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Who is the best girl for Carter?
Topic Started: Jul 1 2005, 07:42 AM (4,136 Views)
Ashleigh
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ashmo
Aug 13 2005, 10:06 PM
Is it me or does anyone else like saying the name Likasau. Don't really care for the person but I love saying that name

LMAO!!
I like saying Makemba.
She has one well cool name...Makemba Likasau
or as I now like to refer to her "She who won't be named" ^_^
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ashmo
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Good, I'm not alone, I thought I was going to be put burned at the stake. :D
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FORtheLOVEofER
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I totally picked ABBY! Abby and Carter are perfect together! Carter and Abby have soooo much in common (well sorta, more then Kem and Carter)!

Reasons why Carter and Abby are perfect together
The List could just go on and on and on!
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susanlewisfan8365
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Carter belongs with Susan. They should have gotten back together. Need I say more ?
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LoveSeason10
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FORtheLOVEofER
Aug 18 2005, 10:09 PM
I totally picked ABBY! Abby and Carter are perfect together! Carter and Abby have soooo much in common (well sorta, more then Kem and Carter)!

Reasons why Carter and Abby are perfect together
The List could just go on and on and on!

Carter and Abby totally sucked together, but I am happy that the writers made them a couple so that you could see just how different they were.

I think that the workplace romance phenomena came into play with them and they were curious about each other, but in the end, it could have been clearer that those 2 were better as friends than as lovers.

Instance 1 - They cannot communicate. Even after 3 years of knowing each other before they start dating, their communication skills as lovers is so poor that Carter never notices that she has stopped smoking, that she cannot tell him that she has resumed her AA meetings, etc.

Instance 2 - Over 90% of every day, he spends thinking about why they are wrong together and he even tells this to her mother right before he THINKS that he should propose. lol Yikes!!!

Instance 3 - He cannot even bring himself to say that he loves her during the 'real' proposal at the restaurant. In fact, he can't even say that he is certain that they should be together. He simply tells her that he is ready to settle down, and he THINKS that she may be good. Not really a firm commitment.

Instance 4 - Abby's personality is completely different from John's. She allows her past and her goals to define her as a realist. She has a tendency to see the negative and hope for the positive and she is not one who goes out to change the world. Whereas, John's basic personality is that of an idealist. He ignores the negative to pursue his lofty goals and view of the world.

The problem with realists being partnered with idealists is that eventually they will change each other with the realist bringing the idealist back to earth and the idealist maybe getting the realist to set new goals. That's not a bad thing, but I don't think that John wanted to change. He enjoyed being an idealist and he needed a partner who could augment that side of his character, not bring it down.

In contrast, Kem is perfect for him. Like John, she is an idealist even to the point that she is willing to sacrifice her life in London and Paris in order to help strangers in a country where her father was murdered.

She and John communicate - both before and after the baby!!! They share each other’s day and feelings even during the time that they are apart in Season 11. The only thing she can't seem to do is to talk about the child that died in her. And having a stillborn baby brings with it a lot of guilt, especially for the mother, even if that guilt is irrational. So it is not surprising that she cannot discuss this YET with him.

She and John have the same sense of what is important in the world both personally and ideologically. When John set Abby her Christmas gift, she basically had little reaction (or more exactly regarded it as junk) because she could not see the sentimental significance he attached to it. In contrast, Kem and John, despite only knowing each other for a few weeks, give each other the same types of gifts with the same amount of emotion and devotion.

Abby isn't a bad person. She just isn't the right person for Carter.
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ashmo
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You forgot about him saying that there is something about her that makes him love her.
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Ashleigh
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ashmo
Aug 22 2005, 09:59 PM
You forgot about him saying that there is something about her that makes him love her.

:D

I party agree with the CarKem there (god, whats happening to me!)
Kem and Carter do have a connection, and..well Carter and Abby are utter crap at communicating with one another.
But I still like to belive that Carter and Abby should be together ^_^
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LoveSeason10
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ashmo
Aug 22 2005, 04:59 PM
You forgot about him saying that there is something about her that makes him love her.

Yes and he says it to her mother (not to Abby) which he prefaces by stating that he thinks this way 1 hour out of the other 24. So basically less than 10% of the time he THINKS he's in love and the other percent he is trying to figure out why in the world he is even with her.

That's a sad basis for a relationship and we saw it, predictably, fall apart less than 1 year after they got together.

In contrast, Carter has told Kem repeatedly (in Season 10 and Season 11) that she is the person with whom he wants to spend the "rest of his life". I don't recall him every saying anything like that to Abby or even to someone close to Abby.


