Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Mp2d. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
is jesus real?; wow... alot of pages! O_O
Topic Started: Aug 5 2006, 10:46 PM (3,078 Views)
War of the Worlds
Member Avatar
Elite Pirate
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Sorry it just that I dont whant anything to get in my way when I'm planning to get something.

The place where Jesus is born is a real place, If only Romans had history books of this time when Jesus walk the earth then we know.
Offline
 
Gold Leader
Member Avatar
Omega Pirate
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
You cannot deny his existance. The only thing you can deny is his credibility. Your "Faith" in this matter goes beyond religion. It's what you think it is, not what a corrupt congregation thinks. I know that the Catholic Christian religion (what I'm in) is falling apart. It's being led by bishops who either don't think of us, or they just don't care about anything. There are also all the scandals involving priests and other religious. I'm an active Christian, I go to church every Sunday, but that does not make me permanently bound to what they say, as they are humans as well. I'll believe whatever I want to believe, and all of you should too.
Offline
 
Rewrite
On Thin Ice
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Gold leader: hmm, nicely said, well done. 10/15. 6/10. But theres only one thing you missed, you can deny someone's existence(not saying jesus was real)according to some historians, Jesus was just a, 'magician' mostly someone that studies witchcraft, others say he was just a crazy man, and some say that if you were to go back in time you would never see him being killed everything would be normal, a normal day in the lfie of a jew.

hmm, perhaps jesus never existed. it was 2000 years ago, 'he' was born, we don't know much about someone that lived that long ago... although we know things about tutankamen, you may see we rarely know things about him. But I can still deny he had powers or was even real... this is how it works:

I travel back in time, say things that sound scary, get peoples, 'faith' 2000years later, big religion, people are fighting against other people from 'my' religion which does not exist and would be like fightning for nothing...
Offline
 
sheegothhunter
Member Avatar
Sheegoth
[ *  *  *  * ]
oh my? i had a feeling a topic like this would erupt after metroid king's went off the hook on jesus in that font topic...

jesus is real, god is real, and everything in the bible is true, in one way or another. there are debateable stories like jonah and the whale, that i think is just a story to teach a lesson and not a real situation. but what i would like to say is that some people think jesus could not be god cause there isnt a god. if there isnt a god how do you explain humans? if you say evolution, you need to read this:

our bodies are very intricate and work very well. they have detail, and they, when treated right, work perfectly. it has a design. and heres a great analogy. suppose you fount a pepsi can on the beach. a blue and white and red pepsi can, with a nice logo and art and ingrediants nicely lined up on the can. it has a very usefull opening top as well. it has a design. if i were to tell you that this pepsi can formed over the process of millions of years, completely by chance and accident, what would you say to me? if i said that it just congealed there, with no creator or designer, you would tell me im crazy. and thats what evolutionists say. they explain US being here by many different things, none of which are by a designer. so if you dont see the analogy to how dumb evolution is, then you shouldnt be operating a computer. you should be in a white padded cell.

and as for athiests... the same thing. you cant explain us being here without a creator! it cant be proven, you need faith. and its more logical than any other idea of how we came to be.
Posted Image
Offline
 
Tenka
Member Avatar
War Wasp
[ *  *  * ]
MasonMcCoy,Aug 6 2006
05:27 PM
Tenka,Aug 6 2006
05:29 AM
There is one more thing that turns me away from believing, when you ask yourself "what does it feel like to not exist?" What can you answer it with .. can you imagine not existing? How would you feel or think? You couldnt "feel nothing", as you dont have a brain capable of feeling the lonesome lost boredom of "nothing". The only answer is that you cant answer, and everyone I've asked that question to came to the same conclusion I did when I first asked it .. "its scary, freaky". And no matter how much you think about it you cant come up with an answer that doesnt relate to you somehow living eternally either in pain or pleasure. The very fact that this "unknown" is scary and motivating to believe in a divine religion of some kind is the very reason I dont, dont you think its just a bit coincedental that man "runs from the unknown" by nature and at the same time several differing religions somehow mysteriously appeared in order to patch up this question?

I thought of that when I was six. But in my sight, it has no effect on the aptness of truth. How you feel when you sleep must be the same as how you feel if you don't exist--when you sleep (and don't dream), the I-sense in your brain is completely shut off. If your I-sense is destroyed, you don't exist as a person anymore. "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord," says the book about half of you like to dislike--what I can see this saying is that if the I-sense is destroyed, the "you" that is your personality is no longer in this "realm of existence", as it were.

