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| RP defense against air attacks weak, says PAF | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 20 2009, 02:46 AM (6,389 Views) | |
| maverick | Oct 3 2009, 09:16 AM Post #21 |
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dude,anti-ballistic missiles,SAM,etc. cost like millions of dollars and you can only use that once,a hundred million dollars can acquire dozens of modern MRFs,MRFs first before missiles like those. |
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| shooter | Oct 3 2009, 07:28 PM Post #22 |
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Dude, MRFs cost millions of dollars too. Not only SAMs. And you can't buy dozens of "modern" MRFs with only a hundred million dollars. Maybe you can buy 3 to 5 units of modern MRFs but I think it doesn't include missiles and other costs that should be taken into account like AEW systems, etc. And because of that, your MRFs will fly blind and would still be vulnerable to attack.
Dozens of modern MRFs for only a hundred million dollars? Wow, that's cheap. What kind of "modern" MRFs are these? There are SAMs that are less than a million dollar. Have you heard about the ground launched AMRAAM? AMRAAMs cost range from $300,000 - $700,000 (source: Wikipedia) depending on the variant. The lauch platform for this is a humvee and the system is known as the SLAMRAAM. This is just one... there are others too. ![]() Anyway, you also have point that SAMs can only be used once and MRFs can be used over and over. But if the PhAF are going to send out MRFs against attackers, I think MRFs must be potent enough engage interception and air combat with the help of support units. Without the support units, I think the other side would be well favored. So, if it's MRFs, PhAF should also consider acquiring support units. Peace out. |
| ...live for nothing ...but die for something - John Rambo | |
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| raider1011 | Oct 3 2009, 10:26 PM Post #23 |
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Agreed. No room for myopia here, buying MRFs piecemeal without the system to back it up is a waste of money. Radar before fighters, which, apparently, is exactly what the government's thinking: EADS Defence & Security to enhance Philippine air traffic security
Not a radar per se, but the fact they're willing to invest in top-of-the-line "building blocks" is encouraging. It's a start. RE: SAMs, this is an option that should not be readily dismissed.
Russian SAMs are just an example, but the obvious advantage of SAMs is in being a hell of a lot easier to operate and maintain than MRFs. A competent pilot takes years and millions of dollars in fuel, simulator time, and spare parts to train; a missile crew can get going in a matter of months. Also, like the second article says, a SAM umbrella supports your navy and ground forces without risking your precious MRFs against other MRFs. An F/A-18 might be in trouble against an Su-27, but all planes are equal to a SAM. Besides, the radar system controlling those SAMs is never idle, it's watching your airspace 24/7; the radar on an MRF is no good when it's on the ground. FYC |
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God grant me the courage not to give up what I think is right even though I think it is hopeless. || Chester W. Nimitz Loyalty to the Nation ALL the time, loyalty to the Government when it deserves it. || Mark Twain | |
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| shooter | Oct 3 2009, 10:33 PM Post #24 |
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Very true indeed. Nice back-up raider1011. Let's drink to that!
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| ...live for nothing ...but die for something - John Rambo | |
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| maverick | Oct 4 2009, 06:31 PM Post #25 |
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yeah,we are going use that 300,000 dollar missile in just 1 fighter jet or any other aircraft,thats gonna be a waste, |
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| shooter | Oct 6 2009, 12:19 AM Post #26 |
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You still don't get it, do you? Haven't you done the math? Let me break it down for you. You have a $20-50 million worth MRF, plus the missiles on it, let's say 4 AMRAAMS. 1 low variant AMRAAM costs $300,000. So $300,000 X 4 is equals to $1.2 million. That's $20-50 million worth of MRF and $1.2 million worth of missiles. Plus factor in the fuel and the traing cost of the pilot. Do not forget to include the life of the pilot (and the RIO or navigator, if it has). Now, your MRF is flying blind in pursuit of an intruder or an attacker... BUT... your MRF got shot down without even seeing the enemy and without putting up any fight because it does not have any radar or AEW support. BOOM! There you go... Which one is more costly, hmmmmmmmm? Think boy! |
| ...live for nothing ...but die for something - John Rambo | |
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| raider1011 | Oct 6 2009, 02:34 AM Post #27 |
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Cool it, dudes, we're all anonymous posters here. Let's keep things friendly. BTT: A $300,000 SAM--in exchange for bringing down a $100 million MRF?! Deal! Besides, shooter brings up a good point, firing off an AAM costs just as much money. And who says you can't use a SAM as an AAM? Missiles are just expendables; with an MRF, your capital equipment is the airframe. With a SAM system, it's the radar controlling it. |
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God grant me the courage not to give up what I think is right even though I think it is hopeless. || Chester W. Nimitz Loyalty to the Nation ALL the time, loyalty to the Government when it deserves it. || Mark Twain | |
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| shooter | Oct 6 2009, 11:44 AM Post #28 |
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Oooops... I never really intended to hurt anyone's feelings. I might have over-emphasized.
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| ...live for nothing ...but die for something - John Rambo | |
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| maverick | Oct 6 2009, 07:46 PM Post #29 |
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Missiles like SAMs will be wasted if the fighter your trying to shoot down used counter measures,still think that this type of defense your suggesting is not gonna happen,though that is a good defense but still......,the philippine government will not approve this,our airforce will only rely on missiles (ground to air)?,don't think so |
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| shooter | Oct 6 2009, 08:38 PM Post #30 |
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I think you haven't read my 1st post thoroughly. That is why I said this ---
I did not say that the Philippine government must rely solely on SAMs. If you think so, then that's your problem. It was not my argument with you. My argument was the first reply I posted. To reiterate : (excerpts) ...Then, let's just wait and save a little more for the jets to come.
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| ...live for nothing ...but die for something - John Rambo | |
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8:39 AM Jul 11