug 9 2006
01:20 AM
REDHALBERD,Aug 9 2006
01:17 AM
Actually, they'll be amphibians.

....
Do you know what an amphibian is? lol, an amphibian is a creature who can survive on water and land, there are two kinds, 'Terrestrial' and 'aquatic' the mix, like us humans, are called Amphibians, so to correct they won't be amphibians jsut that, they will be amphibians but of the SPECIES of reptiles.... helping? :P

Um no, Amphibians arent "the species of reptiles". A species is a variation of a type of animal. Like, a leapord frog is a species of frog, frogs are a type of amphibian, and amphibians are a type of vertebrate, so dont say helping, when you dont know what your talking about. And you still have countered my evolution examples.

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like us humans, are called Amphibians

Excuse me?? Humans are not amphibians. We dont stand a ghost of a chance in the water compared to the goldfish in my backyard. Amphibious, means, lives in water, and on land. We dont live in water, and never have.

Helping???
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CZAR:Ok, humans can survive underwater, throw a fish out of the water, they can't survive, whether humans can breathe underwater or not, we can still survive. The whole concept is, 'can you survive underwater' if you stay there 10min thats still surviving no?

REDHALBERD:
1. I know what species are.
2. I never said, 'Amphibians are the species of reptiles'
3. I said, 'they will be amphibian but of the species of reptiles'
what that means is like you are an amphibian but of the species of Humans so what I was saying is, 'you are an amphibian, but BELONG to the species of reptiles' and don't try and tell me what a species is, or anything on science I knew more than you when I was like 5y/o :D> :P :roll:
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and here i though i was the only one paying attention in science class...



I CLAP FOR ALL OF YOU!!! :clap:
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REDHALBERD,Aug 8 2006
09:24 PM
so dont say helping, when you dont know what your talking about.

dude dont be an ass. He thought he was helping...
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well said, everyone makes mistakes.
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