I must say there are quite a few different written records of Jesus' miracles, as a final note.

Sorry to bring this back up, but I never got a chance to reply before the thread got locked.

You are incorrect, when sleep you are still concious. Anyone who has been unconcious before can tell you how incorrect that is. Me personally, I had been put under a general aneasthetic to have an operation done which puts you in a state of complete unconciousness. The effect? I teleported through time to the end of the operation as if nothing had taken place between, it WAS scary (and kinda cool) but it was as if 2 hours of my life had literally been removed from my life. It was strange and yet inspiring but for the entire time of the operation you could say that I "didnt exist" .. and to this day its still an incomprehensible mystery to me. Of course to any medical examiner it makes perfect sense .. but from the I-persona perspective it is a complete paradox.

My next reply to this topic will be back on track, I apologize if this has already been "discussed and dropped".
Offline
 
Troid92
Member Avatar
Music God / Temp Admin
Admin
sheegothhunter,Aug 7 2006
08:50 PM
our bodies are very intricate and work very well. they have detail, and they, when treated right, work perfectly. it has a design. and heres a great analogy. suppose you fount a pepsi can on the beach. a blue and white and red pepsi can, with a nice logo and art and ingrediants nicely lined up on the can. it has a very usefull opening top as well. it has a design. if i were to tell you that this pepsi can formed over the process of millions of years, completely by chance and accident, what would you say to me? if i said that it just congealed there, with no creator or designer, you would tell me im crazy. and thats what evolutionists say. they explain US being here by many different things, none of which are by a designer. so if you dont see the analogy to how dumb evolution is, then you shouldnt be operating a computer. you should be in a white padded cell.

I see the analogy, but sorry, it's a poor analogy. Pepsi cans can't reproduce and they don't slowly change, plus having that design wouldn't give them any advantage--They only give US an advantage, and we're the ones that drink out of them. That's the exact opposite of what would make them survive better.. I think. The analogy doesn't work very well because it's pretty vague, since Pepsi cans are completely different than life forms. Not nearly as bad as it could be, though. Keep working on it ;)
Posted Image
MIDI-maker / Fangame Programmer
Yay red text.
Offline
 
Rewrite
On Thin Ice
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
sheegothhunter,Aug 8 2006
01:50 AM
our bodies are very intricate and work very well. they have detail, and they, when treated right, work perfectly. it has a design. and heres a great analogy. suppose you fount a pepsi can on the beach. a blue and white and red pepsi can, with a nice logo and art and ingrediants nicely lined up on the can. it has a very usefull opening top as well. it has a design. if i were to tell you that this pepsi can formed over the process of millions of years, completely by chance and accident, what would you say to me? if i said that it just congealed there, with no creator or designer, you would tell me im crazy. and thats what evolutionists say. they explain US being here by many different things, none of which are by a designer. so if you dont see the analogy to how dumb evolution is, then you shouldnt be operating a computer. you should be in a white padded cell.

and as for athiests... the same thing. you cant explain us being here without a creator! it cant be proven, you need faith. and its more logical than any other idea of how we came to be.

As troid said, a pepsi can can't reproduce. I am getting what you are saying, but it doesn't make sense, you are comparing A pepsi can that is alluminum(which you can relate to minerals)to A human that is alive. Heck, even a plant is more alive then a pepsi can... You can't compare those two things because it would be like comparing, A monkey to a rock... although a rock however can make different formations throughout time...

EDIT: btw, Atheist don't need a,'creator' to prove things... thats what science is for.. people say
Quote:
 
oh! I was visited by god during my surgery! PRAISE THE LORD!!

......
this is something called a Euporia, Euphoria is a state of well being. Meaning when you have a euphoria you can be in a 'world' that you wish to be in, or just something you find pleasurable... or just being in a way you enjoy(=D).

Atheists don't need a god, we know damn well why we don't belive in one...
Offline
 
Tenka
Member Avatar
War Wasp
[ *  *  * ]
You could never conclude that we were "designed" or "evolved" either way.

