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is jesus real?; wow... alot of pages! O_O
Topic Started: Aug 5 2006, 10:46 PM (3,083 Views)
Pomegranate
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even though god is all caring, he lets these things happen because of certain reasons. 1] i believe that god is trying to teach us lessons (just like how when you were little you got spanked), and 2] sometimes ppl just need a little "tough" love... Otherwise, god might have done something for a reason that we cannot comprehend... like, say, maybe if the tsunami hadn't have stricken, the world would have lost balance and drifted into oblivion (just throwing out ideas of course)

and, yes, im supprised im keeping my cool, despite all of the arogant replys from king >.>

plz... just listen for once... its like talking to a brick wall with you.
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Liksmaskaren
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I'm a Christian, but I'm not religious. When you are baptised in Sweden, you automatically becomes a Christian. I guess that it's the same in most Christian countries. I do not belive in ghosts, an afterlife, or any supernatural being that have the power to create life.

If you can't prove that something really exist, why should you then belive that it does?

Sure, humans inperfect and need something to belive in. Our existence can't be meaningless. We have a greater purpose, because we are Gods favorites. We are all punished for the crime that took place in the paradise. Knowledge is the devil!

But why should a young religion that started as a little cult of poor and sick people be the true one? There are some really old religions, and why are'nt they the real superduper religion?

I belive in things I can see, touch smell and hear. I have'nt seen any ghost, gods or "signs" from any of them. Some people say "Look at us! What are we? We are the ones created in the image of God!"

Well then, God was a monkey that lived in a tree. He lived a really long life and one day he met "Maria" (Swedish tranlation of her name in the bible) and they had a child. They were not married so Jesus was the bastard son of the monkey called God.

:confused: Does that make any sense, or should I drink some more coffee?
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Hairy Pomegranate,Aug 6 2006
12:54 PM
even though god is all caring, he lets these things happen because of certain reasons. 1] i believe that god is trying to teach us lessons (just like how when you were little you got spanked), and 2] sometimes ppl just need a little "tough" love... Otherwise, god might have done something for a reason that we cannot comprehend... like, say, maybe if the tsunami hadn't have stricken, the world would have lost balance and drifted into oblivion (just throwing out ideas of course)

and, yes, im supprised im keeping my cool, despite all of the arogant replys from king >.>

plz... just listen for once... its like talking to a brick wall with you.

god cannot teach us because he dosent exist. face it. if he does exist, PROVE IT. there is no evidence that he does exist. he cannot exist, the whole concept of god is just make- belive, he cannot exist phisically, and he cannot exist as a soul or gohst. many people have been tricked into beliveing that god and jesus exists. it is just a lie, the biggest lie ever, what with having tricked billions of people. whoever thought of god is a liar. but if god does exist, how did humans find out that he exists. they didnt, they made him up. if you can prove that he exists, go on and prove me wrong. but i am not rong, i am stating a fact, god or jesus does not exist.
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*sigh* Lock here...

You guys are getting off topic believe it or not.
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is jesus real?, if flames erupt, delete...

What do historians argue about? Everything EXCEPT the existance of a man named Jesus Christ the Nazereth. Was he the Son of God? I say yes but others... I'm a Christian who reads the bible periodically and believes. Our church (part of the Living Stream Ministry) believes that you have to believe before you are baptized (which I'm actually going to get baptized today :) ) so I don't know if you guys practice a different way but: THE BIBLE IS NOT A BOOK OF FABLES, THE BIBLE IS 100% REAL. Prove it? How can a book written over a gazillion years by over a gazillion people not contradict each other ONCE? How can some prophecies predicted in the Old Testament be fullfilled in the New? Think about that for a while...
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King, you dont have to be so harsh. Yes, jesus was probably crazy, spreading crap about being the sun of god, and they put him out of his misery. But you cant blame people for beleiving such things. We're afraid, like tenka said. We can't imagine the concept of not existing, so we create an afterlife. Jesus's followers were those who are afraid of existance. If you can accept death, then you can accept life. It's extremely arrogant to go around saying your the son of god, and it was inevitable that he would be killed.

The war in israel. The bible says that Israelies are gods chosen people. I disagree. The only reason that israel isnt a nuclear wasteland is because the US is backing them. But im afraid to say it's only a matter of time before israel is destroyed....Back to topic.

No, i dont beeive in god, nor do i believe in souls. We are machines. We are no different than machines. We're simply made of different stuff. What would make our minds any different from theirs if they were sentient. We are sentient, because we think we are sentient. But i still beleive jesus existed, though he probably wasnt what they say he was.

[EDIT] sniper, i cant agree with you there. Nobody knows who the bible came from. Why, because people are imperfect. Stories passed down are imperfect, and people will always try to spice them up. There is no evidence of any time of supernatural being, and there is lots of evidence against it. And no, the bible is a book of fables, a book invented to CONTROL PEOPLE.

