spearhead

May 7 2012, 10:18 PM

jvelarde

May 7 2012, 09:11 AM

If we are getting 48 fighters (a pipe dream if you ask me), we should only get one type and that will most likely be the 2nd-hand F-16's.  Let us not forget the hard lessons learned when the PAF was operating both the F-5 and the F-8.

We can't afford to support two platforms.

How did you know that we can't support 2 platforms?

For the last 50 yrs, the philippines was supporting various platforms, and only ended up in garbages, not because we could not afford it, but due to rampant mismanagement and corruptions by our previous defence and other military officials.

I never buy this ideology of we can't, specially f we based it from today's philippine economic performance, it's slow but its moving on.

InkognitoAce

May 7 2012, 10:43 PM

If we are shopping for MRFs, I sill think it would be wise to buy "normal" fighters (F-16s or FA-50s) that would be cheaper to operate and which we could buy in larger numbers, while at the same time having a smaller fleet of really advanced air-superiority fighters so we can push back any aerial intrusions from neighbouring air-forces (e.g.: Su-30/Su-35, Eurofighter Typhoon, F-15).
This way, we can use the cheaper jets to conduct patrols and other such things, but use the more advanced ones when things really get serious.

spearhead

May 7 2012, 01:50 PM

InkognitoAce

May 7 2012, 10:43 PM

If we are shopping for MRFs, I sill think it would be wise to buy "normal" fighters (F-16s or FA-50s) that would be cheaper to operate and which we could buy in larger numbers, while at the same time having a smaller fleet of really advanced air-superiority fighters so we can push back any aerial intrusions from neighbouring air-forces (e.g.: Su-30/Su-35, Eurofighter Typhoon, F-15).
This way, we can use the cheaper jets to conduct patrols and other such things, but use the more advanced ones when things really get serious.

Thats actually the ideal concept of establishing our Fighter Wing.

We need to keep atleast 1 squadron made of the latest 5th generation fighters, but for now it seems unaffordable unless if the philippines would forget about building their economy first, like the various infrastructures to support it.

If only they can afford a 48 units of MRF, perhaps they can reduce the numbers to 24 4th generation fighters instead, then around 6-12 units of 5th generation MRF, depending on the budget allocations.

spearhead

May 8 2012, 04:50 AM

InkognitoAce

May 7 2012, 10:43 PM

If we are shopping for MRFs, I sill think it would be wise to buy "normal" fighters (F-16s or FA-50s) that would be cheaper to operate and which we could buy in larger numbers, while at the same time having a smaller fleet of really advanced air-superiority fighters so we can push back any aerial intrusions from neighbouring air-forces (e.g.: Su-30/Su-35, Eurofighter Typhoon, F-15).
This way, we can use the cheaper jets to conduct patrols and other such things, but use the more advanced ones when things really get serious.

Thats actually the ideal concept of establishing our Fighter Wing.

We need to keep atleast 1 squadron made of the latest 5th generation fighters, but for now it seems unaffordable unless if the philippines would forget about building their economy first, like the various infrastructures to support it.

If only they can afford a 48 units of MRF, perhaps they can reduce the numbers to 24 4th generation fighters instead, then around 6-12 units of 5th generation MRF, depending on the budget allocations.

Santi Kampilan

May 5 2012, 05:38 AM

icefrog

May 5 2012, 04:55 AM

Like I said from the shoutbox. It's highly suggestive and bias for the upgraded/refurbished F-16s.

They could have simply said Phils. needs upto 48 MRFs but no they need to be specific about F-16s and to go through the upgraded/refurbished route.

1 squadron of upgraded F-16s is enough.  Just mix it up with other MRFs, preferably brandnew ones such as FA-50s, Sukhois, Gripens, Mirage 2000s, whatever.

We can't have all our eggs in one basket in upgraded/refurbished F-16s.


P.S.
When I say someone is whispering/suggesting to PNoy.  It's not Filipinos. Malinaw na yan.

True. It didn't have to be the refurbished F-16's. I was just thinking they were maybe just using it as an example of particular cost effective and yet capable fighter to blunt the 50+ J-15's of the PLAN which by the next decade is expected to have a couple of carriers and numerous LPD capable of ferrying 1000's to places like the Spratlys or Palawan. The Philstar article is abridged but the actual article from CNAS
.
http://www.cnas.org/files/documents/flashp...S_bulletin3.pdf

is actually suggesting not just an upgraded F-16's but a 4+generation F-16 with AESA radars. Even if we double down on our budget we will have a tough time getting to that capability.