You're suggesting that the construct of a human is too elaborate to possibly be a coincedence? I think thats a bit far fetched. I believe in "Causality" or what some people call the "Chaos Theory" about how everything in life amounts to a series of chain events that happen one after the other. Under that logic, mankind could have easily evolved through a series of accidental minor mutations making a Human -as complex as it seems- still a pure coincedence.

To take your example of the pepsi can, we know that it is designed by a human being the idea of it being natural out of the picture. But the way it was designed came from a person who came up with the logo, the person who came up with the name, the person who came up with the concept of the Alluminium container known as the "Can". Though designed by humans it was still a representation of the evolution of knowledge in human beings and still in fact a representation of human evolution. What if someone had discovered plastic before alluminium?

Regardless, like Troid said .. the pepsi can is still a poor analogy .. its not even a living thing. But my point is .. just how the pepsi can was designed through a series of learnt and understood peices of knowledge, the human body can mutate and "learn" to change throughout periods of time. Look at wisdom teeth, theyve only supposedly been around for the last century or so, before then we never grew them.. proof that the body can change without set design.

But then of course is the problem of whether or not this set "evolution" was planned from the beginning by our supposed creator. Something that can be argued either way.

If we were in fact created (which seems to be the only possibility with our current knowledge of time and space), it would have to have been created by a being or a place in place where time and space is inexplicable to us as it is. If that is so, then you must also accept the possibility that in fact we might not of been created and our current existence is just as inexplicable. Either way neither can possibly exist .. with an alternate reality where the laws of time and space dont apply or the fact that we couldnt possibly exist without having been created (if the first atom to collide with the first atom where never created, we could never have possibly come into existence) even under the concept of evolution something must have been created in the first place for it to have existed.

If the truth is in fact neither .. it may have something to do with a time paradox which involves us always having existed and never having been created, something we cannot possibly comprehend.
Offline
 
DeProgrammer
Member Avatar
Elite Pirate
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Tenka,Aug 7 2006
09:44 PM
MasonMcCoy,Aug 6 2006
05:27 PM
I thought of that when I was six. But in my sight, it has no effect on the aptness of truth. How you feel when you sleep must be the same as how you feel if you don't exist--when you sleep (and don't dream), the I-sense in your brain is completely shut off. If your I-sense is destroyed, you don't exist as a person anymore. "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord," says the book about half of you like to dislike--what I can see this saying is that if the I-sense is destroyed, the "you" that is your personality is no longer in this "realm of existence", as it were.

I must say there are quite a few different written records of Jesus' miracles, as a final note.

Sorry to bring this back up, but I never got a chance to reply before the thread got locked.

You are incorrect, when sleep you are still concious. Anyone who has been unconcious before can tell you how incorrect that is. Me personally, I had been put under a general aneasthetic to have an operation done which puts you in a state of complete unconciousness. The effect? I teleported through time to the end of the operation as if nothing had taken place between, it WAS scary (and kinda cool) but it was as if 2 hours of my life had literally been removed from my life. It was strange and yet inspiring but for the entire time of the operation you could say that I "didnt exist" .. and to this day its still an incomprehensible mystery to me. Of course to any medical examiner it makes perfect sense .. but from the I-persona perspective it is a complete paradox.

My next reply to this topic will be back on track, I apologize if this has already been "discussed and dropped".

You must not sleep very well at night. I don't know for sure about you, but my sleep is just like it was never there, except the effects of it do exist. I based my statements on a few documents (mainly college students' reports) about the lack of sleep on the brain, since I had to do a project about that recently myself. So if you're a college student studying the effects of sleep on the brain or you have read from better-informed sources, you can tell me all you want that I'm wrong. Otherwise, as I like to say, your fight is with better-informed people.
Posted Image
Signature by Rewrite.
My talent comes from deep within...like vomit!
Offline
 
Tenka
Member Avatar
War Wasp
[ *  *  * ]
MasonMcCoy,Aug 8 2006
05:43 AM
Tenka,Aug 7 2006
09:44 PM
MasonMcCoy,Aug 6 2006
05:27 PM
I thought of that when I was six. But in my sight, it has no effect on the aptness of truth. How you feel when you sleep must be the same as how you feel if you don't exist--when you sleep (and don't dream), the I-sense in your brain is completely shut off. If your I-sense is destroyed, you don't exist as a person anymore. "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord," says the book about half of you like to dislike--what I can see this saying is that if the I-sense is destroyed, the "you" that is your personality is no longer in this "realm of existence", as it were.