Think about it, it's a simple matter of rewarding people for being good (heaven), and punishing htme for being bad (hell). Whoever wrote the bible wanted control. Mabye others added to it for more, and changed it for less. But thats what the priests wanted. A way to control people. Because without the bible, chaos would reign.

It's a book, writing morals for people to follow like little drones. You cant rise from the dead, nor can you turn water to wine, nor can you walk on water or split the ocean. Hell, the bible is just like harry potter, or the mummy. Just people beleive it.

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King metroid... Do you think that you could try to show some respect?
Sure, I made som fun of God and Jesus, but we all know that we are monkeys that can swim, hold out breath, and have lost most of out fur.

I'm not forcing anyone to stop beliving in god, and you should'nt try it either. Is there anyone here at MP2D that has tried to force you to belive in god? No. Can't you al least try to behave?

EDIT:

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How can a book written over a gazillion years by over a gazillion people not contradict each other ONCE? How can some prophecies predicted in the Old Testament be fullfilled in the New? Think about that for a while...


The Chistianity comes from the jews, who had their own religion looooooong before that. Jesus came to save them, like the son of god had done like five times before that. The only difference this time was that he did'nt go berserk and kill all the romans. Therefore, he could'nt be the son of god and their savior.

If that happened around 2000-2100 years ago... how could the Bible then be older than the Homo Sapiens?
And what proof do you have that anything has been fullfilled?
And why can't anything like that happen here in modern time?
And why is the part of the bible where Jesus tells Judas that he should do as he does official? It has been found, but but will it ever be a part of the bible?, and why did someone rip out that page(es)? (Probably not. The bible can't be faulty)
Do you know the history of the Chistanity?

I have so many questions, but no priest that I have spoken to can answer any of them. That is strange since it's their job to know as much as they can about the Christanity. And yes, i've read the bible a few times. I've read the Koran too. Am I bad person if I read the Koran?
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REDHALBERD,Aug 6 2006
08:52 AM
It's extremely arrogant to go around saying your the son of god, and it was inevitable that he would be killed.

Actually, if I recall correctly, he never said that. He always said, "I am whoever you believe me to be," when asked, every time.

Also, Sniper, it doesn't necessarily not contradict itself. What you get are only selected books, not all of them, and there may still be some contradictions and problems. Go to any extreme atheist website and you'll see ;)

There hasn't been any flaming yet, so I'll leave this open still. I'm guessing that a huge ton of flaming is coming right around the corner, though.
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Also, Sniper, it doesn't necessarily not contradict itself. What you get are only selected books, not all of them, and there may still be some contradictions and problems. Go to any extreme atheist website and you'll see


Yes, but if you go any extremist website, what do you get?? The same thing, over and over, and over. People who say there is no evidence against it havent done any research, and if you beleive the earth is only a couple thousand years old.... 2 words. CARBON, DATING. If that's not enough proof for you, then your just being stubborn.
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There always seems to be someone who believes a little too strongly either way..

I think in the long run, if there was a god .. he would be more appreciative of us if we spent more time being able to take care of ourselves and less time preaching for a placebo effect. More time on our obsessions, less time on zealousy. More time on our family's .. less time in church. Its not hard to tell whats right and whats wrong, "gods message has been recieved " so to speak.. what was once a life of evil vs good is now a life of crime vs common sense. Humanity has succeeded in reducing mass killings and what not, and we're "getting the idea".

All thats left is to move forward, concentrate on what you're going to do with your life. If you happen to become really good at something, keep doing it .. you might create or do something that evolves us as a race even more, or you might inspire someone else to do so, or you might even create someone who does so. This seems to be our circle of life. My point is that we already know why we shouldnt kill or hurt each other .. we dont need to believe in something unseen to stop us from doing it, and in fact it seems to be holding us back now. Wars are erupting as a RESULT of religion...
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Well, I meant an atheist extreme enough to make a website on the subject. Some have a few good points here and there. Well, good luck finding those few good points through all the pages of repetitive rambling <_<;;

The point about the Bible not being all the books still remains, though.

And carbon dating, though I believe to be very accurate, is always attacked by Kent Hovind, and then of course others use his arguments and believe him. So it's not stubborn, just not doing much research yourself, which is exactly what I'm doing with it as well. There are just two sides ;)
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Butch,Aug 6 2006
01:52 PM
If that happened around 2000-2100 years ago... how could the Bible then be older than the Homo Sapiens?
And what proof do you have that anything has been fullfilled?
And why can't anything like that happen here in modern time?
And why is the part of the bible where Jesus tells Judas that he should do as he does official? It has been found, but but will it ever be a part of the bible?, and why did someone rip out that page(es)? (Probably not. The bible can't be faulty)
Do you know the history of the Chistanity?

there are 2 books in the bible, one of which, the old testiment, started WAY before 2000 years ago, so in that you are wrong... the new testiment, though, is all about telling what jesus did, and basically, just letters to the different churches, etc...
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if god created everything, what created god? nothing. god was created by humans as a way to control. why do priests talk about jesus. is it because they like talking about him, or is it so loads of people will listen to them? and the answer is... no, because it is a metaphorical question. i have no idea why they talk about him.
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Tenka,Aug 6 2006
02:41 PM
There always seems to be someone who believes a little too strongly either way..

