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| DND to monitor No. Korea rocket launch | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 22 2012, 03:42 AM (6,811 Views) | |
| flipzi | Apr 10 2012, 11:57 PM Post #101 |
R-A-T-S
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Here's the issue. IS THAT REALLY A WEATHER SATELLITE? - Nokor is an ally of China. - They payload has been told as a weather satellite but it can be a SPY SATELLITE aimed the Philippines to monitor the movements of RP and US forces. Why the hell they need to send a weather satellite far from their area of responsibility anyway? They can simply get the same data from other weather satellites as well. So, is there a need to put their weather satellite in the Philippines when their country is very far from this region? China is working behind the scenes here. There is a probability that the satellite was place atop our archipelago to monitor the US forces and ours. That spy satellite may have the capability to map our entire archipelago and use that for China's advantage. Another thing is that Nokor is putting the lives of many Filipinos in danger with the rocket debris falling on us. They should instead move the path farther out into the Pacific. Nokor should not be allowed to abuse our compassion. If we allow Nokor to fly that close, they go in closer next time. They are testing our reaction. We should shoot down the satellite to protect our people. Who gives a sh-i-t about Nokor anyway if they are behaving like this? Let's send our best troops and help the US vaporize these arrogant pig. |
 " Sovereignty resides in the people and all government authority emanates from them! - Art. II Sec 1, Philippine Constitution " " People don't care what we know until they know we care. " getflipzi@yahoo.com | |
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| icefrog | Apr 11 2012, 01:31 AM Post #102 |
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^ I would love the Philippines to shoot it down but shoot it down with what? Unless the 2 Antonovs that arrived in the Philippines a couple of months ago really contained S-300s instead of the alleged relief goods then we are mere spectators and dependent on SK, Japan, Taiwan and US to shoot it down. |
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| omen | Apr 11 2012, 05:08 AM Post #103 |
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nadale mo sir |
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| pachador | Apr 11 2012, 06:22 AM Post #104 |
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it will be a blessing in disguise for the AFP if the north korean rocket debris hits luzon preferably the congress building so the congressmen will finally come to their senses, and allocate more money for the defense budget. Responses of countries to the North korean rocket launch: US to North Korea: Don’t do it! Japan to North Korea: We will intercept it! South Korea to North Korea: We will shoot it down! China to North Korea: Don’t stray in our skies or else! Philippines on NoKor rocket: Ilag, ilag na lang! from philstar |
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| paratorpe | Apr 11 2012, 08:12 AM Post #105 |
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There are a lot of ways to shoot it down, This will be a good exercise for them to see if their theory works, one is to use an extended 2 piece rocket for pac-3 to extend its range and another is a pac-3 (ALHTK) air launched hit to kill. The ICBM may be 20+mach speed or so, but all they need to know is the trajectory course and they can fire in advance the pac-3 rocket and go for a head on collision course and not chase it or just block its course and let the 20+ mach speed rocket collide it on its own. They could also test the laser weapons on board a plane they have if that really existed. |
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Modernization should prioritize: Patrol Ships with air/sub/ship detection, fast & lightly armed for Navy. Surface Attack Aircraft with anti ship/sub attack capability for Airforce. SAM with Radars, Close AA battery capable of shooting ground targets too for Army. This triangle defense will work together and protect us from external threats. | |
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| spearhead | Apr 11 2012, 08:25 AM Post #106 |
DoctorNO, Your Neutral Observer.
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Perhaps he's still believing that those are not really some type of ICBM warheads falling to philippine islands. The US and our other allies must have already advised him that the rocket may in fact not a threat or real ICBM weapons. They known this for sure, what's that rocket really is. So some other sort of possibilities are that its all for politic's sake, they would protest and make it sound as if the nokor's are really trying to launch some ICBM. Therefore just in case, they deployed all their PAC-3's and all other anti-ballistic weapons. But if i am wrong, then it was just a typical leader's error in part of PNoy for not delivering some effective reactions and solutions to show how serious the government really is to protect our territories. Just as how he lacks the political will to fasten their planned acquisition of advance weapons (missiles/MRF/missile corvettes) to upgrade their military. Just my 2cents. |
"Men of War must learn the art of numbers or he will not know how to array his troops." - Plato  
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| spearhead | Apr 11 2012, 09:01 AM Post #107 |
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DoctorNO, Your Neutral Observer.
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The thing is, we the public doesnt really know whats goin on behind the backstage of this politics. What if the rockets are real satellites? See the nokors love to bluff too and scare off the americans while blackmailing them so they could get more relief goods. And it just happened that there are some serious issues going on at WPS, and china-nokor are allies. Last year, there was already some type of a chinese satellite ship (YUAN WANG CLASS TRACKING SHIP) already stationed, anchored around davao or zamboanga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuan_Wang_class_tracking_ship
But the NOKOR missile is not yet considered as an ICBM, rather the rocket test is a prelude to ICBM capability, even if it was just a satellite armed rocket (if indeed it was a true claim by nokor). That is also why PAC-2 and PAC-3 have multiple missiles inside the canisters, and they automatically launch the next missile or secondary missile 4.2 sec in between to hit the second or other following warheads with the same manner as the first patriot missile, and so on. In short, the system doesnt shoot only 1 missile, therefore this may also be the reason why our allies are using their PAC-3 to shoot it down otherwise what else they gonna use? The Patriots are not ready yet for any airborne lauch, still being upgraded as stated from the 2 links i saw. This one though is from wiki, same thing have mentioned: Following is the process a PAC-2 firing battery uses to engage a single target (an aircraft) with a single missile: 1. A hostile aircraft is detected by the AN/MPQ-65 Radar. The radar examines the track's size, speed, altitude, and heading, and decides whether or not it is a legitimate track or "clutter" created by RF interference. 2. If the track is classified by the radar as an aircraft, in the AN/MSQ-104 Engagement Control Station, an unidentified track appears on the screen of the Patriot operators. The operators examine the speed, altitude and heading of the track. Additionally, the IFF subsystem "pings" the track to determine if it has any IFF response. 3. Based on many factors, including the track's speed, altitude, heading, IFF response, or its presence in "safe passage corridors" or "missile engagement zones", the ECS operator, the TCO (tactical control officer), makes an ID recommendation to the ICC operator, the TD (tactical director). 4. The TD examines the track and decides to certify that it is hostile. Typically, the engagement authority for Patriot units rests with the Regional or Sector Air Defense Commander (RADC/SADC), who will be located either on a US Navy guided missile cruiser or on a USAF AWACS aircraft. A Patriot operator (called the "ADAFCO" or Air Defense Artillery Fire Control Officer) is colocated with the RADC/SADC to facilitate communication to the Patriot battalions. 5. The TD contacts the ADAFCO and correlates the track, ensuring that it is not a friendly aircraft. 6. The ADAFCO obtains the engagement command from RADC/SADC, and delegates the engagement back down to the Patriot battalion. 7. Once the engagement command is received, the TD selects a firing battery to take the shot and orders them to engage. 8. The TCO instructs the TCA to engage the track. The TCA brings the system's launchers from "standby" into "operate". 9. The TCA presses the "engage" switch indicator. This sends a signal to the selected launcher and fires a missile selected automatically by the system. 10. The AN/MPQ-65 Radar, which has been continuously tracking the hostile aircraft, "acquires" the just-fired missile and begins feeding it interception data. The Radar also "illuminates" the target for the missile's semi-active radar seeker. 11. The monopulse receiver in the missile's nose receives the reflection of illumination energy from the target. The track-via-missile uplink sends this data through an antenna in the missile's tail back to the AN/MPQ-65 set. In the ECS, computers calculate the maneuvers that the missile should perform in order to maintain a trajectory to the target and the TVM uplink sends these to the missile. 12. Once in the vicinity of the target, the missile detonates its proximity fused warhead. Following is the process a PAC-3 firing battery uses to engage a single tactical ballistic missile with two PAC-3 missiles: 1. A missile is detected by the AN/MPQ-65 radar. The radar reviews the speed, altitude, behavior, and radar cross section of the target. If this data lines up with the discrimination parameters set into the system, the missile is presented on the screen of the operator as a ballistic missile target. 2. In the AN/MSQ-104 Engagement Control Station, the TCO reviews the speed, altitude, and trajectory of the track and then authorizes engagement. Upon authorizing engagement, the TCO instructs his TCA to bring the system's launchers into "operate" mode from "standby" mode. The engagement will take place automatically at the moment the computer defines the parameters that ensure the highest probability of kill. 3. The system computer determines which of the battery's launchers have the highest probability of kill and selects them to fire. Two missiles are launched 4.2 seconds apart in a "ripple". 4. The AN/MPQ-65 radar continues tracking the target and uploads intercept information to the PAC-3 missiles which are now outbound to intercept. 5. Upon reaching its terminal homing phase, the Ka band active radar seeker in the nose of the PAC-3 missile acquires the inbound ballistic missile. This radar selects the radar return most likely to be the warhead of the incoming missile and directs the interceptor towards it. 6. The ACMs (attitude control motors) of the PAC-3 missile fire to precisely align the missile on the interception trajectory. 7. The interceptor flies straight through the warhead of the inbound ballistic missile, detonating it and destroying the missile. 8. The second missile locates any debris which may be a warhead and attacks in a similar manner. FIRST SOURCE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-104_Patri...04F_.28PAC-3.29 2ND SOURCE: http://www.army-technology.com/projects/patriot/ |
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"Men of War must learn the art of numbers or he will not know how to array his troops." - Plato
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| arvcab | Apr 11 2012, 09:51 AM Post #108 |
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Worst case scenario: Evacuation in Luzon http://ph.news.yahoo.com/worst-case-scenar...-201715257.html MANILA, Philippines - Cities and towns across Luzon – including Metro Manila – are on standby for possible evacuation in case a rocket launch being readied by North Korea goes awry and rains debris on the Philippines. “All local government units in Luzon were asked to come up with plans in the event that the debris falls in their area of jurisdiction. These include identifying food assistance, evacuation and medical contingency,” said Allan Tabell, a director of the Department of the Interior and Local Government (DILG) and liaison to the National Disaster Risk Reduction and Management Council (NDRRMC). “(DILG) Secretary (Jesse) Robredo has ordered all governors and mayors in northeastern Luzon including Bicol to prepare contingency plans. We are talking about practically the entire Luzon,” Tabell said in a press briefing yesterday. “There’s a possibility of mass casualty,” the DILG official said. “If it (debris) falls on a populated area, there is a possibility of suffering casualties. That is what we are preparing for. Walang kapalit ang paghahanda (There’s no substitute for preparedness),” he added. Tabell could not tell how many evacuation centers would be set up. He nevertheless said it is presumed that each town or city has at least one evacuation center. There are about 400 municipalities and cities in Luzon. NDRRMC executive director Benito Ramos said it would be up to the local governments to decide whether to conduct preemptive evacuation. Ramos said even local governments in Metro Manila should come up with contingency measures. Ramos said there is a “hairline difference” between Metro Manila and Polilio Island in Quezon, which is near the rocket’s path. “The 150 nautical miles east of Polilio Island is adjacent to Metro Manila. There is a hairline difference. I’m not discounting the possibility (that the debris will hit Metro Manila),” he said. Earlier, North Korea bared plans to launch a rocket – purportedly to place a satellite in orbit – sometime on April 12 to 16. The rocket is scheduled to be launched at 6 a.m. to 11 p.m. (Philippine time). The launch was also part of the celebration of the 100th birth anniversary of North Korea’s founding president Kim Il-Sung, which falls on April 15. The United States and other countries suspect that the launch is a disguised long-range missile test – a violation of the ban imposed by the United Nations. The initial stage of North Korea’s latest rocket is expected to fall about 140 kilometers off South Korea’s west coast, in international waters between China and South Korea. The second stage is expected to splash down 190 kilometers east of northern Philippines. Tabell said state scientists have drawn three possible scenarios on the rocket launch. Under the first scenario, the entire solid metal booster of the rocket would crash on earth or in the sea. Another scenario is that the metal booster would break into pieces due to friction. Under the third scenario, the booster would disintegrate totally. “The best scenario is for launch not to take place,” Tabell said. Ramos said 50,000 soldiers from the Armed Forces’ Northern Luzon Command and Southern Luzon Command are ready to assist in emergency situations. He said military reservists and non-government organizations are also ready to provide assistance. The areas that may be affected include Buguey, Gonzaga, Santa Ana of Cagayan; Palanan, Maconacon, Divilacan, Dinapigue; Casiguran, Dilasag, Dinalungan, Baler, and Dingalan in Aurora; Real, Infanta, Nakar in Quezon, Camarines Norte and Camarines Sur. The government will implement a “no-fly zone” over areas along the likely path of North Korea’s rocket from April 12 to 16. About 100 international flights to and from Japan and South Korea will be affected by the declaration. The NDRRMC will also enforce a “no sail zone” and “no fishing zone” in waters below the likely path of the rocket. The areas covered by the declaration are Cagayan, Isabela, Aurora, Quezon, Camarines Norte, Camarines Sur and Catanduanes. Ramos also lashed out at critics of government’s contingency measures. “It is better called OA than ‘No A’ or no acting,” he said. Ramos said he had experienced losing soldiers due to human errors when he was still in the military. Ramos is a former commander of the Army’s Special Operations Command. “If you have not experienced losing men, you won’t understand me,” Ramos said, referring to his critics. “If I do something, you will blame me. If I don’t do anything, you will blame me. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t,” he added. Robredo called on governors, mayors and other local officials to make sure people and properties are safe from possible debris from North Korea’s rocket. “Considering that the debris of the missile test might fall in Philippine territory, you are hereby directed to take all precautionary measures to prevent loss of lives and property,” said Robredo in a directive to concerned local officials of Regions I, II, III , IV-A, V, and the Cordillera Administrative Region (CAR). The Department of Foreign Affairs said it will continue to voice the country’s objection to North Korea’s rocket launch even as Malacañang stressed that powerful nations belonging to the six-party talks could best handle the problem. “We have always maintained that the six-party talks is the most effective means of addressing the North Korea issue. So we agree with Senate President Juan Ponce Enrile,” presidential spokesman Edwin Lacierda said in a press briefing. He said a no-fly zone had been imposed on some areas “because there’s a sliver of sea where the debris is likely to fall, so that’s being anticipated. “But as (the President) has mentioned, the only time that we will be able to determine is once it is launched,” Lacierda said. “The DFA and our embassies have strongly articulated to DPRK officials the Philippines’ objection to the launch, which DPRK embassies took note of and reported to Pyongyang,” Foreign Affairs spokesperson Raul Hernandez said. Science Secretary Mario Montejo, for his part, urged the public to remain calm, saying “there’s a remote chance harmful debris from the rocket will hit us.” “I also can’t see why the North Koreans would load dangerous chemicals unto the rocket - they said this was designed to carry a satellite” he said over dzRH. Overreaction? Lawmakers called on the public yesterday to remain calm even as they scored government disaster officials for “panic mongering.” “We ask the public to stay calm. Dr. Alumanda de la Rosa of the Philippine Nuclear Research Institute of the Department of Science and Technology (DOST-PNRI) said they have not gathered any information the tests will involve any radioactive material,” Agham party-list Rep. Angelo Palmones said in a statement. He said the PNRI, as part of its mandate, is monitoring gamma radiation in the air daily. “If ever debris fall in the country, we advise the public not to panic. Know what could be done to protect yourself, and your family in case of danger or possible threat. If it is radioactive the shorter the time of exposure and the farther you stay away from it, the lesser the dose of radiation you can get,” he said. ACT Teachers party-list Rep. Antonio Tinio also criticized the government’s disaster management agencies for “sowing unwarranted fear and panic among the public.” Tinio cited an advisory issued by the NDRRMC entitled “NDRRMC Update: Suspected DPRK Long-Range Ballistic Missile Test, ca [sic] April 12-16, 2012.” “The NDRRMC report is riddled with politically-charged rhetoric, irresponsible generalizations, and absurd recommendations that grossly exaggerate any danger posed by the North Korean rocket. They are spreading misinformation and sowing fear among the public. It’s outrageous and unacceptable,” Tinio said. “The North Koreans are launching a satellite on that rocket, not a nuclear warhead. Yet Ramos even refers to it as an Intercontinental Ballistic Missile or ICBM, evoking the doomsday weapon of the Cold War. Such exaggerated language is totally inappropriate coming from a bureaucrat in charge of ensuring public order and safety. Leave the rhetoric to the diplomats and politicians,” he said. “So why ask the whole population of Luzon to stay indoors? It’s totally out of proportion to the danger posed by the rocket debris, which is expected to fall in Philippine waters some 200 kilometers east of Luzon. Why is this government asking nearly 50 percent of the population to cower under their roofs when the splashdown will take place far from Philippine soil?” Tinio said. Even Sorsogon Bishop Arturo Bastes downplayed the rocket launch’s potential threat. “Tell the people not to panic. Many times such fears are unfounded. Remember the Skylab many years ago? Nothing fell.” He was referring to the first experimental space station of the United States, which careened out of control and fell back to earth in 1979 harmlessly scattering debris across the Indian Ocean and West Australia. “Pray that the leaders of North Korea would rather feed their hungry people than show a false military might,” he said. Manila Auxiliary Bishop Broderick Pabillo also appealed for prayers. “We should pray that North Korea would not push through with its plan because we do not know the damages that we might suffer. We do not even know if Japan or the United States would shoot it down, if they would bring down any rocket that would be launched,” Pabillo said. “We do not know where it would fall and that is why we should exercise caution and we should pray that this crisis would not happen to the world,” he added. US hype? The militant Bagong Alyansang Makabayan (Bayan) accused the government of overreacting to the planned rocket launch, saying it was blindly joining the US in hyping a supposed threat of nuclear fallout from the rocket launch. “While safety precautions against rocket debris are ok, the reaction of the Philippine government is more in line with the hype being stirred by the US in relation to so-called ballistic missile tests that the North Koreans are allegedly undertaking,” Bayan secretary-general Renato Reyes said. “The US is trying to deny North Korea’s sovereign right to launch a satellite for