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BRP Ramon Alcaraz (PF-16); ex USCGC Dallas (WHEC-716)
Topic Started: Oct 19 2011, 02:36 PM (462,118 Views)

my reading is that the 5 million is just the first phase which includes the 25mm. the 2nd phase will include the harpoons.

just like the jacinto class upgrades which went through 3 phases although only 1 of the 3 phases involved a weapons upgrade(the 25mm MSI)
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I am actually sceptical about the US selling us Harpoons, if it can be used to counter China's claims in the WPS. China is still the US' main source of credit, owing more than $1 trillion. The Chinese basically have the US economy in their pockets. The US will sell us weapons enough to stop poachers and smugglers, but not to counter Chinese Navy intrusion.

If ever the US will sell us missiles for the WHECs it will probably be those Standard Missiles for SAM capability, but limited anti-ship role.
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DoctorNO, Your Neutral Observer.
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^^But what's the use of holding back the Harpoons for sale to the philippines knowing that the philippines are actually acquiring 2 missile frigates from italy? It shouldn't matter like that because the US could easily sell their military equipments indirectly to the philippines, or encourage other allies to sell us more advance weapons such as this missile system.
"Men of War must learn the art of numbers or he will not know how to array his troops." - Plato

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please do not believe the news articles that the U.S. is at the mercy of china because of debt. these news articles were written by reporters with no credible background in economics/finance and national strategy.

most of the chinese holdings of US debt are actually american treasury notes such as bonds or property holdings... in the remote possibility that china will call in their US treasury holdings on a massive scale, that would be a declaration of war, and when that happens , all the US has to do is cancel the debt. the amerikanos have done that before when they went to war, they seized the assets such as treasury holdings, property investments of Germany, Japan, Iran, Libya ,etc. the amerikanos are not # 1 for nothing, they are a lot smarter and know whats up.

secondly, if china becomes hostile, the US can shut down chinese imports into the US and the chinese export economy will collapse. Again, the amerikanos are just quiet and know when to use their economic weapons.

Aside from the more aggressive american economic strategic weapons, here are other "peaceful" articles that bust the american debt myth:





as for the harpoons, the simple reason we never have harpoons is we do not have the money to buy harpoons. it is a myth that the americans will not sell us certain weapons. Those filipino officials who complained in the past that the americans do not give us the weapons we want , actually mean, that, the americans do not give us "free" or libre na kagamitan na mamahalin.
Edited by pachador, Oct 14 2012, 03:49 AM.
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Glad you pointed that out pachador.

I literally facepalm myself everything someone says China owns US in terms of debt.
The vice president Biden have openly stated in front of the Chinese media that the 85% of the debt is in American hands, not China's.

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if the US want's to cancel their debt to China they can do that specially if China try to make war on them.

If I remember correctly the US actually did this before cancelling their debt to other countries once a shooting war started(France or GB? in the 18th Century and 19th century).

and USSR itself didn't pay the Billion's of dollar of debt to the US that they gain in WWII through Lend-Lease Act because the two countries is in Cold War back then.

and according to this

One reason the United States would want to avoid defaulting on its debt is that such a move could alienate China, which is a steady purchaser of Treasury bonds. Beijing, meanwhile, already has too much invested in American debt to do much more but continue to buy, hold and grumble.

It is the ultimate “too big to fail” global relationship, said Andy Rothman, an analyst in Shanghai for the investment bank CLSA.

If Beijing even hinted that it might try to sell part of its American debt, “other countries might sell their dollar assets,” Mr. Rothman said, noting that this would drive down the value of China’s holdings. “It would be financial suicide for China.”

New York Times

So I see the US selling us their Harpoon(they can sell a lot of weapon to Taiwan and other not a good allies countries(Pakistan ) so I don't see them cancelling it). It will all boils down to if we have the money to buy it

and as what Sir Uruzu said 75-85% of US debt is at the hand of it's people
Edited by Furbolling, Oct 14 2012, 11:25 AM.
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"Brothers!! What we do in life, Echoes through Eternity"
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PH gets guns for US-supplied ships

by Rodney Jaleco, ABS-CBN North America News Bureau
Posted at 10/15/2012 11:02 AM | Updated as of 10/15/2012 11:04 AM

WASHINGTON D.C. - The Philippine Navy will get newer and more powerful guns that could augment weapons for two patrol ships acquired recently from the United States.