I must say there are quite a few different written records of Jesus' miracles, as a final note.

Sorry to bring this back up, but I never got a chance to reply before the thread got locked.

You are incorrect, when sleep you are still concious. Anyone who has been unconcious before can tell you how incorrect that is. Me personally, I had been put under a general aneasthetic to have an operation done which puts you in a state of complete unconciousness. The effect? I teleported through time to the end of the operation as if nothing had taken place between, it WAS scary (and kinda cool) but it was as if 2 hours of my life had literally been removed from my life. It was strange and yet inspiring but for the entire time of the operation you could say that I "didnt exist" .. and to this day its still an incomprehensible mystery to me. Of course to any medical examiner it makes perfect sense .. but from the I-persona perspective it is a complete paradox.

My next reply to this topic will be back on track, I apologize if this has already been "discussed and dropped".

You must not sleep very well at night. I don't know for sure about you, but my sleep is just like it was never there, except the effects of it do exist. I based my statements on a few documents (mainly college students' reports) about the lack of sleep on the brain, since I had to do a project about that recently myself. So if you're a college student studying the effects of sleep on the brain or you have read from better-informed sources, you can tell me all you want that I'm wrong. Otherwise, as I like to say, your fight is with better-informed people.

Well .. maybe you're right, but I've never had a sleep that didnt give me a sense of still being alive and have also had dreams from time to time, I've never fealt the kind of complete and utter wiped memory that I experienced with being unconcious. Maybe people do experience different forms of sleep but I tell you that being unconcious for that period of time was very different than actually sleeping for me.

Usually when I sleep, I get lost in a state of active conciousness to the point where I become "mentally numb" .. and I remain in that state, sometimes dreaming and sometimes not until I wake up. In retrospect you could say its similar because the concept of time seems to be quicker when you're asleep but it never actually dissapears completely .. at least not for me.
Offline
 
Redhalberd
Member Avatar
Omega Pirate
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
jesus is real, god is real, and everything in the bible is true, in one way or another. there are debateable stories like jonah and the whale, that i think is just a story to teach a lesson and not a real situation. but what i would like to say is that some people think jesus could not be god cause there isnt a god. if there isnt a god how do you explain humans? if you say evolution, you need to read this:

our bodies are very intricate and work very well. they have detail, and they, when treated right, work perfectly. it has a design. and heres a great analogy. suppose you fount a pepsi can on the beach. a blue and white and red pepsi can, with a nice logo and art and ingrediants nicely lined up on the can. it has a very usefull opening top as well. it has a design. if i were to tell you that this pepsi can formed over the process of millions of years, completely by chance and accident, what would you say to me? if i said that it just congealed there, with no creator or designer, you would tell me im crazy. and thats what evolutionists say. they explain US being here by many different things, none of which are by a designer. so if you dont see the analogy to how dumb evolution is, then you shouldnt be operating a computer. you should be in a white padded cell.

Before i read that, i was actually considering not roasting you. You (and 60%) of all beleivers have no concept of what evolution is. So even though troid,and many others have explained it, ill do it once more.

The earth been around for a long time, like something million years (mabye billion). Do you think that all the creatures on the planet have been the same for that long. No, and why. Heres evolution in a nutshell.

Take a nearly hairless monkey species. It's all good for hairless monkey, because he's perfectly adapted to his enviornment. Then, due to intense climate change, there is a sudden decrease in temperature. Oh no, almost all the nearly hairless monkey's are dead. Which ones survived??? The ones with the thickest coats of course (or the smart ones who made shelters, but that's irrevelant). So, now, the earth is colder, and the monkeys that survived (that had more hair) pass on their genes to their offspring. Then, their children, have more hair. Then, to become better adapted, their children grow thicker hair.Over the course of 100thousand years, guess what happens?? The monkey species is now very hairy, and perfectly adapted to the extreme cold.

That's how evolution works. If your to stubborn to accept that, i cant post a more thorough example.
Brawl Code - 2835-9752-7483
Quote Dragon Posted:
Quote:
 
... That's not even funny.

