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| is jesus real?; wow... alot of pages! O_O | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 5 2006, 10:46 PM (3,082 Views) | |
| Redhalberd | Aug 6 2006, 06:25 PM Post #31 |
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Omega Pirate
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But due to extremists, you cant beleive both. I know christians that think all catholics are going to hell because they dont beleive it their way. Religion is based on indoctrination. People believe because they are told to. Their parents beleived because they were told to. And so were their parents. But nobody knows exactly where the bible came from. Sure, it might be quotes from people who met jesus, but has obviously been exaggerated over time to create what it is today. There's just too much stuff the bible doesnt bother explaining. How do you explain evolution if the bible is true. You cant, because we have concrete evidence of the age of the earth, and the evolutionary path's that creatures have taken. The earth couldnt be only a couple thousand years old. So X. And adam and eve?? Where did African, Asian, Arabic, and european people come from?? And a talking snake?? Pssshhhh. And a poison apple?? Sorry homie, apples didnt exist when the world was created. In fact, nothing lived on land when the earth was created. We didnt get there until plants did, and we werent we. We we trillobites and crap. So no, how do you explain that?? Why didnt the dinosaurs, and EVVVVVERRRRYYHTINNNGG before them get on noas ark?? How could a flood kill underwater creatures??? If the earth is only a couple thousand years old, when did the mass extinctions happen??? Why would god send a meteor to wipe out 99% of all his creations. Why would he let humans destroy his so called planet?? Where did mars come from?? Do they have their own god??? What about the planets in the andromeda galaxy?? If we're his chosen planet, why will an asteroid hit us in 2030?? Because there is no god. There is no equivalent exchange. Life is cruel, cold, and nothing is certain, not even tommorow. Religion is for comfort and control. Nuff sed. BTW, if you didnt read that, you dont know what you missed |
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| -058- | Aug 6 2006, 06:33 PM Post #32 |
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Elite Pirate
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I'm not positive you read what I said. But I can clarify some of what YOU said; extremists do not represent the entire religion. I've said for a while that you shouldn't judge a religion by its followers, you should judge it by its tenets and beliefs. The core beliefs of Christianity stand in treating others fairly and in paying respect to the percieved Creator--all the rest is irrelevant. It doesn't matter that I believe the world was NOT created in six days and others do; what matters is that we believe in God and in treating others fairly, with love and respect. There are those who take the bible down to the letter, believing its every word in a literal sense, and that is perfectly acceptable. It is also perfectly acceptable to believe it in a metaphorical sense, as I tend to. Redhalberd, you have a very narrow view of life, and a very narrow view of religion. Seeing as we haven't found any life on Mars as of yet, there's no particular reason to believe that God has many worries about the planet. As for planets in the Andromeda galaxy, well, the same goes for them; we can worry about it when it becomes an issue. Right now, for all intents and purposes of this argument and every other action of the Human race, we live on the only inhabited world in this universe. Now, I don't personally believe we're alone 'out there', but that is irrelevant, because nothing any other plausible species does affects us until we meet them, which obviously hasn't happened yet, so they can be ignored for this argument. There is not an asteroid coming to hit our world in 2030. This particular planet has a much longer lifespan that that. The reason that God lets us 'destroy' this world, as you put it, is because he knows we can put it back together, and because this world belongs to us. God gave us this world to do with as we see fit. |
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There is something... ...Greater than your friends... ...Greater than your family... ...Greater than the entire world... ...and it starts here. | |
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| DeProgrammer | Aug 6 2006, 06:36 PM Post #33 |
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Elite Pirate
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When you're dealing with an all-powerful God, concrete evidence is mushier than the soggy cereal I had for breakfast last May. Of course, if he's all-powerful, he is capable of placing evidence of things that never existed, and he is capable of creating things pre-aged (ie. the forbidden tree mentioned in early Genesis). Also, if the world is going to end soon, there's really no point in thinking about slow planetary deterioration. |
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| Redhalberd | Aug 6 2006, 06:58 PM Post #34 |
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Omega Pirate