The Pentagon recently awarded a $24 million contract to Kentucky-based BAE Systems Land and Armaments for 21 Mark 38 Mod 2 chain guns for the US and Philippines navies.

The Philippines is procuring the guns under the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) program, a US Navy statement revealed.

The Philippine Navy acquired the 1st of two Hamilton-class all-weather patrol ships from the US Coast Guard last year. She was re-christened the BRP Gregorio del Pilar and is the spearhead of the country’s presence in the disputed Spratly Islands and Scarborough Shoal.

The US had stripped the ship of her more sophisticated weapons before turning her over. The Mk 38 Mod 2 gun is an improved version of the 25mm Bushmaster that was taken off the BRP Del Pilar.

A 2nd Hamilton-class cutter was turned over to the Philippine Navy last May (re-christened as the BRP Ramon Alcaraz). She is being refurbished and her scheduled arrival in Manila has been delayed to sometime early next year.

Another Hamilton-class cutter was retired in San Diego, California this month. A reliable source said the Philippines was seeing if it could get her as well.

The Mk 38 Mod 2 fires 180 rounds of 25mm projectiles per minute. Its 4-axis stabilized electro-optical sensor provides round-the-clock surveillance capability.

BAE Systems developed the gun with Rafael Armaments of Israel which manufactures the “Typhoon” stabilized marine gun system. The US Navy intensified procurement after the attack on the destroyer USS Cole. They plan to have the remote-controlled guns installed on most of its warships by 2015.

Navy officials say the guns provide improved protection against small threats close aboard and even help crews with more mundane tasks, such as finding channel buoys.

The brochure boasts that “Line-of-fire stabilization enables the crew to effectively engage target in great precision from safe stand-off distance and rough sea conditions.” Operators can follow and fire at a target automatically using electro-optical and infrared sensors and a computer-integrated laser range finder.

If the sensors are disabled, gunner’s mates can manually aim and fire the gun. It has built-in batteries that allow it to operate for 2 hours even after the whole ship loses power.
Edited by matrix, Oct 15 2012, 01:19 PM.
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metro aide sweeper

"The embassy said the purchase and installation of two Mk38 Mod 2 autocanon systems for the Alcaraz is part of a $24-million contract the Pentagon recently awarded to the Kentucky-based BAE Systems Land and Armaments Inc."


so, the 2 autocannons are meant just for alcaraz. wow! :armycheers:
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US to deliver battle-ready 2nd Hamilton-class cutter


