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is jesus real?; wow... alot of pages! O_O
Topic Started: Aug 5 2006, 10:46 PM (3,066 Views)
Redhalberd
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MasonMcCoy,Aug 31 2006
02:12 AM
Gold Leader,Aug 30 2006
05:03 PM
Yes, that's true, we are superior, but that doesn't mean we can just ignore them. Think about it: We can be the strongest, smartest creatures on the planet, but what do we do if the animals all die because of us? What do we eat? Do we become vegetarians and die beause we don't get the protein we need?

Where do you think those animals got their protein? Vegetarians can have a healthy diet if they just get enough variety.

MS, personally, i probably have more of your bull to rip at than gold leader. But i'll keep it sweet and to the point.

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A human dying cleanly by a nuclear blast (that is, not by radiation) is no where near as bad to me as one killed by wolves (on a one to one ration). Wolves don't instantly kill, a nuke does. Really, I'd rather die of even radiation sickness than by a wolf.


Oh my fucking god. That's called preference. Being killed by a wolf is fine. Why? Because it's natural, and "god" intended wolves to kill. A nuke is a cruel weapon that does intense damage to the enviornment, and kills everything within its range (which is huge). I dont care what you'd rather be killed be, because the nuke was created for selfish purposes anyway.

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Where do you think those animals got their protein? Vegetarians can have a healthy diet if they just get enough variety.


People were intended to eat meat. Whether your evolutionist, or creationist, humans descendants ate meat at the base of their diet. Vegetarians can be perfectly healthy, but cant be as strong and healthy as omnivores with balanced diets. Vegetarians dont have as much endurance, nor will there muscles or bones reach their full potential, as opposed to those with balance. Death is a fucking natural part of our fucking existence. Animals must kill to survive. The only reason some of use choose otherwise is because we invented something called "morals". Morals put a better restraint on society, and create order. But order wouldnt be necessary if we werent so intelligent. But manufactured concepts like that dont appeal to me.

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I never said that I ignore animals. Really, I help them as much as anyone here by keeping their population under control. Getting up at 4:45 to hunt crows doesn't just happen by accident.


No offense, but i happen to hate people who hunt. Your not doing shit helping keep their population under control. If people didnt exist, would their population be skyrocketing?? No. It's our goddam fault for killing their natural predators, then we try to justify hunting by saying we're doing the job for them.

Humans just fuck up what would work perfectly otherwise. I've accepted teh fact that humans are just to dense to save. Hopefully, machines will replace us.
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REDHALBERD,Aug 31 2006
03:25 PM
1 - Oh my fucking god. That's called preference. Being killed by a wolf is fine. Why? Because it's natural, and "god" intended wolves to kill. A nuke is a cruel weapon that does intense damage to the enviornment, and kills everything within its range (which is huge). I dont care what you'd rather be killed be, because the nuke was created for selfish purposes anyway.

2 - If people didnt exist, would their population be skyrocketing?? No. It's our goddam fault for killing their natural predators, then we try to justify hunting by saying we're doing the job for them.

3 - Humans just fuck up what would work perfectly otherwise.

1) I have to completely agree on this one. How violently one dies doesn't really matter. It's the amount of damage dealt and the aftermath. Think about it: a wolf eating someone is bad, sure, but at least that person is only one person and is being recycled back into the lifecycle. A nuke on the otherhand doesn't recycle, it obliterates. The energy stored up in those that it kills is completely wasted and the damage it does can be serious to the rest of the ecosystem. Yeah, selfishly creating a nuke was yet again one of mankinds most infamous faults.

2) Yeah, screwing up the environment. That's us. "Let's clear some marshlands for homes! Hey, we'll be getting rid of mosquitoes and other bugs and that's good right?" Wrong. All of the creatures they kill are not redistributed and the animals which rely on those in the imediate area starve. Happened near here. Turns out a certain bird stopped migrating to this area because there wasn't any food left because all of our housing developments choked their food supply.

3) The moral of the story.
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REDHALBERD,Aug 31 2006
07:25 PM
MasonMcCoy,Aug 31 2006
02:12 AM
Gold Leader,Aug 30 2006
05:03 PM
Yes, that's true, we are superior, but that doesn't mean we can just ignore them. Think about it: We can be the strongest, smartest creatures on the planet, but what do we do if the animals all die because of us? What do we eat? Do we become vegetarians and die beause we don't get the protein we need?

Where do you think those animals got their protein? Vegetarians can have a healthy diet if they just get enough variety.

MS, personally, i probably have more of your bull to rip at than gold leader. But i'll keep it sweet and to the point.

Quote:
 
A human dying cleanly by a nuclear blast (that is, not by radiation) is no where near as bad to me as one killed by wolves (on a one to one ration). Wolves don't instantly kill, a nuke does. Really, I'd rather die of even radiation sickness than by a wolf.


Oh my fucking god. That's called preference. Being killed by a wolf is fine. Why? Because it's natural, and "god" intended wolves to kill. A nuke is a cruel weapon that does intense damage to the enviornment, and kills everything within its range (which is huge). I dont care what you'd rather be killed be, because the nuke was created for selfish purposes anyway.

Quote:
 
Where do you think those animals got their protein? Vegetarians can have a healthy diet if they just get enough variety.


People were intended to eat meat. Whether your evolutionist, or creationist, humans descendants ate meat at the base of their diet. Vegetarians can be perfectly healthy, but cant be as strong and healthy as omnivores with balanced diets. Vegetarians dont have as much endurance, nor will there muscles or bones reach their full potential, as opposed to those with balance. Death is a fucking natural part of our fucking existence. Animals must kill to survive. The only reason some of use choose otherwise is because we invented something called "morals". Morals put a better restraint on society, and create order. But order wouldnt be necessary if we werent so intelligent. But manufactured concepts like that dont appeal to me.

Quote:
 
I never said that I ignore animals. Really, I help them as much as anyone here by keeping their population under control. Getting up at 4:45 to hunt crows doesn't just happen by accident.


No offense, but i happen to hate people who hunt. Your not doing shit helping keep their population under control. If people didnt exist, would their population be skyrocketing?? No. It's our goddam fault for killing their natural predators, then we try to justify hunting by saying we're doing the job for them.

Humans just fuck up what would work perfectly otherwise. I've accepted teh fact that humans are just to dense to save. Hopefully, machines will replace us.

Your statements are called preference too, genius.

Something that isn't preference or opinion, however, is that hunting saves animals. The money we pay for hunting licenses goes to conservation. Evil, huh? If you think that hunters don't keep animal populations under control, ask my family. About a hundred deer and turkeys, and thousands of squirrels and doves have died at our combined hands. Did we "fuck up" the environment? No, we helped it. The areas we hunt, we keep in check.

Since the early 1900's, when hunting licenses and conservation efforts were intertwined, the population of all American game animals has skyrocketed. Now, we have mostly healthy populations, all thanks to who? That's right, hunters.

What have you been doing about our animals? Twiddling your thumbs and moaning at us? Letting them starve instead of humanely killing them?


First you say we are natural carnivores. Then you say you hate people that hunt. Please, this forum is for SENSIBLE people.

A nuke doesn't kill everything within its range, either. It kills most of it, but not everything. And, compared to people's suffering, I honestly couldn't give a rip about what the environment's state is. Once again, you are putting animals above people. Unlike animals, we actually can think. We have emotions, and can reason (most of us can, at least). We have invented repeating firearms and computers; turkeys still poop on their legs to cool off while we use the AC.

Animal life does not equal human life.

EDIT: Also, you wish that machines, a MANMADE invention, would replace us. Have you had a lobotomy or something?

There is far more "bull" in your words than mine.
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MetroidSlayer17,Aug 31 2006
07:22 PM
Your statements are called preference too, genius. 

The areas we hunt, we keep in check.

What have you been doing about our animals?  Twiddling your thumbs and moaning at us?  Letting them starve instead of humanely killing them?