Quote Dazuro Posted:
Quote:
 
Google IS the remote.  What you're doing is asking someone else to change the channel on the remote FOR you

QuoteSyntax Man:
Quote:
 
remember kids you can't spell ignorant without IGN

Sprite Duel Arena
Offline
 
Rewrite
On Thin Ice
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Another example of that is the roach and the pesticide:

You get some pesticide and kill a roach, 1 survives, passes its genes, then the next time, only like 2 die, and you got a mouthfull :o, which can get ugly....VERY ugly...<_<
Offline
 
sheegothhunter
Member Avatar
Sheegoth
[ *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
Take a nearly hairless monkey species. It's all good for hairless monkey, because he's perfectly adapted to his enviornment. Then, due to intense climate change, there is a sudden decrease in temperature. Oh no, almost all the nearly hairless monkey's are dead. Which ones survived??? The ones with the thickest coats of course (or the smart ones who made shelters, but that's irrevelant). So, now, the earth is colder, and the monkeys that survived (that had more hair) pass on their genes to their offspring. Then, their children, have more hair. Then, to become better adapted, their children grow thicker hair.Over the course of 100thousand years, guess what happens?? The monkey species is now very hairy, and perfectly adapted to the extreme cold.


thats a good story but its not true at all. heres another story that you might want to hear:

a generation of girafes live in a field with tall trees. some are pregnant. they eat the leaves for years and years. pretty soon, the level of leaves left on the trees is too high for them to reach. even with their long necks, they cant reach any of the leaves. its in their genes to only grow a certain length of neck, just like all the giraffes before them. but if the next generation doesnt have long engough necks, they will die from starvation. how are they to make sure that the next generation of giraffes have longer necks? is there a gene that gets passed on that makes the giraffes have long enough necks to reach the leaves? there isnt, and there is no way to evolve over a generation like that. in your example, you say nearly all the nearly hairless monkeys die except the ones with longer fur. but those ones are obviously rare, and just by chance have longer fur. if they have children, the children WILL NOT HAVE LONGER FUR. the next generation of nearly hairless monkeys will be just as nearly hairless as usual and they will most likely all die very young. MAYBE a few exceptions occur like with their parents. then only those will survive, and pretty soon their are less and less eceptional births and one year there is none with longer fur. the race dies out.

there is no gene that adapts through birth.

PS and the pepsi can's design was made by multiple humans, one step at a time you say. true! but the knowlege comes from a creator! even if its step at a tiime, there has to be a creator. it doesnt matter that a can isnt alive, its only an analogy to get the sence that a DESIGN has to have a DESIGNER.
Posted Image
Offline
 
Rewrite
On Thin Ice
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
......
yes there is a gene like that Sheegoth, haven't you ever seen wat darwin experimented on? On three different islands, he saw that three different Canary's had special beaks disigned for that enviroment, one had a small beak, the other had a strong beak, and the other.... well I forgot what the other had... but anyways, this CAN happen... infact it has happpened to us
Offline
 
Troid92
Member Avatar
Music God / Temp Admin
Admin
Indeed, genes are in fact passed on. A creature's DNA stores everything physically about it. There's a human gene combination for a sixth finger, there was a chicken discovered to have dinosaur-like teeth (they don't normally have teeth at all--This was just caused by a certain gene combination that used to be cancelling out the data for teeth, which apparently had mutated in just a way to allow the teeth to grow in that particular chicken), breed a strong horse and a fast horse and you do in fact probably get a strong, fast horce, etc. It's not just completely random.

Quote:
 
PS and the pepsi can's design was made by multiple humans, one step at a time you say. true! but the knowlege comes from a creator! even if its step at a tiime, there has to be a creator. it doesnt matter that a can isnt alive, its only an analogy to get the sence that a DESIGN has to have a DESIGNER.

Believing we have a designer is a perfectly fine thing to believe. You just shouldn't say there absolutely HAS to be a designer NO MATTER WHAT. I consider it giving up the search for answers in the first place, but you shouldn't encourage others to give up with you, saying your view is fact. Basically, you can either try to figure out how our universe works and how it came into being, or you can just say "God did it." It's fine to think that way, but, as I said, don't persuade others that giving up is the only way. At least that's how I see it. <_<

Sorry if that came off a little too harsh.
Posted Image
MIDI-maker / Fangame Programmer
Yay red text.
Offline
 
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
ZetaBoards gives you all the tools to create a successful discussion community.
Learn More · Sign-up Now
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · General Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply