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reserves Staurday Semi
Topic Started: Jan 28 2012, 05:03 PM (635 Views)
honda
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League 2
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Just got in from the reseverve game Grove lost 1-0, were never at the races, only about 3 players turned up, can,t tell what system they play as there doesn,t seem to be any, midfield seems to be a strange area because no Grove players ever got in that area,good ref and line officials, Audley were by far the best team Kdsgrove look to me as if they need a bit of coaching from Wardy and Bucko.
Very disappointing,and , Danny Bull is wasted playing for the 2nd team he would benefit playing regularly with Kins and Walks up front he is getting no guidance whatsoever from the 2nd team set up
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reece1
Premier League
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anyone got the score from the semi final,thanks
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Blue Mugge
Evo-Stik Division One
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I'm glad that you've expressed your views on the forum, Honda - because you are speaking as a Kidsgrove fan, whereas I am a player's dad. I totally agree with everything you say apart from the fact that Danny Bull is wasted in the reserves. What about all the other players ? I always believed that a players should shine in the reserves first before been given a chance to step up. The last 2 games, Danny has been subbed due to ineffective performances, whereas other players have still played well. Sam Hall played against Ball Haye Green and basically "ran the show" - as you would expect from a first teamer. Even the Ball Haye Green fans/players stated that he was a class act ! Had Dave Walker played against Audley, they wouldn't have been able to handle him, even if the service from reserve team players was not up to the standard he gets from the first team. Basically, I am saying that if a player is "of first team ability", he will stand out in the reserves irrespective of the ability of those around him.

Carl does a great job, but admits that his technical ability is limited. The team needs a coach of the Dave Beswick/Melvyn Wilkes ability to assist Carl, if the players are to progress. There are too many players of limited ability who will never make first team standard, so what is the point of keeping them. I assume that the prime function of the reserve team is to provide players for the first team. At the moment it is merely giving a game of footie to players of lesser ability. So I feel the club should either give a bit more attention to the reserve team set-up or scrap it.
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honda
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Blue Mugge,thanks for interesting comments in your post, however much as I rate Walks very very highly I seldom see him "chasing back" to get the ball basically because he gets fed from midfield or defence, so, I will defend Danny Bull,s peformance when as you saw for yourself last Saturday Grove,s midfield was non-existant, so neither of the "front two" were getting any service therefore it makes it difficult to "stand out"as it were.
I do agree with you that the reserves do seem a little bit lightweight and it is puzzling to think that a club of Groves standing cannot attract better players to play in the feeder team or am I missing the point.
What I saw on Saturday was a side that only played with one wing "left side" at the expense of a totally vacant (for 85%of the time) right side.
Going back to Danny Bull I do feel that he has potential and perhaps you are being a little bit harsh, although if you are a players dad then you obviously watch more reserve games than me so are therefore better able to judge


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Blue Mugge
Evo-Stik Division One
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Danny Bull is a decent young player without doubt. It just "appeared" from your thread that based on your recent visit, you thought that he was the only one with first team potential. I assume that this is the first time you have watched the rest of the team and therefore if you are judging them on this match alone, you should also Danny Bull on the same basis.
It is difficult to play well in a team that is struggling, because football is a TEAM GAME. My point was that players of first team ability - ie Sam Hall - can still look a class player, even in the reserve team.
I am glad that you noticed that the game is always played down the left hand side, even when the right flank is wide open. Maybe Wardy and Bucko don't need to give the reserves some coaching, as you seem to have spotted most of the problems after one game. Can you drag yourself away from supporting the first team and give your assistance to the reserves ?
Finally, yes I do watch every reserve team match and most weeks it is a very painful experience.
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honda
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Blue Mugge
Jan 31 2012, 08:59 AM
Danny Bull is a decent young player without doubt. It just "appeared" from your thread that based on your recent visit, you thought that he was the only one with first team potential. I assume that this is the first time you have watched the rest of the team and therefore if you are judging them on this match alone, you should also Danny Bull on the same basis.
It is difficult to play well in a team that is struggling, because football is a TEAM GAME. My point was that players of first team ability - ie Sam Hall - can still look a class player, even in the reserve team.
I am glad that you noticed that the game is always played down the left hand side, even when the right flank is wide open. Maybe Wardy and Bucko don't need to give the reserves some coaching, as you seem to have spotted most of the problems after one game. Can you drag yourself away from supporting the first team and give your assistance to the reserves ?
Finally, yes I do watch every reserve team match and most weeks it is a very painful experience.