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Narrow view of life, mabye so, but mabye because im right. If you believe in god because it's good, then your using morals to justify your belief. Then why not beleive in some other religion?? God teaches people to be good, but people like me see reality, not fiction. And yes, there is a meteor coming ot hit us in 2030. Can we stop it??? Yes, the technology exists this very day. But have we built anything to stop it??? Nope. And this world belongs to us?? Nope, if that's what we beleive than we're fucking hipocrits. People invade other contries all the time, with little consent for "their contry". If we found a planet inhabited by other life forms, we'd probably invade it too. And we can put it back together?? I may have a narrow view, but i have something your arguments lack, knowledge. When the methane is the ocean is unfrozen by global warming, we'll all die. It'll be over, period, so no, we cant put shit back together, and knowing our damn government, they wont come into action in time. By the time they realize we need to do something, it'll be to late. So no, god will save us. He didnt give us any planet. We're lucky that' were even we. We could have easily been wiped out before we even existed as humans. So no, god doesnt care if we die, because he cant care, because he doesnt exist. And we will die, were already doomed. Humans are corrupt and selfish, that's why. They dont care about their kids futures. Thats why one of the following will wipe us out. Epidemic:the worlds population is far to large, with airports, a new supervirus (birdflu for example) could easily spread to every country in the world in days. Meteor: We'll probably be dead before this, but in 2030, there is a meteor that has an 80% chance of wiping out all life on earth. Nuclear war: Israel...nuff sed. Global warming: We're already dying from the heat (california), but wait till the polar ice caps and methane melt. Meh, i could go on. THey had a neat show on teh discovery channel. My point is, the world is cruel, and there is no certainty. People only beleive because it makes them feel safter. |
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| DeProgrammer | Aug 6 2006, 07:12 PM Post #35 |
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Elite Pirate
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Please don't sound so "I must be correct and there is no chance that you are correct." That's perhaps the best thing that can bring about flaming. I see the way you said "maybe because I'm right" as "I am right and that might be why", not "I might be right". Tact is useful for avoiding harmful conflict. As for that later statement of "I may have a narrow view, but i have something your arguments lack, knowledge"... And you also seem to lack something he has: forethought. Your "knowledge" of the rumored 2030 meteor crash is incorrect knowledge according to my memory of documents I once read. (See that? I didn't say it is definitely incorrect--I said that my memory says it is.) Caring about your kid and not somebody else's is classifiable as selfish. |
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| -058- | Aug 6 2006, 07:24 PM Post #36 |
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Elite Pirate
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Redhalberd...you really don't know what you're talking about. I can't say anything more than that, because I've gotta go in a minute or so, and that's not enough time to type out the massive incorrectness in your post. Your 'knowledge' is nonexistant, and your justifications are incorrect. I don't believe in God because my parents do, or because it's "good", I believe in God because it's what I percieve as the right thing. And that's what everything is, perception. I percieve that your arguments are stupid because of my experiences; you percieve that my belief is stupid because of your narrow mind, narrow perception. You automatically declare something pertaining to religion as incorrect and wrong without taking the time to examine it. |
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There is something... ...Greater than your friends... ...Greater than your family... ...Greater than the entire world... ...and it starts here. | |
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| flare_samurai333 | Aug 6 2006, 07:30 PM Post #37 |
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Zoomer
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Well I think this:(no, i wont go off topic) Maybe Jesus was a man who looked upon human kind and thought: "Dude, this people kill themselves for a crumb of bread, I bet that they would be friendlier if someone gave them something to believe in........wait!, IŽll do that role!". So he told them he was the son of god to make them follow him and start valuing life a little more. The Bible was written to help control human beings.....Example: The seven deadly sins.....u cant really not commit them, so all souls are doomed and go to hell.....if there really are a Hell and a Heaven. And it is true what Tenka said about the 6000 ways of saying: I believe in god and that stuff. Also it is a fact that priests seek to control people. |
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| Redhalberd | Aug 6 2006, 07:49 PM Post #38 |
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Omega Pirate
