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Chinese frigate runs aground in Half Moon Shoal
Topic Started: Jul 13 2012, 02:15 PM (12,608 Views)
raider1011


Can we eat patriotism? No. A MUCH better reason for action than "patriotism":

Posted Image

"An independent study commissioned by Forum Energy placed the gross reserves at the Sampaguita gas field at over 11 trillion cubic feet of gas. The volume is larger than the Malampaya natural gas field, reserves for which is placed at 2.7 trillion cubic feet.

The Department of Energy had said the Sampaguita field could supply the Philippines with a hundred years’ worth of gas, compared with Malampaya’s 25-year shelf life."


Manila Times

True patriots leave a legacy future generations can take pride in. Dead forests, dead rivers, global warming and pollution everywhere. That is our legacy.

Unless someone acts to preserve what belongs to our children.
God grant me the courage not to give up what I think is right even though I think it is hopeless.

|| Chester W. Nimitz

Loyalty to the Nation ALL the time, loyalty to the Government when it deserves it.

|| Mark Twain
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raider1011


Oil contracts legal, PH tells investors

By Mia M. Gonzalez and Estrella Torres, BusinessMirror
Posted at 07/16/2012 8:10 AM | Updated as of 07/16/2012 8:10 AM

MANILA, Philippines - Malacañang assured potential investors of the legality of oil-exploration contracts to be offered by the Philippines in the South China Sea, amid China’s claim that these agreements are illegal.

Its deputy spokesman, Abigail Valte, said in an interview with state-run Radyo ng Bayan on Sunday that Manila will continue to offer the oil-exploration contracts off Palawan province in western Philippines despite objections from Beijing.

When asked if the government can assure investors of the legality of the agreements if they make a winning bid for one in three areas or blocs in the South China Sea, Valte replied, “Yes, of course. Certainly.”

On China’s warning that the Philippines cannot bid out such contracts without its permission, the Palace spokesman said it would not be the first time for the government to offer such contracts and there were no objections to its move in the past.

“The Philippine government has been offering exploration contracts in Recto Bank [Reed Bank in international maps] in the West Philippine Sea [South China Sea] since the 1970s and nobody protested it. We will continue to do so,” Valte added.

The Department of Energy earlier announced that it will bid out oil-exploration contracts in three blocs off the coast of Palawan, and that these areas belong to the Philippines as they lie within the country’s exclusive economic zone.

When also asked about a Chinese frigate that ran aground on Half Moon Shoal in the South China Sea but was refloated and retrieved later on, Valte said the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) will inquire into the circumstances surrounding the incident. She, however, added that Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario was not keen on seeking an explanation from the Chinese government, for now.

ABS-CBN News

God grant me the courage not to give up what I think is right even though I think it is hopeless.

|| Chester W. Nimitz

Loyalty to the Nation ALL the time, loyalty to the Government when it deserves it.

|| Mark Twain
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Wardog
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'waggin my tail :-)
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spearhead
Jul 15 2012, 11:28 PM
Wardog youre just plain ignoramous yourself and making a fool of yourself by bringing me up here.

Here are some of your hysterics which supports my claim than you're indeed an ignoramus when it comes to how coastal states like the PH should conduct itself in the EEZ:

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I mean dont just offer, just go there and inspect the ship. If the chinese refused to accept any filipino's lending arms then its fine, just surround the ship with all the available PN assets, and don't let anymore chinese ships enter the philippine waters to reach that stranded frigate. This is a serious intrusion, a big slap in the face! Oh well...


What is clear is that the PLAN ship ran aground in our EEZ, not in our territorial waters. All accounts so far pointed out that the ship ran afoul of the shoal while navigating in the area which by the way is not a serious intrusion since any ship from any country can enter the EEZ of another country without asking permission as provided for under the UNCLOS. To reiterate, our EEZ is not sovereign Philippine territory thus we have no authority not to let other Chinese ships fro entering the EEZ to conduct rescue operations nor are they required to ask permission from the PH government.

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OH WELL ITS TOO LATE: Chinese ships already assisting their stranded frigate ACCORDING to this recon mission by a PHAF plane, while our PNoy officials still talking about helping that freaking ship! What a shame, naunahan pa sila ng mga intsik sa loob mismo ng philippine territory!


For the nth time, the EEZ is not Philippine territory. There's no shame in offering assistance since the law of the sea requires vessels & states to provide whatever assistance they can to stricken vessels.

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But if iwere PNoy i would send grey ships there and conduct a naval blockade around it to prevent more chinese ships from entering our waters. And we willbe the one to assist that frigate, but if they refused then so be it no help, no chinese rescue as well. We will hold it hostage then and forced the chinese government tobargaining table.


Most of us here should be glad that you're not PNoy otherwise your ignorance of the laws governing EEZs would have initiated a war with a much more powerful country for blockading their ships from aiding one of their own, well outside our territorial waters.

Hold it hostage? Force the Chinese to the bargaining table? My dupe, if I didn't know you're a adult, I would have dismissed these as mere musings of a clueless child.


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I dont know how you managed to stay that long here by calling everyone ignoramous.


Correction, not everyone. Only you, Gaudencio, AVBSupersonic and other expats who agitate from the safety of your far-off locations & spew baseless & blatantly ignorant rants that only serve to exacerbate an already tense situation. I'm doing this to save the gullible here in PDFF from ignoramus agitators like you.
Anyone who comes to a counter-insurgency thinking it`s about killing terrorists is missing the boat. It`s really about winning the people. You can kill all the terrorists but then you`ve pissed people off and created 100 more.

-Col. Bradley Becker
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Wardog
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'waggin my tail :-)
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UncleSam
Jul 16 2012, 03:01 AM
Just to clarify, there is NO REASON or justification for another country to be patrolling another countrie's EEZ with military naval assets....NONE.

Especially when the intruding nation is erroneously claiming an entire international body of water as their soveriegn territory...while their claims are not recognized by the international community.









Granting that the PLAN warship was patrolling in the PH EEZ, and not just transiting through when it encountered that shoal, there's no law, national or international that it broke to back up your claim that "there's no justification for another country to be patrolling another country's EEZ". If there is, then point me to that specific provision in the UNCLOS.

Even the US Navy routinely conducts patrols and transits in the EEZs of other countries with or without the knowledge of the country overseeing that particular EEZ.



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A military naval ship 'patrolling' that far inside another's EEZ was/is an overt act of aggression any way you cut it.


Warship vs shoal outside PH sovereign territory. Where's the aggression in that?



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Almost any other nation in the world (including China) would have handle it as an intrusion and as a severe diplomatic issue.


Really?

Please provide an example or a historical precedent.


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How the PI handles such an incursion is up to them obviously.


As far as I'm concerned, the PH government handled this incident in the most appropriate manner and in accordance with the provisions under the UNCLOS.



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In this case, it appears that they stood pat and allowed the chicoms to exit without losing face.  However, it also sends a signal to the PLAN that the PI has limited ability (and will) to respond more strongly.


The incident was already an embarrassment for the Chinese in general and for the PLAN in particular. Not to mention the fate of frigate's captain, running aground a naval vessel is a career killer for ship commanders, as what happened to several US Navy captains.

China already knows the PN's limited capability but in this particular incident, there's absolutely no need to respond strongly even if the PN has adequate capability simply because there's no basis for it.

Anyone who comes to a counter-insurgency thinking it`s about killing terrorists is missing the boat. It`s really about winning the people. You can kill all the terrorists but then you`ve pissed people off and created 100 more.

-Col. Bradley Becker
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seWer Rat
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amateur sewer cleaner

Whether the grounding was deliberate, as a pretext for construction of a base ala Mischief Reef, or not, China knows when its game is blown. The WPS in now under constant scrutiny by the major Western powers whose all-seeing monitoring platforms have caught the frigate aground.

I think this info was immediately passed to the government who just kept silent until someone leaked this to the Australian newspaper that was the first to publish the story.

To avoid criticism, write nothing, say nothing, do nothing, BE NOTHING.
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Hong Nam
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Bought by China

Wardog
Jul 16 2012, 12:08 PM
Correction, not everyone. Only you, Gaudencio, AVBSupersonic and other expats who agitate from the safety of your far-off locations & spew baseless & blatantly ignorant rants that only serve to exacerbate an already tense situation. I'm doing this to save the gullible here in PDFF from ignoramus agitators like you.

Gentlemen please. Let's be civil and avoid calling each other names. Some of us may be less informed and some are more well versed. We all have our own ideas and although we can't get everyone to agree to our thoughts, resorting to name calling isn't the way to go about.

This is a forum and we all are allowed to voice our opinions. Whether we agree or not. Hence why it is called a forum. The insults will get us nowhere.

And Wardog... I agree with you in that the PHL government handled the situation well. You mentioned a loss of face by the Chinese. It may be true however, a loss of face isn't blood nor is it treasure. They have lost nothing. As for exacerbating the already tense situation. I don't think a post in these forums would actually do.

Some of us may be overseas and you may think we have nothing to lose being far away. You may be right or wrong. But, maybe some of us have children or grand children who have chosen to remain or call it home. As for being agitators. The Chinese have always been agitated and it seems that you are too.

I do thank you for protecting gullible forum members from "war-mongers". I feel safe with you around.

Salud :armycheers:

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Constructions Mecaniques de Normandie - C Sword 90



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seWer Rat
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amateur sewer cleaner

http://raissarobles.com/2012/07/16/captain...red-ph-admiral/


Warship grounding implications


South China Morning Post’s Beijing correspondent Teddy Ng wrote about the implications of this accident on China’s ambition to be a maritime power. He said:
Some analysts said the accident reflected defects in China’s navy that could affect its ability to exert sovereignty in the South China Sea.

“It affects people’s confidence in the capability of the navy,” said Shanghai-based military analyst Ni Lexiong . “The accident indicates that the technology of Chinese navy vessels and the ocean combat capability of the navy may not be sophisticated enough.”

Antony Wong Dong, president of the Macau-based International Military Association, said the accident may have occurred because Chinese navy officers were not fully familiar with conditions in the South China Sea.

“Even though the accident may not significantly affect the South China Sea situation, Vietnam and the Philippines might still feel more at ease,” he said.

The news could not have come at a more inconvenient time for China, which was savoring a diplomatic triumph — it had succeeded, through its ASEAN ally Cambodia, in preventing the ASEAN foreign ministers from issuing a joint communiqué mentioning the conflict in the South China Sea.

I decided to ask a retired Filipino admiral who has personally commanded nine ships, including the flagship of the Philippine Navy, what he thought of the incident.

He spoke to me on condition of anonymity.

He said:

Initially, I thought napakabobo naman noong ship captain, na hindi mo alam pupuntaahan mo. (At first I thought, what a brilliant ship captain, who didn’t know where he was going). He is brilliant or negligent. I think negligent would be the better word. He was negligent of his duties.

He explained that modern warships now have equipment that tap satellite data:
These ships now have depth perception. So they know what is under. I’m sure they are using the satellite for navigation.

A lot of devices now use satellite. The iPhone uses satellite. Ships use satellite. They know where they are all the time. They even know the depth of the sea where they are going. That is what I’m saying.

They should be able to determine through the satellite where the reefs are. These should have been avoided by the captain of the vessel. Navigation is always preventive.

And even without satellite, a captain maneuvering in shallow waters would think of posting lookouts. He himself has steered ships in those waters, he said.
He noted one thing that a ship captain always has to remember about reefs:
The reefs – they grow everyday – year in year out. It’s nature’s way. They grow larger and larger as long as they’re alive. They die when there’s pollution. So you can’t rely just on old maps. I’m sure the ship captain (of the Chinese frigate) was not using the old maps.

My source correctly surmised that it was the bow (the front) of the Chinese frigate that got grounded. A Reuters news agency report, quoting China’s defense ministry, said “the bow (of the frigate) has sustained light damage and everybody on board is safe.”

My source said Filipino mariners use a Tagalog word derived from Spanish to describe when a ship accidentally gets trapped or stuck or caught. They says it’s “nabahura.”

My source also said a lot of factors contribute to the accidental grounding of a ship. Sometimes a ship gets stuck because of low tide. It only has to wait 12 hours for the next high tide to free itself, he said. But in this instance, the ship got stuck Thursday night and was unstuck only by early Sunday morning with the aid of six Chinese navy ships which came to the rescue.

And to think that one of China’s boasts is that a Chinese astronomer named Guo Shoujing had surveyed the South China Sea area as far back as 1279 and then made a map showing all those islands and rocks and shoals, including Scarborough Shoal.

It is true that the Philippine Navy has also grounded two ships in the same vicinity. In 1999, BRP (Barko ng Republika ng Pilipinas) Sierra Madre went aground on Ayungin Reef (internationally known as the Second Thomas Reef). In the same year, BRP Benguet went aground on Panatag Shoal (internationally named Scarborough Shoal)

Both ships, however, were World War II ships which had long been decommissioned by the US and then recommissioned by the Philippines.

China accused the Philippines then of intentionally grounding those ships to serve as forward bases and demanded their removal. BRP Benguet was subsequently unstuck from Panatag Shoal, but in 2004, it got stuck again on Pagasa Island (or Thitu island) in the Kalayaan Island Group. It is there to this day.