The United States is supplying the Philippines with a battle-ready second cutter with a $1.8-million advanced weapons system as part of the foreign military sales program amid a still tense relations between the Philippines and China over both’s conflicting territorial claims.
The Pentagon, where the United States Department of National Defense is headquartered, has awarded a $1.8 million contract for the purchase of modern weapons systems that would be installed in the BRP Ramon Alcaraz (PF16), the second high-endurance cutter that the Philippines recently acquired from the United States, according to a statement from the Philippine Embassy in Washington.
The statement said the purchase and installation of two Mk38 Mod 2 autocanon systems for the Alcaraz is part of a $24-million contract the Pentagon recently awarded to the Kentucky-based BAE Systems Land and Armaments Inc.
Capt. Elson Aguilar, naval attache at the Office of the Defense and Armed Forces Attache at the Philippine Embassy, said the BAE contract involves the purchase of 21 units of the remotely controlled naval gun systems and spare parts for both the US and Philippine navies.
He said the contract, which is covered under the Foreign Military Sales Program, does not include the weapons system for the sister ship of the Alcaraz, the BRP Gregorio del Pilar (PF15), which will be covered under a separate contract.
The Mk38 Mod 2, which was commissioned by the US Navy following the terrorist attack on the USS Cole in 2000, was designed to counter high-speed maneuvering surface targets and will be installed in almost all US surface ships by 2015.
The new weapon systems are upgraded versions of the Mk38 M242 Bushmasters that were removed from the vessel prior to its turnover to the Philippines. The remotely controlled chain gun system can fire as many as 180 25m rounds per minute at targets as far as two kilometers.
“The Mk38 Mod 2 will allow the Alcaraz and the Del Pilar to track and fire at targets automatically in both day and night using single shot, low speed or high-speed automatic fire,” Captain Aguilar said, adding that the autocanon can be fired manually if the sensors are damaged or if the vessels lose power.
He said the two Mk38 Mod 2 systems that will be mounted in the Alcaraz and the Del Pilar will complement the existing weapons systems that consist of the MK75 76mm Oto Melara main battery and four M2HB .50 caliber machine guns.
Aguilar said the vessel is awaiting the general overhaul of her port main diesel engine and further installation of navigational and electronics equipment.
“The overhaul will take at least 11 weeks once it gets started,” Captain Aguilar said, adding that the vessel’s 14 officers and 74 enlisted personnel headed by Capt. Ernesto Baldovino continue to train under the US Coast Guard at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Charleston, South Carolina where the vessel is currently moored.
The 378-foot-long Alcaraz was commissioned in 1968 and served with the US Coast Guard as the USCGC Dallas until it was decommissioned and turned over to the Philippines in May. It is being refurbished and refitted at a cost of $15.15 million.
The Alcaraz is the second Hamilton-class cutter that was acquired by the Philippines under the Excess Defense Article and Military Assistance Program. The first, the Del Pilar, was turned over to the Philippine Navy in May 2011.
The Philippines’ Department of National Defense (DND) spokesman Peter Paul Galvez had said the United States government will assist in making the he two Hamilton-class cutters more capable in carrying out their maritime and territorial defense mandate.
“We are very thankful for the US Navy for this assistance as it will make our ships more capable in carrying out its duties,” the DND spokesperson said of the US Navy assistance.
However, Galvez also hopes that the Americans will provide more potent and state-of-the-art weapon systems to the PN.
“We are also hoping that they will return some of the equipment they removed from these ships before they turned it over to us,” he emphasized.
Hamilton-class cutters have a displacement of 3,250 tons, a length of 378 feet, beam of 43 feet, and draft of 15 feet.
Its propulsion systems consist of two diesel engines and two gas turbine engines, giving it a top speed of 29 knots.
The ship has cruising range of 14,000 miles and has a sea and loiter time of 45 days. It has a complement of 167 officers and men.
The ship was originally equipped with an AN/SPS-40 air-search radar Mark 92 Fire Control System and armed with one Oto Melara Mark-75 76mm gun, Two Mark K-38 25mm machine gun system, two Mark 36 SRBOC systems, one Phalanx CIWS missile defense gun, along with multiple mounted M2HB .50 caliber machine guns and M240 7.62mm machine guns.
Under PN service, all of the above-mentioned weapons and sensor systems were removed with the exception of the Oto Melara Mark-75 76mm main gun.
The Mk 38 is a 25mm automatic gun system that provides ownship with defensive and offensive gunfire capability for the engagement of a variety of surface targets.
It is designed to provide close range defense against patrol boats, swimmers, floating mines, and various targets ashore including enemy personnel, lightly armored vehicles and terrorist threats.
One crewman is required for operation and two for maintenance. This system consists of the M242 auto-cannon and the Mk 88 machine gun mount.
The M242 auto-cannon is an externally powered, dual-feed, single-barrel weapon which may be fired in semi-automatic or automatic modes.
In the automatic mode, the rate of fire is approximately 175 rounds per minute.
The M242 does not depend on gases for operation but instead utilizes an electric motor, located in the receiver, to drive all the moving parts inside the cannon.
Ammunition feeding, loading and firing, extraction, and ejection are all done by the motor.
The Mk 88 machine gun mount train and elevation is controlled manually by the gun operator.
In the event of a major malfunction, the M242 auto-cannon can be removed from the mount and another auto-cannon installed in five minutes by two people.
According to Aguilar, both the Alcaraz and the Del Pilar are capable of conducting patrols for long periods of time and withstanding heavy weather and rough sea conditions.
The Alcaraz was named after Commodore Ramon Alcaraz, a Philippine Navy officer, who distinguished himself during the Second World War when the patrol boat he commanded was credited for shooting down three Japanese aircraft.
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The BRP Ramon Alcaraz (PF16) continues to undergo refurbishment and refitting at the United States Coast Guard station in Charleston, South Carolina. The vessel, the second high-endurance cutter the Philippines acquired from the United States, is expected to set sail for Manila in March. (Photo by the Office of the Naval Attache, Philippine Embassy)

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