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Guns; Yay or nay?
Topic Started: May 20 2006, 10:43 PM (871 Views)
Dazuro
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Jungle Menace
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Settle down, boys. This is a debate, not a flamewar.
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<DesperadoBlue> its not masturbation if he's your time clone from another dimension

<proth> also elf scrotums are notorious for being leathery and unimaginably strong
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smartdude47
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Omega Pirate
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we know, its not a flamewar :D


i didn't ask you to appologize timaster, i just wanted everyone to calm down for a second, thats all :D
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wAgSXE0LWA
"does he not know?"
------"he does not know!"
"He knows not?"
------"Knows not does he!"
"Not, he knows?"
-------"Enough!"
"did everything just taste purple for a second?"
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Timmeh
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Dazzy
 
Settle down, boys. This is a debate, not a flamewar.

<_<
Quote:
 
Icem Daz (12:24:47 PM): ARE YOU FUCKING STUPID?

:P

Anyway, Dazzy and I had a bit of a conversation, and I had a bit of a conversion. I now officially agree with the following:
Taking away guns will not do much to help crime and murder in the US.

Dazzy kinda beat one important argument into my head: "People that want to kill people will finds ways to kill people."

The main reason, I think, that I'm against guns is cause my parents are, and they are because my brother was in a school shooting. My brother wasn't hurt or anything, but that's only cause the gun jammed when the shooter pointed the gun at him. In any case, Dazzy told me that in things like school shootings, people will find ways to kill people anyway. If he couldn't get a gun, he would've gotten explosives, or lit a fire, with possibly even worse effects than before.

Now, if you're going to ask "Why the hell do you agree with Dazzy, but not with MetroidSlayer?" Here's why: Dazzy argued AGAINST the banning of guns. MetroidSlayer argued FOR guns. I still don't like guns, and will not likely ever own a gun, and I don't quite approve of the whole gun thing, but that's just bias. i simply now think that guns are just there, and there's not much wrong with them that we should worry about.
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Liksmaskaren
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The Swede
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MetroidSlayer17,Jun 11 2006
03:02 AM
"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
-The 2nd Amendment

If you understood guns, you would know that the founding fathers knew and know better than you.

Maybe I should move to America, so I could get myself tons of guns, so that I could feel safe?
Pixel and 3D artist
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OmegaMetroid2486
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Metroid
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They'll still do background checks but to very little extent. American slime! (I am American sadly...)
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze8bwp8/

Check it out and join the forum.
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MetroidSlayer17
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Sheegoth
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Timaster,Jun 11 2006
04:50 PM
Dazzy
 
Settle down, boys. This is a debate, not a flamewar.

<_<
Quote:
 
Icem Daz (12:24:47 PM): ARE YOU FUCKING STUPID?

:P

Anyway, Dazzy and I had a bit of a conversation, and I had a bit of a conversion. I now officially agree with the following:
Taking away guns will not do much to help crime and murder in the US.

Dazzy kinda beat one important argument into my head: "People that want to kill people will finds ways to kill people."

The main reason, I think, that I'm against guns is cause my parents are, and they are because my brother was in a school shooting. My brother wasn't hurt or anything, but that's only cause the gun jammed when the shooter pointed the gun at him. In any case, Dazzy told me that in things like school shootings, people will find ways to kill people anyway. If he couldn't get a gun, he would've gotten explosives, or lit a fire, with possibly even worse effects than before.

Now, if you're going to ask "Why the hell do you agree with Dazzy, but not with MetroidSlayer?" Here's why: Dazzy argued AGAINST the banning of guns. MetroidSlayer argued FOR guns. I still don't like guns, and will not likely ever own a gun, and I don't quite approve of the whole gun thing, but that's just bias. i simply now think that guns are just there, and there's not much wrong with them that we should worry about.

Tim, you are (or at least, were) completely clueless. Good thing that Daz could put some sense into you, as you seem too proud to accept that you were wrong from anyone short of a moderator. But hey, way to sugarcoat the circumstances.