It seems, however, that the recent grounding of a Chinese warship of the Jianghu V Class is a different case altogether. Where the Philippine Navy has to make do with ships several generations old, this class of warship dates back to the 1970s, and this particular vessel had just been retrofitted last year. A blog called china-defense.blogspot.com had this to say about this type of warship:

The latest improvements include new air-search and fire-control radars, new twin 100mm main gun turrets to replace the old models, the addition of 37mm CIWS mounts, and the replacement of Silkworms with YJ-83 anti-ship missiles.

The Philippine military earlier tagged the same kind of warship as having fired at Filipino fishermen near Jackson atoll a year ago.

China has the second largest navy in the world today in terms of ships. We have one of the puniest navies. However, we have one of the largest manpower and some of the world’s finest mariners sailing the seven seas, except that they are manning foreign vessels.

With sailing abilities like this, who knows perhaps we might see a Chinese warship running aground on Palawan. And China will say it’s still their territory.
To avoid criticism, write nothing, say nothing, do nothing, BE NOTHING.
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Parastriker
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Okay, what has happened while I was on a slight vacation?

Wardog, Uncle sam, please calm down. Mr. Hong Nam is qute correct; we need no uncivilized action.

In order to have understanding between people, proper language must be used.

Now, :btt:

Success through information, victory through disinformation.

"Good leaders make efficient followers. Great leaders make good followers. But true leaders make leaders out of mere followers."

"Measuring the intelligence of a common internet user is as easy as looking at his/her grammar."
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zundino
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Gaudencio
Jul 16 2012, 03:56 AM
:defense:
Does the philippines have any plan of what to do when the 30 chinese fishing vessels arrive there?

news reports state that the chinese fishing vessels have arrived off cuarteron reef (yongshu reef to them) and have started fishing.

cuarteron reef has been occupied by china since the 80s and is in area of the spratlys predominantly occupied/claimed by vietnam.

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spearhead
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DoctorNO, Your Neutral Observer.
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Wardog
Jul 16 2012, 12:08 PM
spearhead
Jul 15 2012, 11:28 PM
Wardog youre just plain ignoramous yourself and making a fool of yourself by bringing me up here.

Here are some of your hysterics which supports my claim than you're indeed an ignoramus when it comes to how coastal states like the PH should conduct itself in the EEZ:



What is clear is that the PLAN ship ran aground in our EEZ, not in our territorial waters. All accounts so far pointed out that the ship ran afoul of the shoal while navigating in the area which by the way is not a serious intrusion since any ship from any country can enter the EEZ of another country without asking permission as provided for under the UNCLOS. To reiterate, our EEZ is not sovereign Philippine territory thus we have no authority not to let other Chinese ships fro entering the EEZ to conduct rescue operations nor are they required to ask permission from the PH government.



For the nth time, the EEZ is not Philippine territory. There's no shame in offering assistance since the law of the sea requires vessels & states to provide whatever assistance they can to stricken vessels.



Most of us here should be glad that you're not PNoy otherwise your ignorance of the laws governing EEZs would have initiated a war with a much more powerful country for blockading their ships from aiding one of their own, well outside our territorial waters.

Hold it hostage? Force the Chinese to the bargaining table? My dupe, if I didn't know you're a adult, I would have dismissed these as mere musings of a clueless child.




Correction, not everyone. Only you, Gaudencio, AVBSupersonic and other expats who agitate from the safety of your far-off locations & spew baseless & blatantly ignorant rants that only serve to exacerbate an already tense situation. I'm doing this to save the gullible here in PDFF from ignoramus agitators like you.

While i agree with your vast technical and political knowledges on this issue, i frown at your irrational behavior here no matter how true or false. Using the words "ignorant, ignoramus" while addressing it to some people here, that doesn't make you right in your assertion - and to be precised, protecting the gullible people here? It's hardly believable.

In fact, you are guilty of inciting, hijacking this thread, and flaming wars here. Sure some of your "gullible people" will be happy enough to see you hitting us here back and forth and going back to Timawa after. Seems like you've been harassed there so bad thru your PM and looking for some revenge here at PDFF. Right?

Also, it's not because you disagree with our opinions or views, that doesnt give you any free license to insult a person where you're really good at. There is always another option to be civilized. And it's really obvious that you're using this alternick to hit back to someone whenever you got dismayed. It's really a bad habit you know.

That is why we got some House Rules here that are meant to be respected and followed, not to be ignored.

Therefore, I think you should ban or suspend yourself.
"Men of War must learn the art of numbers or he will not know how to array his troops." - Plato

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