I have watched several reserve games this season so I based my opinion on more than one game,as for "assisting"the reserve team I firstly, would not have the time, and secondly, in keeping with the vast majority of spectators when I am standing on the line watching the game I am a better coach than Fergie, however when it comes to the real thing pub football is about my level.
I am assuming that by your comments you have played yourself and would I,m sure acknowledge that playing the game from the touchline is a damned sight easier than when you have the ball at your feet.
My first post was intended as a constructive observation because in no way would I critisise the efforts being put in by everyone at the Grove.
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Blue Mugge
Evo-Stik Division One
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I thought your post was very constructive and I can see that you care about the welfare of KAFC. I agree with everything you say about the reserves and the way they are playing.
You have obviously seen Danny Bull with the first team and then seen him struggle to excel in an under-performing reserve team. My point is that there could well be other players who may not be shining in this under-performing reserve team that could look totally different if they were given the chance to play in the first team alongside better players - as you obviously feel is the case with Danny ?
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Blue Mugge
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Nathan Blissett says:

I was a bit of a raw talent at Kidsgrove, but they had their forwards and even though I scored a few goals I never got a look in there – [it was never the place for me to progress..

Remember this is the Romulus player who netted a 1st half hat-trick against Kidsgrove earlier this season. He is a tall striker with blistering pace. OK he was raw, but pace and height are god-given and a good coach could improve his technical ability.

There is not a single player in the current first team squad that has come through
the reserves - I'm sure Danny Bull is getting a chance due to youth team performances not reserve team. Is this because no-one in the reserves is good enough or is Nathan Blissett right ? Remember the Reserves held the 1st team for 45 minutes in a pre-season friendly - apart from a snidey Alex Morris goal.

Food for thought !!
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reece1
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i managed to watch natham in one reserve game last season, he scored ,after picking up the ball around 45 yards from goal ,beating two defenders for dead before slotting home ,a wonder goal.At that timewe were struggling for a forward on the bench , he looked a great raw talent , then he was never seen again .
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honda
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reece1
Feb 12 2012, 06:18 PM
i managed to watch natham in one reserve game last season, he scored ,after picking up the ball around 45 yards from goal ,beating two defenders for dead before slotting home ,a wonder goal.At that timewe were struggling for a forward on the bench , he looked a great raw talent , then he was never seen again .

Reece. Interesting post by yourself in the light of what Blue Mugge has said,but as a newcomer to the Grove I feel that I have not seen enough of the various players to make any further comments, however there are enough member contributors to this forum to provoke a good discussion and I look forward to some interesting debate, although I have noticed that one or two players have left us to play for other clubs without them necessarily being at a higher level so maybe Blue Mugge has a point.
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AlanL
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In order to have given him his chance last season, Wardy would have had to drop Walker, Haddrell or Shotton. If he'd have done that, would us fans have said:

a. What the **** is he doing?

b. What a good decision. We might be sacrificing any chance of getting into the play offs, but at least we've seen if this reserve player is up to the mark.

I doubt it would have been option b. The manager's on a hiding to nothing in these situations.

If there's been problems with this side over this past couple of years, they haven't been up front.
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reece1
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I think maybe in unimportant cups maybe give one or two reserves a chance ,otherwise any decent youngsters will just move on ,but like Alan said we do have a great forward line ,but a few times I can remember having no striker on the bench .
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Blue Mugge
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So what will be the approach this year ? Fair enough, last year they had the play-offs to think about, but with the best will in the world I don't believe that is the case this year. Maybe playing the regular 1st teamers in the "lesser cups" cost us promotion? When Chester played Leek in the cup last year, they didn't send their 1st team. Also, when Newcastle came to Kidsgrove at the end of the season (having already qualified for the play-offs) they utilised a lot of reserve team players - I think they beat Kidsgrove as well.
After high hopes in pre-season, I feel that this season will end up a bit of a "non-eventful" mid-table finish. We currently have a goal difference of zero, which basically says that we have not scored enough goals and and we conceded too many. So there is room for improvement all around and the manager can afford to experiment, ready for next season.
If the management do not think that this is the way forward, then save resources and scrap the reserves. Then they could rent the pitch out to secure more revenue for the 1st team budget.
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honda
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reece1
Feb 13 2012, 11:38 AM
I think maybe in unimportant cups maybe give one or two reserves a chance ,otherwise any decent youngsters will just move on ,but like Alan said we do have a great forward line ,but a few times I can remember having no striker on the bench .