We have invented repeating firearms and computers; turkeys still poop on their legs to cool off while we use the AC. 

Animal life does not equal human life.

I'm sorry Metroid Slayer, but to me it seems like everybody is missing everyone else's point.

Ok, you keep animals in check by hunting, right? Ok, that's good, but the thing is if we weren't here you wouldn't have to! Nature would do it by itself. See, we're the factor which unbalances the whole scheme of things.

Once again, they wouldn't starve if it wasn't for us.

I think you should realize that there is a difference between inelligence and common sense. Just because we're smart doesn't mean we don't act stupid. In some ways, though very small, we have to be inferior to animals in regards to productivity, or cleanliness, or efficiency, or quite possibly common sense. For example: some animals don't want to get run over and stay away from roads. Some of us don't have that sense of self preservation and commit suicide. Suicide is stupid because it's a waste of a good life. So there you go, we can be stupid too.

Yes, animal life does not equal human life, but we require animal life, so just counting them out or something hurts us as well.



I think my arguments make sense, but the problem is human kind is here and we're stuck with it. Quoting from MS, we can't just sit here and twiddle our thumbs while we destroy our planet along with ourselves.
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MetroidSlayer17
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I think we have more or less come to agreement.

While nature is quite capable of maintaining itself, man is one part of it that that doesn't hold true for.

I only wish humans would always act like they are above animals. I don't believe I ever said explicitly or implied that we do, but correct me if I am wrong.


EDIT: You probably see this, but the only time I "count out" animals is when they negatively interfere with humans.

I realize that we rely on each other, which is why I try to maintain their overall health.
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You probably see this, but the only time I "count out" animals is when they negatively interfere with humans.


I see what you mean here, but we humans do alot of stupid things that get in the way of animals (like building something we don't really, absolutely need [like even more 3-story houses] in an area where animals are normally contained, away from humans. Then, when we move in, we call them the invaders and push them out. If it continues like that, where will they go?)
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That is what I hate to think about.

Personally, I think what should happen is that people should realize what's going on, and, instead of having kids like crazy, try to maintain our population, or maybe even decrease it a little. It has already been said here, however, that people are especially prone to abandon logic for lust, thus creating the situation you spoke of.

Honestly, our species doesn't need to continue growing at this ludicrous rate. There is no doubt that we are now the dominant species of Earth. To fulfill our goal of having both people and wildlife in abundance, however, would be hard. Nations would have to have smaller armies to preserve nature. In a place like the US, however, this could be a good thing. For example, if we maintained our population, the US Armed Forces would have to adopt a mentality even more centered on quality over quantity, making even better soldiers possible, with plenty of them available as an added bonus.

But such is the daydream of a fourteen year old. People don't think logically like that all the time. The really scary part, though is this- I don't know if I could act sensibly either, given the same situation.
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The basic problem i was trying to state (stated by gold leader though), is that the laws of balance dont apply to humans. Hunting may do some good for the enviornment, but if we hadnt fucked it up in the first place, we wouldnt have to worry. Native americans are a good example of humans blending seamlessly with the enviornment. Of course, while we have greater technowledgy now, it's still very possible to take at least SOME damn consideration with what we do. We cant live without the enviornemtn being in relative balance, but we can live without hunting (for sport), building new shopping malls, and destroying marshes.

People dont know how to fucking prioritize. They put themselves above everything else (an attitude i particullarly despise in christians), without realizing that their lives depend on maintaining the balance. I beleive that the enviornemnt should be put secondly after National defense, but before schools, churches, and cities.

*Note: If you feel i used the S word to many times in the below paragraph, i will edit and remove it at a Mods command*
Overpopulation. Do you know why i think abortion is a good idea?? It's murder, but there's no other option to control population. Sex. People like sex. Adults like sex. Teenagers like sex. There will be sex. You cant stop it. There will also be lack of suffficient birth control. There will be orphans, illigetimate children, and rightful children. I love the way china has a limit on births, and i beleive we should as well. But since people like to have sex, there will be more pregnancies. For some of the children, Abortion would have been a mercy, and hopefully, the parents will feel guilty, and never make the mistake again. I see it as the lesser of two evils.

Common sense isnt so common. Teenagers smoke weed all the time, and they know it'll kill them. They drive fast cars, but know they can die in an accident. Have sex, ignoring that they could have a child.

If humans (in general) werent so damn ignorant, then there wouldnt be problems like there are in the world right now.
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REDHALBERD,Sep 1 2006
06:46 AM
If humans (in general) werent so damn ignorant, then there wouldnt be problems like there are in the world right now.

Who's up for sending a superior group of humans up into space to take control of the world later? (Moonraker reference, jk!)

But really, we can't just sit here and whine. We've got to get off of our asses and do something. Just looking at all of this makes me feel like I'm to blame, so yeah, I definately want to change it.

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They put themselves above everything else (an attitude i particullarly despise in christians)


In what way? Do you mean they (more or less we, because I am) preach something and don't follow it? Ergo the environment or life? Or do you mean the air of snottiness? (Yes, I've run into the alot, escpecially in the church parking lot >_>)
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Gold Leader,Sep 1 2006
02:23 PM
REDHALBERD,Sep 1 2006
06:46 AM
If humans (in general) werent so damn ignorant, then there wouldnt be problems like there are in the world right now.

Who's up for sending a superior group of humans up into space to take control of the world later? (Moonraker reference, jk!)

But really, we can't just sit here and whine. We've got to get off of our asses and do something. Just looking at all of this makes me feel like I'm to blame, so yeah, I definately want to change it.

Quote:
 
They put themselves above everything else (an attitude i particullarly despise in christians)


In what way? Do you mean they (more or less we, because I am) preach something and don't follow it? Ergo the environment or life? Or do you mean the air of snottiness? (Yes, I've run into the alot, escpecially in the church parking lot >_>)

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They put themselves above everything else (an attitude i particullarly despise in christians)


Quote:
 
In what way? Do you mean they (more or less we, because I am) preach something and don't follow it? Ergo the environment or life? Or do you mean the air of snottiness? (Yes, I've run into the alot, escpecially in the church parking lot >_>)


Lol. That's not exactly what i meant. I mean, Christians using Religion as an exuse not to give a shit about the enviornment (im not generalising, just making a statement). Here's what i mean.

The bible pretty much says that the earth was created for Man, and that Man was created in gods image. He is there chosen people, therefore, nothing bad will happen to them. This has givin people a mentality i cant stand. They beleive they can trash our planet, and everything will turn out great because they read some damn book (please dont take offense to this, i was angry when i wrote it). I cant stand people who put faith above all else, like living their goddam life.

"And besides, so what if we all die. I go to heaven, cause im a damn good christian!!!. Animals dont have souls, so it doesnt matter if we kill them!! All that matters is worshiping my god, and whatever else the fuck i feel like."

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Ok, first of all I won't take offense to that because I'm above all that. After all, if that was the way I acted I'd be chewed up on this topic, thus never responding.

Alright let's see. An excuse not to save the environment? Never heard that one before. To my knowledge most Christians are the extremists, like "Stop abortion or we trash your factory!" or something like that. I'm guessing you mean what I like to call "model Christians". See, here's my list:

People who live by Faith (My category) - These people lead your average everyday lives using the morals and virtues taught to them through their faith. They can read the bible or go to church.

Blind Faith (Model Christians) - These people believe everything in the bible completely and without argument. Now there are two subcategories here: Stupid and Smart.
Smart ones follow the morals and virtues but they still go by something in the bible word for word.
Stupid ones are the kinds (like you said) who beleive that "God will save us no matter what" and do all kinds of bullshit to themselves and others as well as the environment. Both have a twisted view of their religion and are too blind to see past it.

Faith without virtue - Exactly what the name means, these people say they're Christians but sure as hell don't act like them. They probably don't go to church or read the bible for that matter. Still, they have a twisted view on faith and have the same "God will save us no matter what" mentality.

I think that sums it all up, don't you?
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Change the name to "is God real" because most historians (Christian or not) consider Jesus as once a living person. And, yes, I do believe God is real, and Jesus.
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Jesus was a man, that's for darn sure.

I can't stand fu*king vegetarians. Have you ever seen a healthy-looking vegetarian, huh? No. You probably haven't. The main factor leading to the boom in vegetarians is the Disnification of animals.

Disnification of animals means that movies like Bambi(cough***burninhell***cough) actually get the population to believe that animals can think for themselves and have some form of human-type "soul" if you will.

DEER ARE NOT LIKE BAMBI! SHOOT ON SIGHT! THEY'RE TASTY!

"If God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them so darn tasty"

---People for the Eating of Tasty Animals
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gamester3333,Sep 2 2006
05:47 AM
Jesus was a man, that's for darn sure.

I can't stand fu*king vegetarians. Have you ever seen a healthy-looking vegetarian, huh? No. You probably haven't. The main factor leading to the boom in vegetarians is the Disnification of animals.

Disnification of animals means that movies like Bambi(cough***burninhell***cough) actually get the population to believe that animals can think for themselves and have some form of human-type "soul" if you will.

DEER ARE NOT LIKE BAMBI! SHOOT ON SIGHT! THEY'RE TASTY!

"If God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them so darn tasty"

---People for the Eating of Tasty Animals

seriously...alot of people...like you... aren't very open minded...and you said "jesus was a man"...no...jesus was a man who didn't care about annoying details like that
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gamester3333,Sep 2 2006
05:47 AM
Jesus was a man, that's for darn sure.

I can't stand fu*king vegetarians. Have you ever seen a healthy-looking vegetarian, huh? No. You probably haven't. The main factor leading to the boom in vegetarians is the Disnification of animals.

Disnification of animals means that movies like Bambi(cough***burninhell***cough) actually get the population to believe that animals can think for themselves and have some form of human-type "soul" if you will.

DEER ARE NOT LIKE BAMBI! SHOOT ON SIGHT! THEY'RE TASTY!

"If God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them so darn tasty"

---People for the Eating of Tasty Animals

Wow, for someone relatively on my side, you pissed me off.


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I can't stand fu*king vegetarians.  Have you ever seen a healthy-looking vegetarian, huh? No. You probably haven't.  The main factor leading to the boom in vegetarians is the Disnification of animals.


For your fucking information, most people are vegetarians because of their religion, not because they're tree huggers. I can respect that, because at least they're treating an animal with respect, even though i wouldnt mind if they didnt. And you can be healthy being a vegetarian, just not as healthy as an omnivore. My best friend since 1st grade was a vegetarian(also swahili), so watch who you might offend my friend.

Quote:
 
Disnification of animals means that movies like Bambi(cough***burninhell***cough) actually get the population to believe that animals can think for themselves and have some form of human-type "soul" if you will.

DEER ARE NOT LIKE BAMBI!  SHOOT ON SIGHT! THEY'RE TASTY!

"If God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them so darn tasty"
This makes me want to slap you so hard the ignorance would fall out of your brain. Animals can think for themselves, they just arent sentient. They're capable of logic, and limited in depth anaylisis (many advanced mammals). And because Animals are tasty??? Do you really think that god made animals tasty??? No. Learning to eat something is an aquired taste, and was neccessary (in evolution) to eat creatures, when the foods lower on the food chain (plants etc...) wouldnt provide enough energy/nutrients, to support the larger creatures. That's why they're tasty, because they've been being eaten for so long. Most animals dont give a fuck what the food tastes like, they eat it because they have to to survive. People on the other hand (referring to peoples lack of common sense) dont eat veggies when they're young, just because they theink they're gross. So no, while i beleive in eating animals, the actual reason we do it isnt "because they're tasty".

Please, re-read your material before you post. You seemed to have no regard for the possibility of pissing people*REDHALBERD off. I know, i've had that problem as well throught this thread, but im no blattanly screaming at people, and say (cough...burninhell...cough).

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