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| RP defense against air attacks weak, says PAF | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 20 2009, 02:46 AM (6,388 Views) | |
| City Hunter | Oct 6 2009, 09:52 PM Post #31 |
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Radar is good. So to are SAMs. The problem is that these are passive measures. We do need active measures to prevent air attacks. Hence, the need for combat aircraft able to identify, intercept and destroy threats. Radar can be defeated nowadays easily and there is no certainty that it will remain effective once the battle begins as what happened in Iraq when the US-led forces attacked it. The same goes for SAMs which need to be guided by such mostly not unless it comes within visual range. There's also the active defensive suite employed by some (the US and ChiComs to name some) to defeat the seeker unit for the missiles. Thus, although we are in a bad situation when it concerns to air defense (especially with the suffering these floodings have brought upon us) we should take advantage of the circumstances. We can adopt more effective measures to overcome such problems when the situation finally (hopefully soon) favors in having something to invest with on it. |
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Command is about authority, about appointment to a position. Effective leadership is different. It must be learned and practiced in order for it to rise to the level of art. You must love those you lead before you can be an effective leader. You can certainly command without that sense of commitment but you cannot lead without it; and without leadership, command is a hollow experience. .. a vacuum often filled with mistrust and ignorance. Gen. Eric K. Shinseki | |
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| raider1011 | Oct 7 2009, 12:25 AM Post #32 |
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Might be myopia, but that seems to read 'radar before fighters', not 'radar not fighters'. As it stands, the PAF has no radar and no fighters, so you have to start somewhere. I kinda have this impression interception is a passive measure too, since you're just reacting to the enemy's initiative. It's also wasteful and inefficient, an unaffordable way to fight: MRFs are wasted in static defense since you're exposing your pilots to the same risks opposing pilots face. The British lost 1,000+ fighter planes in the Battle of Britain, meaning the most heroic pilots in history lost more planes than they started with (675). If ever we get them, the Philippines will be the last country in the region to put MRFs into service--meaning we'll have the least experienced pilots. What minimum kill ratio must we achieve to repel a determined aggressor--and what kill ratio can we achieve, weighing things objectively? Area denial, that's a job for a SAM battery, and still is after 1991. Sure, the Iraqi air defense network got trashed … by a coalition of NATO air forces, counting 1,800+ aircraft. Not saying we have to match what Saddam had, but it's doubtful anyone will be sending 1,000 sorties per day against what we can put in place (unless the fellas up north forget about their neighbor across the Strait). MRFs are offensive weapons, so use them offensively--as in proactively--instead of betting everything on a single platform. A complete system, not compromise. RE: Countermeasures, so who owns the advantage in a battle of electrons, this antenna, or this one? |
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God grant me the courage not to give up what I think is right even though I think it is hopeless. || Chester W. Nimitz Loyalty to the Nation ALL the time, loyalty to the Government when it deserves it. || Mark Twain | |
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| shooter | Oct 7 2009, 01:31 PM Post #33 |
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Your right, we will waste $300,000 "if" that missile missed. Chances are that the enemy MRF will use counter-meausres. However, MRFs can only carry limited couter-meausres, so we can just shoot it again with another SAM but this time the enemy MRF is already vulnerable because it may have depleated all of its couter-measures. But, how much will you waste if your $20-50 million MRF with $1.2 million worth of missiles got shot down by the enemy because it is flying blind? MRFs without radar support from ground stations and AEW aircrafts are sitting ducks in the air. In this case, you will waste $20-50 million (that's the worth of the MRF) + $1.2 million (worth of missiles that your MRF is carrying) + the life of the pilot + the training cost for the pilot + the fuel cost of your MRF. There's a whole lot more to waste in your scenario than a SAM that "missed". How many times do I have to tell you that you have consider the maths first? Do the math again, think again. Please..? And kindly read my replies thoroughly before you post because I do not want to reiterate an answer that I have already discussed before. Just like this. Thank you very much and have a nice day. Muah! ( I hope I did not hurt anyone's feelings now, hahaha. ) |
| ...live for nothing ...but die for something - John Rambo | |
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| shooter | Oct 7 2009, 02:09 PM Post #34 |
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This is a question about priorities not about capabilities. If you hold the budget for the PhAF, which one will you buy first? New MRFs or New Radar Systems/Networks? |
| ...live for nothing ...but die for something - John Rambo | |
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| City Hunter | Oct 7 2009, 03:31 PM Post #35 |
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In order to determine what priority is more important you need to first know about the capabilities. If I'm holding the budget for PAF then the priority should be on radars as it can both address civil and military needs. MRFs can take secondary priority (not unless it comes with the package). |
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Command is about authority, about appointment to a position. Effective leadership is different. It must be learned and practiced in order for it to rise to the level of art. You must love those you lead before you can be an effective leader. You can certainly command without that sense of commitment but you cannot lead without it; and without leadership, command is a hollow experience. .. a vacuum often filled with mistrust and ignorance. Gen. Eric K. Shinseki | |
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| shooter | Oct 7 2009, 03:40 PM Post #36 |
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So, the FIRST PRIORITY is on RADARS. Very well said. Thank you. |
| ...live for nothing ...but die for something - John Rambo | |
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| City Hunter | Oct 7 2009, 05:00 PM Post #37 |
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In defining that radar is of utmost priority doesn't mean we don't include in the equation (potential candidate) MRFs. For it will include the need to communicate that information effectively, to counter and counter-measures, and even how to secure and defend the site. And that doesn't include even the building and locating of structures. Admittedly, the same problem applies when acquiring MRFs. Nothing is ever simple :P The perfect solution is to start both programs simultaneously. Acquire MRFs and support equipment to enable these to defend our territory effectively. Of course, such a thing can only be made possible if our leaders have political will. |
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Command is about authority, about appointment to a position. Effective leadership is different. It must be learned and practiced in order for it to rise to the level of art. You must love those you lead before you can be an effective leader. You can certainly command without that sense of commitment but you cannot lead without it; and without leadership, command is a hollow experience. .. a vacuum often filled with mistrust and ignorance. Gen. Eric K. Shinseki | |
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| raider1011 | Oct 7 2009, 05:10 PM Post #38 |
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Um, who's saying we should forget about MRFs again? Isn't the subject of radars the one being neglected? |
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God grant me the courage not to give up what I think is right even though I think it is hopeless. || Chester W. Nimitz Loyalty to the Nation ALL the time, loyalty to the Government when it deserves it. || Mark Twain | |
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| City Hunter | Oct 7 2009, 08:31 PM Post #39 |
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No one is saying to neglect one or the other. The question raised was which should be given a priority when the proper answer is simply both especially for the situation the Philippines is in right now. |
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Command is about authority, about appointment to a position. Effective leadership is different. It must be learned and practiced in order for it to rise to the level of art. You must love those you lead before you can be an effective leader. You can certainly command without that sense of commitment but you cannot lead without it; and without leadership, command is a hollow experience. .. a vacuum often filled with mistrust and ignorance. Gen. Eric K. Shinseki | |
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| edwin | Oct 11 2009, 01:44 PM Post #40 |
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Losing attitude, short sighted and Maybe pessimistic about our nation arms procurement. If that is the case then something to ponder on by our goverment and military officials.
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![]() It is difficult to say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and reality of tomorrow. | |
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8:39 AM Jul 11