Reece. Unimportant cups ???? Iv,e known Wardy a long time now and for him there is no such thing as an unimportant game, every game he has ever played as always been "a good one to win", so possibly the idea of weakening the team would not sit very well with Pete.

I do however realize that sometimes he can be a little blinkered, but tell me, who could he leave on the bench at the moment in favour of an experiment that that might come back to haunt him? it ain,t easy to make such a decision.

Heres food for thought, Twiggy and Jonno have a good idea of how the game should be played so if they are not required for the subs bench could they be persuaded to watch a few reserve matches with a view to spotting potential for the 1st team Pete knows them both well enough to respect their judgement?.



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reece1
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i do think with a reserve side anyone who is good enough should get a chance if injuries in the first team pile up.its a difficukt decission sometimes for a manager to make , but i can only think that if we do produce talented players then they will leave if they dont get any chance. im sure pete choses the squad he thinks will win every league and rightly so , but staffs cup etc is a good chance to try out a few.Nice to see the squadgetting back to full strengh now, very tough game at grantham saturday .
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Blue Mugge
Evo-Stik Division One
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I think we are starting to go around in circles now. But one last point I would like to make is that the reserves are left to their own devices re training. Don't most clubs train the 1st and reserve team players together?
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bubbleflutter
Playing in the park
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Re: comments regarding reserves:

I've read at length your comments regarding reserves coming into the 1st team, and I do appreciate the msgs that are said within these statements. Regarding 1st team football, the ultimate aim is for the reserves to move into the 1st team if their performances warrant such a move. As the 1st team manager, it is really difficult to move away from your 1st team players bcos they were signed for the club after vetting them and looking at their track record, and finally trying to do deals with them within our budget.

I would like to mention Danny Bull, who has been on the bench and had a short spell on the pitch with us. And, although Danny has been progressing very well, we have to manage his progress in the proper manner. Danny is still a very young lad with the prospect of moving into the 1st team squad. His contribution to the youth team has been immense and he has followed that up by being selected for the County Youth Team.

When me and Buck sit down and discuss the team, we obviously talk about players, and sometimes, an easy solution would be to say eg "we have a problem at left back, Paul Taylor's injured, do I play Craig Dove at left back or do I play the left back from the reserves?" From my point of view, what probably gets the vote is Craig Dove's ability to be able to play in several position. This is the dilemna we have to face. When you talk about our younger players, or even our better players in the reserves moving on, I can assure you that the majority of these players move on and sometimes find that the grass isn't greener on the other side. ##

Regarding comments made earlier, about Nathan Blisset, who has moved on to Romulus, from our reserves, I can only say that Nathan probably played half a dozen games for our reserves, and was actually spotted by myself and Kenny Scragg while watching Blue Mugge. Nathan, unfortunately, moved back to the Birmingham area, and I received a phone call from the Romulus manager asking me what I thought. I said to him I felt he could be a good player, but with our budget, and the availability of Liam Shotton, Matt Hadrell and Dave Walker, sometimes it is not possible to keep everyone that you want. And Nathan has gone on to do well at Romulus.

Regarding comments regarding mid table finish - I understand those comments to be realistic, but I and my staff are not contemplating a mid table finish. We feel with the full squad available, our aim would be to finish in the top 8. The results over the past few weeks have cemented that feeling, and it would therefore be difficult to experiment, and in effect, give up on that ambition. I understand that it is frustrating for you, as spectators, re the reserve team players, but you have to remember that this yr we have brought in some quality players. Such as Andy Kinsey, Ash Carter, Danny Griggs, Jonathan Crompton, Andy Taylor, Stevie Brennan, Liam Shotton now back with us, Ross Davidson, Paul Taylor. I think that tallies up to 9 players, alongside the quality players that we wanted to keep, you could say it is a transitional period for the club. And I can assure you that without the catastrophic injuries we have had this season, this side would be, without doubt, a play-off contender.

Regarding playing reserves in the staffs senior cup, my staff and I can assure you that against our fiercest rivals, Leek Town, we will play what I consider to be our strongest team. As the season develops, and we perhaps do not achieve our goal, then maybe the better reserves could come in to play. I have to remind you all that the standard that we play in is a good professional standard, and my management team will manage the team to the best of our ability, and hopefully give you and all the spectators the opportunity for some great performances.

Finally, I would like to say that nobody involved with KAFC 1st team does not appreciate what the reserve team staff have to cope with. And I can assure you that if there are players of the quality needed to move into the 1st team, we will try and make sure this will happen.

The Gaffer and Buck
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