I wasn't even comparing you to Hitler, but I was saying that the policy you advocate would allow madmen like him into power. Why? Without firearms, what can the people do to the Government? Petition them? Say that to the .50 BMG bullet headed toward you.

Everything I said before served to reinforce my point. Not a syllable of it was stupid, nor inapplicable.

Besides, if the Government can force you to buckle up, and you agree with their position to do so, then why don't you agree with the Second Amendment's authority?

I may believe in Freedom (gasp), I may actually support our Nation's Second Amendment (woah, that's... following the law!), and I may be easy prey (so you think) to your monikers of anarchist... But I am not stupid, nor an anarchist. I want our Nation to get back on track, and banning guns will not help. Your labels have the stopping power of a BB gun on an Abrams tank.

Sorry for what harshness and truth are in my words, but a person cannot be expected to take a slandering and shake hands with the one responsible.
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smartdude47
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Omega Pirate
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....god i hope that isn't responded with in flame......*hides under favorite hiding chair*
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wAgSXE0LWA
"does he not know?"
------"he does not know!"
"He knows not?"
------"Knows not does he!"
"Not, he knows?"
-------"Enough!"
"did everything just taste purple for a second?"
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Timmeh
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The Electryc Penys
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Quote:
 
Tim, you are (or at least, were) completely clueless.  Good thing that Daz could put some sense into you, as you seem too proud to accept that you were wrong from anyone short of a moderator.  But hey, way to sugarcoat the circumstances.
Your arguments were completely irrelevant. Dazzy's weren't. It not that he's a moderator, it's that he's far more skilled at debate and discussion than you.
Quote:
 
I wasn't even comparing you to Hitler, but I was saying that the policy you advocate would allow madmen like him into power.  Why?  Without firearms, what can the people do to the Government?  Petition them?  Say that to the .50 BMG bullet headed toward you.
...no. Guns don't stop tyrants. It's never happened in the hitory of the US. (unless you count the wars, but those have nothing to do with privately owned guns) In any case: That's not what you said. What you said is that Hitler was against guns, thus comparing me to Hitler.
Quote:
 
Everything I said before served to reinforce my point.  Not a syllable of it was stupid, nor inapplicable.
I disagree.
Quote:
 
Besides, if the Government can force you to buckle up, and you agree with their position to do so, then why don't you agree with the Second Amendment's authority?
As I've said, we're not talking about the way governments are, we're talking about how they should be. In this case, both luckily coincide.
Quote:
 
I may believe in Freedom (gasp), I may actually support our Nation's Second Amendment (woah, that's... following the law!), and I may be easy prey (so you think) to your monikers of anarchist...  But I am not stupid, nor an anarchist.  I want our Nation to get back on track, and banning guns will not help.  Your labels have the stopping power of a BB gun on an Abrams tank.
Yes, I was wrong, banning guns will not help.
Quote:
 
Sorry for what harshness and truth are in my words, but a person cannot be expected to take a slandering and shake hands with the one responsible.
Right back at ya <_<
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MetroidSlayer17
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Timaster,Jun 11 2006
10:44 PM
Quote:
 
Tim, you are (or at least, were) completely clueless.  Good thing that Daz could put some sense into you, as you seem too proud to accept that you were wrong from anyone short of a moderator.  But hey, way to sugarcoat the circumstances.
Your arguments were completely irrelevant. Dazzy's weren't. It not that he's a moderator, it's that he's far more skilled at debate and discussion than you.
Quote:
 
I wasn't even comparing you to Hitler, but I was saying that the policy you advocate would allow madmen like him into power.  Why?  Without firearms, what can the people do to the Government?  Petition them?  Say that to the .50 BMG bullet headed toward you.
...no. Guns don't stop tyrants. It's never happened in the hitory of the US. (unless you count the wars, but those have nothing to do with privately owned guns) In any case: That's not what you said. What you said is that Hitler was against guns, thus comparing me to Hitler.
Quote:
 
Everything I said before served to reinforce my point.  Not a syllable of it was stupid, nor inapplicable.
I disagree.
Quote:
 