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Well im sorry it came off that way. I dont think of your perception as stupid, i think of it as illogical. Common sense goes against religion. If you had never heard about it, you wouldnt beleive it. That's what tells me there is no god. If someone was born alone on a deserted island, and never came into contact with another human, he would die, and go to hell. He never had a chance to learn the ways of god. Is that fair?? Its that justic?? No, it's not. Im sorry i sound so "your wrong", but i do have my facts straight. There is a meteor coming, and while there is no guarantee it'll hit us, there is a 80% chance. I merely used human extinction as an example for why god doesnt exist. Beleive in god may be the right thing to do, but it's not the necessary right thing to do. It may help some people, but im not one of them. |
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| King metroid | Aug 6 2006, 08:00 PM Post #39 |
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Metroid
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wait, what are the 7 sins again? |
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| MetroidSlayer17 | Aug 6 2006, 08:04 PM Post #40 |
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Sheegoth
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Redhalberd, you are calling people dumb, when you yourself can't even spell hypocrite, do I really need to elaborate there? To All- And what is there to destroy Israel? The US could destroy them, but thats it. The UK possibly could, but none of the Arabic nations have the coordination or guts to take on Israel. I believe in the Bible in the literal sense, as in that God meant exactly what he said. If carbon dating disproves the Bible, then what about those Bible-hating liberal "scientists" that declared that carbon dating doesn't work beyond about 1,400 years? Well? If you want proof that the Bible's prophecies are true, take this example. The Bible states that the Promised land of Canaan would never be peaceful for long. And look! Omar and his terrorist buddies have been hard at work getting their butts kicked all over the Middle-East for over fifty years by Israel. Also, the Bible predicted that "the Son of Man" (Jesus) would be rejected by his own people, which happened. In fact, some of the people here are proving the prophecy for me right now. The Bible predicted wars with Babylon, Assyria, and the scattering of the Jews by the Romans. When God stopped the sun to allow Joshua to finish off an enemy army, records show a several hour gap- a day far too long- that "scholars" acknowledge and do not understand. But I do. EDIT- Pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrathfulness, and slothfulness. |
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| Gold Leader | Aug 6 2006, 08:20 PM Post #41 |
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Omega Pirate
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It's about time I got back into this. To make a rebuttal here, if God wasn't created, then what created the universe? But I'm not going to settle for the "God has to exist" motiff, so here's my fallable interpretation: God is an entity which we know nothing about. It is probably so distant from our physical world that we have no idea how to interpret it. Religon calls it "One" and we make it "Omniscent" and "We were in it's image". Aethiests say "There is none" and "There's no proof". Again, Christians counter it with "you need faith". But what do I believe? I believe that this petty squabbling is what got us here in the first place. If Humans lived in a paradise because we found favor with that entity, then we must have been stupid and ignorant to be rejected from it's care. We were expelled from this "Eden" and subjected to this world where we die, and death seems so foreign to us that we fear it. I can think of only two ways why we exist in this universe: 1. It's a lesson. We contantly try to better ourselves until we can get back in favor with the "whatever it is", and until that day we will continue to be subjugated by this world's temptations and sufferings (which are "the Devil's" attempts to thwart our effort. For this, God sent Jesus as a reminder). In essence, this is like the theory of Nirvana except we are humans all the time. 2. We are in Hell. The "entity" was not pleased with our first attepted so he damned us here forever. This is Hell, where pain and suffering run rampant, where the minds of men are warped and contorted. Of course, we don't live in this suffering forever, so eternal damnation through this seems impossible (unless we are reborn, in which case we are helpless). I believe much in the first choice. Humanity has to grow up. If we don't, it will take that much longer to get back to where we started. After that, no human can tell. |
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| Troid92 | Aug 6 2006, 08:34 PM Post #42 |
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Music God / Temp Admin
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This topic is getting dangerously close to being locked. Redhalberd, try to sound less arrogant and forceful, others, calm down a little. Edit:
But if he's all-powerful, wouldn't Adam/Eve not eaten the apple, wouldn't we humans all get along together since we're His creations, wouldn't he not have made the devil, couldn't he just magically fix the universe, reverse all his mistakes/not even make any mistakes, etc.? That's the biggest problem I've had with the idea of an omnipotent/omnicient God so far. Anybody feel like explaining this to me, without just the typical "God has his reasons" kind of response?