peaceful use by hypocritically using the specter of nuclear weapons,” Reyes said. “Fact of the matter is, North Korea has said over and over again that the rocket launch is for peaceful scientific use. It has even invited foreign journalists and observers to witness the launch and scrutinize the rocket,” he added. Bayan said the US remains the world’s biggest nuclear threat since it possesses some 5,100 nuclear warheads strategically placed all over the world in its nuclear submarines and military bases. In contrast, North Korea has suspended its nuclear weapons test and uranium enrichment program and allowed international inspectors to monitor activities at its main nuclear complex. “The nuke bogey is just the latest US ploy to justify sanctions and military intervention against North Korea. It’s the US which has long been threatening North Korea. Meanwhile, North Korea does not pose a threat to the Philippines or any nation in Asia for that matter. North Korea has always aspired for peaceful reunification with South Korea and for the complete denuclearization of the Korean peninsula,” Reyes said. “The US on the other hand, has always sought to establish its military presence everywhere in the world, acting as some kind of global police. It is now seeking to expand its permanent military presence in the Philippines.” The group also called the Philippine government’s posturing versus North Korea hypocritical. “The PH government is up in arms over North Korea’s rocket test, but is eerily silent about the use of US drones in Philippine airspace. The PH government has not even sought any explanation for the US government’s secret storage of nuclear weapons in the Philippines during the last century,” Reyes said. Bayan likewise noted that based on a declassified document from the independent non-governmental organization National Security Archive based in the George Washington University, the US government had secretly stored nuclear weapons in the Philippines during the Marcos regime. - With Paolo Romero, Cecille Suerte Felipe, Rudy Santos, Aurea Calica, Helen Flores, Rhodina Villanueva, Evelyn Macairan - By Alexis Romero (Philstar News Service, www.philstar.com) |
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| horizon | Apr 11 2012, 10:37 AM Post #109 |
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the s300, like the patriot is, is an anti tactical ballistic missile system:
for strategic missile defense - anti ICBMs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missile_defense though the s300 & patriot would still be very effective in destroying the separated first & second stages if in case these strays into the territories of japan and south korea |
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| Wardog | Apr 11 2012, 05:54 PM Post #110 |
'waggin my tail :-)
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Of course, the PAC-3 is a hit-to-kill weapon designed to collide with an incoming ballistic missile to destroy it, but only against tactical ballistic missiles, even the extended range variant will only have some degree of capability against theater ballistic missiles, not against ICBMs or its warheads: http://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/usmissiledefense Patriot Advanced Capability-3 (PAC-3) PAC-3 is designed to defend against short- and medium-range ballistic missiles in their terminal stage at lower altitudes than the THAAD system. During earlier developmental testing, the system struck nine out of 10 targets. More challenging operational tests between February and May 2002 involved multiple interceptors and targets. Seven PAC-3s were to be fired at five targets; of the seven, two destroyed their targets, one hit but did not destroy its target, one missed its target, and three others did not launch. PAC-3s destroyed two Iraqi short-range ballistic missiles during the 2003 conflict and shot down a U.S. fighter jet. Earlier Patriot models also deployed to the region shot down nine Iraqi missiles and a British combat aircraft.
The Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense uses the SM-3 missile which is: (from the same link above) Initially, the Aegis BMD is geared toward defending against short-, medium-, and intermediate-range ballistic missiles during their midcourse phase with an emphasis on the ascent stage. The Aegis system is capable of tracking ICBMs, but is not yet configured to intercept them. The current SM-3 Block I is considered too slow to intercept a strategic ballistic missile. A faster SM-3 is being developed that is intended to have some capability to intercept ICBMs. The upgraded SM-3, known as the Block IIB, is not expected until 2020. Japan has to wait 9 years for a realistic chance to shoot down North Korea's rockets or ICBMs.
Whether the NoKor rocket is carrying a satellite or a dummy test warhead is not the issue. The issue is the rocket system launching the satellite into space is not that much different from the rocket system that launches intercontinental warheads. This is why the US,SoKor, Japan et al are vehemently against NoKor satellite launches because all the same its scientists and weapon engineers will still learn a lot from it to apply to its ICBM development. |
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Anyone who comes to a counter-insurgency thinking it`s about killing terrorists is missing the boat. It`s really about winning the people. You can kill all the terrorists but then you`ve pissed people off and created 100 more. -Col. Bradley Becker | |
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