Besides, if the Government can force you to buckle up, and you agree with their position to do so, then why don't you agree with the Second Amendment's authority?
As I've said, we're not talking about the way governments are, we're talking about how they should be. In this case, both luckily coincide.
Quote:
 
I may believe in Freedom (gasp), I may actually support our Nation's Second Amendment (woah, that's... following the law!), and I may be easy prey (so you think) to your monikers of anarchist...  But I am not stupid, nor an anarchist.  I want our Nation to get back on track, and banning guns will not help.  Your labels have the stopping power of a BB gun on an Abrams tank.
Yes, I was wrong, banning guns will not help.
Quote:
 
Sorry for what harshness and truth are in my words, but a person cannot be expected to take a slandering and shake hands with the one responsible.
Right back at ya <_<

Hey, where do you think the guns for the Revolution came from? Did the British just lend us a few Brown Bess's?

Oh, thanks for proving my point about you not accepting that you were wrong. I mean, "ARE YOU FUCKING STUPID" sure is eloquent speech.

You might as well (admit that you) understand (and understood) what I'm saying. I mean, what are you doing but shooting yourself in the foot?

I'm not saying that Hitler was even against guns. Heck, every German in the Wermacht at least had a K98 or a P08 (luger). What he did was disarm those who needed them most. I am NOT comparing you to Hitler, I am just trying to inform you of what gun control portends.

Your reasoning about the Second Amendment is a mere play on words. I could've seen through that when I was five.

My whole point about guns is this: Anyone can have one, but felons shouldn't. People have the responsibility to use their firearms... well... responsibly (like the Jews did). If someone is irresponsible (like the SS), then take their guns away. But, hey, don't take mine. Think about it- the Constitution SAID that felons couldn't have firearms. No further law required. Don't try to just take guns, the equalizers, away completely. The criminals can still get them... by being what they are- shady, back-handed, criminals. However, the honest citizen couldn't in that situation. Is that your ideal world?

I didn't think I'd have to walk you through my own simple English.
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OmegaMetroid2486
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Metroid
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No not really. I think I'll go under my hiding table before MetroidSlayer takes out his gun and Timaster hus knife...
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze8bwp8/

Check it out and join the forum.
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Liksmaskaren
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MetroidSlayer17,Jun 11 2006
11:04 PM
My whole point about guns is this: Anyone can have one, but felons shouldn't.

Well... what if someone started to kill people after he/she/it bought some guns?
Guns are made to kill, so why not kill something after you buy one?

If you buy a car, then you drive it. If you buy a TV, then you will watch some movies, if you buy a gun, then you will shoot something.

:confused:
Pixel and 3D artist
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Timmeh
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The Electryc Penys
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Quote:
 
Hey, where do you think the guns for the Revolution came from?  Did the British just lend us a few Brown Bess's?
Though I'm pretty sure that the colonies did distribute guns, and organize something reminiscent of an army, even if they didn't, I'm wrong, but that's completely irrelevant to modern times. It's the age where information and words can do far more damage to people and governments than guns.
Quote:
 
Oh, thanks for proving my point about you not accepting that you were wrong.  I mean, "ARE YOU FUCKING STUPID" sure is eloquent speech.
What. Are. You. Talking. About.
Quote:
 
You might as well (admit that you) understand (and understood) what I'm saying.  I mean, what are you doing but shooting yourself in the foot?
Er, I don't understand or agree with what you're saying. Guns aren't necessary, I've already said this. If you took away guns, it wouldn't hurt much, or help much. What I agree with is that guns are POINTLESS, either for criminals, or against them, just like toys. You can have them if you like, but they don't serve a purpose. I already said this.
Quote:
 
I'm not saying that Hitler was even against guns.  Heck, every German in the Wermacht at least had a K98 or a P08 (luger).  What he did was disarm those who needed them most.  I am NOT comparing you to Hitler, I am just trying to inform you of what gun control portends.
Shut up. Now. If you're going to insult me like that, and then deny doing it, when it's RIGHT THERE on the previous page, then I don't think there's any hope for your apologies, and you should stop before I really blow my top.
Quote:
 
Your reasoning about the Second Amendment is a mere play on words.  I could've seen through that when I was five.
There is no pun in "We are not taking the US Constitution for granted in this topic." The only reason I can imagine that you could see through something that doesn't exist when you were 5 and now, is that you imagined it being there when you were 5, and your intelligence didn't increase over the years.
Quote:
 
My whole point about guns is this:  Anyone can have one, but felons shouldn't.  People have the responsibility to use their firearms... well... responsibly (like the Jews did).  If someone is irresponsible (like the SS), then take their guns away.  But, hey, don't take mine.  Think about it- the Constitution SAID that felons couldn't have firearms.  No further law required.  Don't try to just take guns, the equalizers, away completely.  The criminals can still get them... by being what they are- shady, back-handed, criminals.  However, the honest citizen couldn't in that situation.  Is that your ideal world?
Um, you can't take guns away from felons... As you just said. That Constitutional law does nothing. That was the whole reason I agreed with Daz. Felons WILL have guns. That's a given. As for the second part, in which you contradicted yourself, that's the part I already agree with Daz on. The difference is, you're making it sound like guns are the single best defense against crime, while I believe that guns help little, but they hurt little as well, so they balance out. You may as well keep them.

Summary: I think there's no reason to take away guns, or to keep them, and you think the world would fall apart if we took them away. That's a pretty significant clah of opinion. Oh, thanks for proving my point about me not accepting that you were right.
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smartdude47
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Omega Pirate
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...alright, how about this

we take away guns= bad people still get them= were fucked!
we dont take away guns=bad people still get them=were fucked!

guns kill animals= good or bad, based on opinion
guns kill people= what kind of people?

as i said, guns are a tool, and we do not have the ability to take them away, nor the capacity for humanity to grow into peace, so we=screwed


lets stop posting other's quotes please, that is not really needed, the majority of us have stated our own opinion, which is what this forum is meant for, however, trying to prove another's wrong, is a totally different thing!

how about we just state our opinions if not stated already, and go ahead and go on with life, and leave this at a quiet resolve?

*hides under hiding chair........finds old chip on the ground...munches*
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wAgSXE0LWA
"does he not know?"
------"he does not know!"
"He knows not?"
------"Knows not does he!"
"Not, he knows?"
-------"Enough!"
"did everything just taste purple for a second?"
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OmegaMetroid2486
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Metroid
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I think I'll remain neutral...
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze8bwp8/

Check it out and join the forum.
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Troid92
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Timaster,Jun 12 2006
12:28 AM
Quote:
 
I'm not saying that Hitler was even against guns.  Heck, every German in the Wermacht at least had a K98 or a P08 (luger).  What he did was disarm those who needed them most.  I am NOT comparing you to Hitler, I am just trying to inform you of what gun control portends.
Shut up. Now. If you're going to insult me like that, and then deny doing it, when it's RIGHT THERE on the previous page, then I don't think there's any hope for your apologies, and you should stop before I really blow my top.

Actually, I really don't think he meant to insult you. He was comparing Hitler to politicians, and saying what would most likely happen if guns were taken away from the public. It doesn't really look like he intended to compare you to Hitler.

As for where I stand, I agree with Daz and Timaster. I'm against guns, because I find them a stupid thing to have. Same with all weapons (excluding useful tools like knives, because their good uses outweigh the bad, which, yes, is an opinion, but I'm assuming most people will agree with around where the line should be drawn). They're only meant for killing, and last time I checked, killing people gets you nowhere. The only reason the public, police, etc. them is so they can defend themselves from criminals. (well, also hunting, but most people just hunt as a game) Guns to defend from more guns. So if we could magically take away all guns from the world, wipe everything about guns from every person's brain, and destroy everything else about guns in the world, we would be safe until somebody reinvents the gun... ...Like we could ever do that. All we can do is take away guns from the public, which, as stated here many times before, would simply lead to disaster.
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