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ashmo
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I just don't see this connection. Yeah I've heard people talk about the ton of reasons they shouldn't be together but then I hear alot more people give alot more reasons why they should and I lean back to Carter and Abby. Also there are so many different circumstances with Carter and Abby that got in the way most of which have made a 180 turn.

Again I'll say I don't see a connection except their child I see more connections with Carter and Abby.
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LoveSeason10
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ashmo
Aug 22 2005, 11:11 PM
I just don't see this connection. Yeah I've heard people talk about the ton of reasons they shouldn't be together but then I hear alot more people give alot more reasons why they should and I lean back to Carter and Abby. Also there are so many different circumstances with Carter and Abby that got in the way most of which have made a 180 turn.

Again I'll say I don't see a connection except their child I see more connections with Carter and Abby.

Hmmm...except that the writers went out of their way to show that even after the child had died and Kem had pushed him away, he still loved her over all of the other options, including Abby and Wendell, in his life.

Basically, I think that it boils down to the fact that Abby is basically someone who does not mind dwelling on the negative issues in life. Carter is 180 degrees different.

What I find most interest about Carby supporters is that they base their support for that relationship on how the writers and actors portrayed those characters in Seasons 6 - 8 when they were only flirting with each other.

But then these same people, will ignore how the writers and actors portrayed these characters, when they finally became a couple in Seasons 9 - 10.

Even from the beginning episodes of Season 9, it became customary for Carter and Abby to go out, have fun, but then have an argument over both little and big things, and walk away from each other, and then reconcile. This happened like 3 times over the course of less than 1 year.

In other words, the writers consistently wrote the flaws of those characters as a couple.

Season 10 continued more of the same, when Abby basically threw Carter out of her apartment and then left his clothes in a plastic bag on his locker for everyone to see (although the fact that all of his belongings could fit into 1 small grocery bag despite months of having lived together was a pretty good indication that those 2 were not really together the way that Carbies think they were).

The only difference is that in Season 10, Carter GROWS UP and takes the adult approach. Instead of being indirect about breaking up (i.e., clothes on locker door, asking for keys back, being angry but not telling him why, etc.), he finally comes out and says/writes it in the episode, "Dear Abby".

In short, their breakup and the reasons for the breakup were CONSISTENT with how the relationship was written long before NW decided to leave the show.

I find it a bit humorous that Carby's cite things that the writers wrote as reasons why they should be together (i.e., the 1 hour comment, etc.) but then ignore the writers consistent efforts when it comes to Carby's demise.

In contrast, not only is Kem a person with a positive outlook on life despite the racism her parents encountered and despite her father's murder, but like John, she has elements of a girlish charm (of course in his case that's boyish charm) that she is not afraid to display. They share the same causes and motivations for those causes.

Whereas, Abby and John just worked together but their motivations for doing that work were completely different.

In real life, workplace romances are common because familiarity often breeds curiosity. But in real life, workplace romances also have a high crash and burn rate because familiarity is not the same as love.

We did not see that with Carol and Doug who ultimately ending up having a successful reunion, but the writers had an opportunity to show that aspect of workplace relationships with Carter and Abby and they took it.
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Ashleigh
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First off - Not getting into a fight over this. It's already happened a thousand times on here and it never goes anywhere. ^_^ So I'm waving a white flag before I even begin :)

Anywyas, Carter has told Kem he loves her a thousand times and he only ever told Maggie that he loves Abby- we can't change that. But Carter tells Kem all the time because he didn't tell Abby and well, look how their relationship panned out... :P

Carter spoke of his life going off track and about how he want's to find that point and fix it. I think Carter is convinced his life went scatters when the baby died - but, I on the other hand (and a collection of other ER fans *Not specifically Carbies, or CarKems*) believe, or like to, that his life went off course at Gamma's death - which then all lead into the Carby breakdown and Carter's trip to Africa. I think Africa offered Carter a sort of buffer against everything else. He didn't have to deal with Abby and all her drama in Africa, and well, later he met Kem and I guess the rest is history.


Quote:
 
What I find most interest about Carby supporters is that they base their support for that relationship on how the writers and actors portrayed those characters in Seasons 6 - 8 when they were only flirting with each other.

But then these same people, will ignore how the writers and actors portrayed these characters, when they finally became a couple in Seasons 9 - 10.

Even from the beginning episodes of Season 9, it became customary for Carter and Abby to go out, have fun, but then have an argument over both little and big things, and walk away from each other, and then reconcile. This happened like 3 times over the course of less than 1 year.