I think in the long run, if there was a god .. he would be more appreciative of us if we spent more time being able to take care of ourselves and less time preaching for a placebo effect. More time on our obsessions, less time on zealousy. More time on our family's .. less time in church. Its not hard to tell whats right and whats wrong, "gods message has been recieved " so to speak.. what was once a life of evil vs good is now a life of crime vs common sense. Humanity has succeeded in reducing mass killings and what not, and we're "getting the idea".

All thats left is to move forward, concentrate on what you're going to do with your life. If you happen to become really good at something, keep doing it .. you might create or do something that evolves us as a race even more, or you might inspire someone else to do so, or you might even create someone who does so. This seems to be our circle of life. My point is that we already know why we shouldnt kill or hurt each other .. we dont need to believe in something unseen to stop us from doing it, and in fact it seems to be holding us back now. Wars are erupting as a RESULT of religion...

Your absolutely right. Religion was created give us morals. Now that we have those morals, it's no longer needed. But due to Jewish and Arab extremists, using religion to debate what land is theirs, when it's actually the US's fault for taking the land from the Arabs, and giving it back to the jews. Religion starts wars these days, and that's why the middle east will be destroyed eventually.
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Tenka,Aug 6 2006
05:29 AM
There is one more thing that turns me away from believing, when you ask yourself "what does it feel like to not exist?" What can you answer it with .. can you imagine not existing? How would you feel or think? You couldnt "feel nothing", as you dont have a brain capable of feeling the lonesome lost boredom of "nothing". The only answer is that you cant answer, and everyone I've asked that question to came to the same conclusion I did when I first asked it .. "its scary, freaky". And no matter how much you think about it you cant come up with an answer that doesnt relate to you somehow living eternally either in pain or pleasure. The very fact that this "unknown" is scary and motivating to believe in a divine religion of some kind is the very reason I dont, dont you think its just a bit coincedental that man "runs from the unknown" by nature and at the same time several differing religions somehow mysteriously appeared in order to patch up this question?

I thought of that when I was six. But in my sight, it has no effect on the aptness of truth. How you feel when you sleep must be the same as how you feel if you don't exist--when you sleep (and don't dream), the I-sense in your brain is completely shut off. If your I-sense is destroyed, you don't exist as a person anymore. "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord," says the book about half of you like to dislike--what I can see this saying is that if the I-sense is destroyed, the "you" that is your personality is no longer in this "realm of existence", as it were.

I must say there are quite a few different written records of Jesus' miracles, as a final note.
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Fact: Historically, there was a man named Jesus who acquired a following of men and women and preached what some have dubbed 'the good news'. We have historical documents of his life and execution(and not just the bible).

Where faith comes into the equation is whether or not you believe that this man named Jesus was born of God or of Man, or if you even believe that a God exists.

The nature of faith is that it cannot be proven, for if it becomes fact there is nothing to have faith in. Faith requires a risk, and part of that risk is in not knowing, no matter how devoted you are, if you're right. Those that ask others to prove God's existance are asking the impossible.

Even though it's a comedic novel/radio play/movie, the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy has some very insightful things to say on this matter, and I shall now quote it:

God says, "I refuse to prove my existance, for proof denies faith and without faith, I am nothing."

"Ahh," says Man, "But look at this creature, the Babel Fish! Simply insert it into your ear and it feeds off of brainwaves, instantly translating any language into something understandable! It is impossible that something so incredibly useful could have happened by chance. Therefore, you must have created it--which proves your existance."

God replies, "Oh, dear, I hadn't thought of that," and promptly disapears in a puff of logic. Man then goes on to prove that black is white and gets run over at the next zebra crossing.

I, personally, don't count "you can't prove he's real" as a valid reason for disbelieving in God. An equally invalid argument is "You can't prove he isn't", as both are equally true. It always boils down into a matter of personal belief and personal experience in the world. As for the validity of the bible, that's another thing that must be taken on faith. Every document in the bible is taken from, at the very least, a tertiary source. This means that everything was copied from a book that was copied from a letter that someone wrote several decades prior to the copying. MOST of the bible is assembled through even more convoluted pathways.

Now, if you don't want to read any of the interesting stuff and just want my opinon on the whole thing, you can read here:

I believe that the species on this planet evolved from simpler life-forms. I believe that the universe is billions of years old. I also believe that it was all created by an all-powerful God who revealed himself to the Israelite people and manifested himself as the man Jesus approximately two thousnd years ago.
There is something...

...Greater than your friends...

...Greater than your family...

...Greater than the entire world...

...and it starts here.
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