What is glaring is the actual assessment of Chinese aggressiveness in their quest for dominance in the WPS in the coming years. Knowing our Congress and senate, they probably will make fun it. This Scarborough Shoal incident is a good wake up call regarding the Chinese resolved and indicative of its future intentions.

fernandez705

May 9 2012, 01:49 PM

DND eyes second-hand jets, gunboats from other countries

The DND is eyeing second-hand fighter jets and missile-firing gunboats from at least four states apart from the US, there are France, Italy, the United Kingdom and South Korea. (photo : enemyforces)

MANILA, Philippines - The Department of National Defense (DND) is eyeing second-hand fighter jets and missile-firing gunboats from at least four friendly states apart from the United States in line with the country’s ongoing effort to build a credible territorial defense.

According to Peter Paul Galvez, DND spokesman, there are now ongoing acquisition efforts for these air and sea fighting equipment from France, Italy, the United Kingdom and South Korea.

“We now have this defense cooperative arrangements with these countries and through this scheme we will able to acquire fighter jets and gunboats at a lower price from them,” Galvez said yesterday.

Among the factors being considered by the department in its defense procurement program are the capability, longevity and cost of maintenance of these air and naval assets.

Now locked in a standoff with China over Panatag Shoal in Zambales, the country was earlier reported to be eyeing the procurement of a squadron of second-hand F-16 fighter planes and gunboats from the US Coast Guard.

“It’s not necessarily F-16s. We are also looking at jetfighters with the same capability as that of the F-16s but are cost-efficient and low in maintenance,” he said.

He added the acquisition program would also cover the Navy, which is awaiting transfer of the Hamilton-class cutter USS Dallas later this year.

The defense acquisition program is among 132 projects the department is eyeing to complete before the end of July.

“With the full backing of the President and with the assistance coming from friendly states, we will be able to achieve... a credible territorial defense,” Galvez said.

The US-based Center for a New American Security (CNAS) has said that the Philippines needs up to four squadrons (48) of upgraded Lockheed Martin F-16 fighter jets, well-armed frigates and corvette-size, fast to surface combatant vessels and minesweepers and four to six mini submarines, possibly obtained from Russia, to build a credible defense force in the face of China’s increasing belligerence in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea).

DND Eyes Second-Hand Jets, Gunboats from Four Countries apart from US

In an article “Defending the Philippines: Military modernization and the challenges ahead” written by Richard Fisher, CNAS pointed out that this level of capability would far exceed current Philippine planning and finances and it would be in Washington’s interest to make it easier for Manila to acquire US fighters, frigates and other weapons system and encourage other countries such as Japan and South Korea to help modernize the Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP).

The Philippine Air Force is presently relying on a single trainer jet converted into a fighter aircraft as well as several units of Vietnam-vintage OV-10 Bronco bombers, UH-IH and M520 attack helicopters as well as four newly delivered Sokol helicopters from Poland to guard the country’s skies.

The Navy, aside from several Peacock-class warships and a couple of World War II-vintage ships, simply relies on its newly acquired Hamilton-class cutter from the US, BRP Gregorio del Pilar, to secure maritime domain.

The country, through the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) and absent a credible territorial defense, could only watch China lording it over Panatag Shoal, a rich Filipino fishing ground 124 nautical miles from Zambales province.

http://defense-studies.blogspot.co.uk/2012...boats-from.html

http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?artic...ubCategoryId=63

icefrog

May 8 2012, 09:23 PM

spearhead

May 8 2012, 04:50 AM

InkognitoAce

May 7 2012, 10:43 PM

If we are shopping for MRFs, I sill think it would be wise to buy "normal" fighters (F-16s or FA-50s) that would be cheaper to operate and which we could buy in larger numbers, while at the same time having a smaller fleet of really advanced air-superiority fighters so we can push back any aerial intrusions from neighbouring air-forces (e.g.: Su-30/Su-35, Eurofighter Typhoon, F-15).
This way, we can use the cheaper jets to conduct patrols and other such things, but use the more advanced ones when things really get serious.

Thats actually the ideal concept of establishing our Fighter Wing.

We need to keep atleast 1 squadron made of the latest 5th generation fighters, but for now it seems unaffordable unless if the philippines would forget about building their economy first, like the various infrastructures to support it.

If only they can afford a 48 units of MRF, perhaps they can reduce the numbers to 24 4th generation fighters instead, then around 6-12 units of 5th generation MRF, depending on the budget allocations.