LOL!! YOu are right! I'll be the first to admitt that. Carter and Abby fought over the whole "drinking" issue twice in the first four episodes (Once in Choas Theory, then again in Walk Like a Man). It presented itself once again in Tell me Where it Hurts, then AGAIN! in No Strings Attatched...then A boy Falling out of the Sky.
Drinking was always the elephant in the room with Carby and until recently I think it always posed a threat to Abby.
Carter didn't propose because Abby said she didn't think people (herself in particular) couldn't change. But since then we've seen her contradict herself. Look at her now! She's a totally different Abby. If she was the same Abby as she was in Season 9 we would have seen her console herself with alcohol after the kidnapping - we didn't because she HAS infact changed.

room for interpretation there.

Carter rushes to Paris to see Kem - does he get the welcome he wants? No. She's with another guy and although they claim to speak everyday and know everything that's going on in each others lives Carter didn't seem to know about that guy. Kem even asked him if he had been seeing anyone. I'd hardly call that proper communication....
Anyway! Even at the end of 12.21 after Carter has given Kem the proclaimation of her life she just stands there....smiling like an idiot (no offense there btw). For a split second when I was watching that, part of me was waiting, even wanting her to respond differently. I think I would have loosened my grasp on Carby a bit if she had. But no, she jst stood there ;) It just didn't seem right.

Putting Abby, and Carby aside I'd like to see Carter happy - god, I don't think anyone deserves it more than him!! As for Kem, I don't know. I don't get that "squee" feeling when I see them together - like I did with Mark and Elizabeth and Carol and Doug, or even Kerry and Sandy. That lack of hope in CarKem isn't swayed by my ship - I actually liked Jake and Abby for a couple of episodes (before I got scared of Eion Bailey). All I'm saying is I wouldn't be surprised if CarKem didn't end the way you might hope (regardless of a carby reunion, which is a dismal dream :P ).

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In real life, workplace romances are common because familiarity often breeds curiosity. But in real life, workplace romances also have a high crash and burn rate because familiarity is not the same as love.

That is true, it is. I'm not going to list how carby contradicts this - partly(entirley) because it doesn't.
But at the end of the day, carbies were always delusional. We're not hurting anyone, and so what if we're wrong.

It's only TV and after shipping Carby since Season 7 it's understandable if some of us don't want to let go of it...just yet. ^_^
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Gemma
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I think Anna Del Amico would have been the best girlfriend for Carter. They were great friends and had chemistry, unlike the Carby pairing.

I've never been a Carby and am so glad that Carter left the series happy and without her.

I like Maura Tierney as an actress, I've seen quite a few of her films and she's been great in them, but I don't like Abby as a character.
Formerly known as enruobmal

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LoveSeason10
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Where to begin...

First of all, I love how you start your post :roll: - this is not a war but for those people who are new to ER I want all aspects of the Carby relationship explored instead of just a focus on those parts that fit a pro-Carter/Abby union.

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But Carter tells Kem all the time because he didn't tell Abby and well, look how their relationship panned out...


But Carter has had several relationships with women and he never says "I love you", until he really means it. The fact is he confessed to Abby's mother that over 90% of the time that he and Abby are together he wonders why he even bothers. And he says that the day before he is going to propose (Ugh...) - a proposal where he has not even convinced himself that he loves her, rather he specifically says he THINKS it would be good for him to settle down now. Sorry, but that's not love – it’s convenience.


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.... If she was the same Abby as she was in Season 9 we would have seen her console herself with alcohol after the kidnapping - we didn't because she HAS infact changed.

room for interpretation there.


lol - you're right. They have changed her character in Seasons 10 and 11, but I am also a bit disappointed.

Her character change seemed to happen overnight and now there is little-to-no mention of her flaws. In fact, her only flaw in Season 11 was how people kept underestimating her.

I liked her character trying to work through her flaws because I think that there are a lot of people, or sides to each of us, that have to do the same.

Unfortunately and suddenly, those flaws and attempts to work through them were completely abandoned in Season 11. In fact, if I hadn't watched the show to see her face, I would not have even thought that the character being portrayed by MT was Abby. That's where I see inconsistent writing on the part of TPTB, because the Seasons 10 - 11 Abby is completely different from how the writers wrote her for Seasons 6 - 9.

Abby is not evil or bad, but her fundamental nature is 180 degrees different from Carter and should remain that way. Not everybody is an idealist. Carter is an idealist and he tries to go out and live his life to fit those ideals.

Abby is just a normal person - a realist. She doesn't turn her back on problems, but she doesn't go out of her way to fix them according to her vision of the world.