Not necessarily. I don't want to sound too pompous here, but if you can't see, hear, feel, taste, or smell something, or just somehow know of that thing's existence, there's no reason to prove that it isn't there. As an example, what if I said that there is a miniature, floating Nintendo DS Lite inside everybody, but it is completely undetectable even with the most advanced of our technology. Now, do I have to prove this to be true, or do you have to prove this to be false? Neither side can, but since there's no evidence, it would be best to say that none of us are born with DS Lites inside of us until there is evidence to support it. At least that's the way I see things. I suppose it could be considered subjective logic in this case. |
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| Redhalberd | Aug 6 2006, 09:27 PM Post #43 |
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Omega Pirate
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What are you talking about?? I never called anyone dumb (not that i recall). I admit, ive been accused of that quite offten lately. But i have a very distinct way of arguing, and i dont know how it comes off. But i dont recall directly calling anyone stupid, nor insulting their beleifs. However, i have a pet peeve about proving my point. I naturally sound arrogant and forceful, it's been my nature since 3rd grade (i got put in a special elite class), and since then, ive always been very pushing in arguments. I dont know how i sound until i reread my posts, and im sorry ive offended you all. And i didnt bother correcting hypocrite to save time (i was aware of it). [EDIT] And about israel, the US wouldnt destroy israel, they stupidly created it. Im talking about every single country surrounding israel. Many of them have nuclear weapons, and while they dont have the gutts to do it yet, if hesbollah is forced to retreat to Syria or Iran, Israel will have no choice but to attack them. And they have nuclear weapons. That's why "i think" (needed to add that) that it's only a matter of time before israel is destroyed. [EDIT]
Oh, and the analogy with the DS lite, that was the common sense i was reffering too. Subjective logic, ill remember that. |
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Brawl Code - 2835-9752-7483 Quote Dragon Posted:
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| Rewrite | Aug 6 2006, 09:37 PM Post #44 |
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On Thin Ice
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Hey you know, Troid's right, since the begining of the topic I have heard nothing but, 'Fuck god' or, 'fuck jesus' or that stupid stuff. Please, this is a topic about an argument and shouldn't be insulting other's religions... The way I see it, there is no god. Our physical world was created from atoms and dust clouds that were already there. We humans were created from bacteria and the evolutions of simple organisms throughout time, and I have proof of this: the scientists have proof that the earth has been existing since like 4billion years ago, that is proof that we didn't just go poof on a world and the rest of animals and stuff went poof and we all existed and now we are here. Basically, had it not been for people who wanted to learn more, or had interest in the night skys, or knew there was something outside our own world, we wouldn't be here today... chances are christianity and other same-like religions would have downgraded the earth's technology... we wouldn't know that those points of light are highly massive objects that contain a physical world inside them and produce mass amounts of Hydrogen in order to co-exist... we wouldn't know know that we use a part in our brain, and we wouldnt know all that stuff having to do with science and technology. So lets think for a while, all the time, everywhere there are people who are gifted and think outside the box. Now, go back to the time of Galileo if he wouldn't have existed would the basic idea of the telescope exist? And most important would it not been for him that we started thinking the earth not being the center of the universe? well because normally this was discovered after his death, now it common sense that this person obiously heard this somewhere and caught an interest in it and started studying it till he finally found the answer. (moving on) Now, for those people who think, 'oh the bible! it's tells us all' and you tell them, 'it's just a book not everything there is real' then they try to counter with, 'so? That science book is a book, don't belive it' see the thing is, in this example you are comparing probably a book that was made 5years ago and a book that was written 2000years ago.... or was it!!? Yeah thats right, I belive the bible is updated everyday! and most of the stuff found on the bible isin't very hard to figure out, I mean come on... they KNEW the babylons were gonna fall right? wrong! They only knew a great enpire would fall, but this is common sense, back in the day there was war everywhere and it was common sense that there was going to be An empire... these people all base stuff on current events, they are clever and know whats going on. Proof: there is a war right now between Lebanon, and Israel, what do I say? Nuclear war. Lets wait and find out to see if I am correct maybe people will think I am a prophet or something. 'Hell' is just based on stuff to scare people. The priests used hell to scare people into their religion, why do you think they pass that plate around? Here is an example:
sound familiar? I certainly think it does, I have seen and heard this many times. (Sorry for throwing all this stuff at random and jumping from the year 2005 to 2000BCE and then 1500AD <.<) well thats all I have to say for now, you can't break me ;p, you can however try
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| Troid92 | Aug 6 2006, 09:43 PM Post #45 |
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In that case, subjective means it's been modified by my bias. Meaning it's bent logic based on my opinions. I was just saying that it could probably be considered that, since that's just my way of viewing it, and others probably disagree. |
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