US 5th gen planes are out of reach. The only 5th gen plane we could possible afford is India/Russia's PAK-FA if current estimates holds true of it's cost.

fernandez705

May 10 2012, 04:49 AM

DND eyes second-hand jets, gunboats from other countries

The DND is eyeing second-hand fighter jets and missile-firing gunboats from at least four states apart from the US, there are France, Italy, the United Kingdom and South Korea. (photo : enemyforces)

MANILA, Philippines - The Department of National Defense (DND) is eyeing second-hand fighter jets and missile-firing gunboats from at least four friendly states apart from the United States in line with the country’s ongoing effort to build a credible territorial defense.

According to Peter Paul Galvez, DND spokesman, there are now ongoing acquisition efforts for these air and sea fighting equipment from France, Italy, the United Kingdom and South Korea.

“We now have this defense cooperative arrangements with these countries and through this scheme we will able to acquire fighter jets and gunboats at a lower price from them,” Galvez said yesterday.

Among the factors being considered by the department in its defense procurement program are the capability, longevity and cost of maintenance of these air and naval assets.

Now locked in a standoff with China over Panatag Shoal in Zambales, the country was earlier reported to be eyeing the procurement of a squadron of second-hand F-16 fighter planes and gunboats from the US Coast Guard.

“It’s not necessarily F-16s. We are also looking at jetfighters with the same capability as that of the F-16s but are cost-efficient and low in maintenance,” he said.

He added the acquisition program would also cover the Navy, which is awaiting transfer of the Hamilton-class cutter USS Dallas later this year.

The defense acquisition program is among 132 projects the department is eyeing to complete before the end of July.

“With the full backing of the President and with the assistance coming from friendly states, we will be able to achieve... a credible territorial defense,” Galvez said.

The US-based Center for a New American Security (CNAS) has said that the Philippines needs up to four squadrons (48) of upgraded Lockheed Martin F-16 fighter jets, well-armed frigates and corvette-size, fast to surface combatant vessels and minesweepers and four to six mini submarines, possibly obtained from Russia, to build a credible defense force in the face of China’s increasing belligerence in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea).

DND Eyes Second-Hand Jets, Gunboats from Four Countries apart from US

In an article “Defending the Philippines: Military modernization and the challenges ahead” written by Richard Fisher, CNAS pointed out that this level of capability would far exceed current Philippine planning and finances and it would be in Washington’s interest to make it easier for Manila to acquire US fighters, frigates and other weapons system and encourage other countries such as Japan and South Korea to help modernize the Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP).

The Philippine Air Force is presently relying on a single trainer jet converted into a fighter aircraft as well as several units of Vietnam-vintage OV-10 Bronco bombers, UH-IH and M520 attack helicopters as well as four newly delivered Sokol helicopters from Poland to guard the country’s skies.

The Navy, aside from several Peacock-class warships and a couple of World War II-vintage ships, simply relies on its newly acquired Hamilton-class cutter from the US, BRP Gregorio del Pilar, to secure maritime domain.

The country, through the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) and absent a credible territorial defense, could only watch China lording it over Panatag Shoal, a rich Filipino fishing ground 124 nautical miles from Zambales province.

http://defense-studies.blogspot.co.uk/2012...boats-from.html

http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?artic...ubCategoryId=63

Furbolling

May 10 2012, 08:55 AM

icefrog

May 8 2012, 09:23 PM

spearhead

May 8 2012, 04:50 AM

InkognitoAce

May 7 2012, 10:43 PM

If we are shopping for MRFs, I sill think it would be wise to buy "normal" fighters (F-16s or FA-50s) that would be cheaper to operate and which we could buy in larger numbers, while at the same time having a smaller fleet of really advanced air-superiority fighters so we can push back any aerial intrusions from neighbouring air-forces (e.g.: Su-30/Su-35, Eurofighter Typhoon, F-15).
This way, we can use the cheaper jets to conduct patrols and other such things, but use the more advanced ones when things really get serious.

Thats actually the ideal concept of establishing our Fighter Wing.

We need to keep atleast 1 squadron made of the latest 5th generation fighters, but for now it seems unaffordable unless if the philippines would forget about building their economy first, like the various infrastructures to support it.

If only they can afford a 48 units of MRF, perhaps they can reduce the numbers to 24 4th generation fighters instead, then around 6-12 units of 5th generation MRF, depending on the budget allocations.

US 5th gen planes are out of reach. The only 5th gen plane we could possible afford is India/Russia's PAK-FA if current estimates holds true of it's cost.

i don't think the Pak-Fa will cost less $120 million(aircraft only) because of the fact the SU-37 is said to cost $147 million each(aircraft only) according to what info i've read. PAK-FA is a generation ahead just like the F-22 and F-35.