And I respect that fact about both characters.

Quote:
 
Carter rushes to Paris to see Kem - does he get the welcome he wants? No. She's with another guy and although they claim to speak everyday and know everything that's going on in each others lives Carter didn't seem to know about that guy. Kem even asked him if he had been seeing anyone. I'd hardly call that proper communication....
Anyway! Even at the end of 12.21 after Carter has given Kem the proclaimation of her life she just stands there....smiling like an idiot (no offense there btw). For a split second when I was watching that, part of me was waiting, even wanting her to respond differently. I think I would have loosened my grasp on Carby a bit if she had. But no, she jst stood there ;) It just didn't seem right.


Actually, the smiling instead of falling into his arms was to appeal to the older demographic that felt such a scenario would be way too sappy and cliché.

Instead, leave it with her smiling and happy that he took the time to come back to her even though he didn't owe her anything. We know that she said yes to them exploring a relationship because of his comments in the epi, "The Show Must Go On".

As far as Michel and Wendell are concerned, neither Kem nor Carter were married or engaged to each other. In fact, both characters admit in "Makemba" that their relationship has been very fast.

Adding other people into the mix and then showing that John and Kem still return to each other only strengthens the claim that they were not together just for convenience or the baby. Rather, there is proof (in my opinion, :P ) that they have a connection that overcomes all other earlier concerns and criticisms.

Anyway - I like this discussion because it is fun and now people who are new get to see 2 sides represented.

I know that it's hard to let go of some things, and since this is all fictional anyway, at least you won't have to let go of Carby. :grr: and :D

However, I have moved on to Kem and I think that it is a much more positive and adult relationship for Carter.
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bigshow
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Hmmm, well I've been debating if I should get involved with this little arguement and opinion fest. All I'm going to say and this is what I believe and will always believe:

Carter is with Kem because that was the only way to write him out of the show. I believe 100% that if Maura Tierney and Noah Wyle's contracts ended the same year...they would have been together no doubt about it.

Also, how Carter was thinking about Abby for 23 hours and how they are wrong for each other....in the end the only conclusion he came to was that in the final hour...they are meant to be together. He then realizes he was thinking about her for 24 hours. I don't know, but I find that romantic and in love. In addition, it also shows that Carter couldn't keep his mind off of Abby. If he is thinking about her that much, then there must be something there.

Some of the points you made do make sense in a certain point of view. But they can be easy viewed in a different and reasonable way.
Carby forever and always!!
Waiting for the greatest Carby reunion ever!
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LoveSeason10
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Quote:
 
Hmmm, well I've been debating if I should get involved with this little arguement and opinion fest.


Welcome.

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Carter is with Kem because that was the only way to write him out of the show.  I believe 100% that if Maura Tierney and Noah Wyle's contracts ended the same year...they would have been together no doubt about it. 


Definitely, you have a right to your opinion but the writing of the show in Season 9, long before Wylie decided that 11 would be his final season, indicated that this relationship was at an end. How many times will two adults like each, fight with each other, break up then make up before they say "enough is enough"?

If they were just out of H.S. or in their 20s when one has time for this kind of behavior, I would say 'maybe' they would continue doing this for the next few years. But he is 33 and she is 40. Time's a wasting. :dizzy:

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Also, how Carter was thinking about Abby for 23 hours and how they are wrong for each other....in the end the only conclusion he came to was that in the final hour...they are meant to be together.  He then realizes he was thinking about her for 24 hours.  I don't know, but I find that romantic and in love.  In addition, it also shows that Carter couldn't keep his mind off of Abby.  If he is thinking about her that much, then there must be something there.


Anytime that you are in a relationship with someone and you are trying to make that relationship you work, you are thinking about them the entire day.

That fact that most of his thoughts were negative over 90% of the time and that he felt compelled to admit this to her estranged mother only goes to show that his gut feeling is that she was not the one for him. And he used that feeling when he withdrew his idea to propose at the restaurant.

Ultimately, I think that we saw them stick together as long as they did because - as we have seen in every Season with Carter - he is a person who does not like being alone and he tries to have relationships with women (e.g., De Mornay's character, Wendell, Debbie, and a host of others) even if he is not in love with them.

Carter doesn't like hurting his partners' feelings and he doesn’t like being the one-night stand type of guy.

I think that he tried to justify why he was still with Abby because of her emotional fragility and what another relationship failure could possibly do to her, and not because of a profound love.

Just saying...that is another way of seeing it. :w00t:

Anyway, I liked your reply.

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