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Near our waters; PLAN vs USN
Topic Started: Jun 28 2008, 08:06 AM (7,241 Views)
israeli
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this news is very disturbing. the PLAN submarine is RIGHT INSIDE Philippine territorial waters and, worse, no one within the government and/or the AFP is doing anything about it. :armyroleyes:
"To secure peace is to prepare for war." - Carl Von Clausewitz
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flipzi
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R-A-T-S

the US Navy is just playing dumb here.

they probably saw the sub and was only trying to see if the Chicoms can see the towed sonar or what the skippers behavior on such scenarios.

with the news breakout, the Chicoms and the US Navy would change strategy.

one thing is sure though. the Chicom subs are still obsolete that it cannot detect the towed sonar.

the US on the other hand is happy that they now know, the Chicoms still believe they can sneak in just like that.

in the real war, the Chicom subs are sitting ducks to the powerful weapons suite onboard the modern ships like the Arleigh Burke-class destroyers.

probably, they will use the incident in making the towed sonar better.

moreover, they probably are now designing ways to make the cable break automatically if it is caught in the subs propeller. but i guess, that concern has been incorporated into the towed sonar system long before.
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" Sovereignty resides in the people and all government authority emanates from them! - Art. II Sec 1, Philippine Constitution "


" People don't care what we know until they know we care. "


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israeli
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^ actually, Sir Flipzi, the Americans always have problems detecting diesel-electric submarines. they already borrowed a Swedish Gotland class submarine to train in detecting diesel-electric subs and, still, they are being eluded by the ChiCom subs, most of which are diesel-electrics.

still, the main issue here is the intrusion of PLAN vessels into Philippine territory (it happened near Subic Bay, which is deep inside Philippine territory) and we could not do anything about it. :armyroleyes:
"To secure peace is to prepare for war." - Carl Von Clausewitz
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pachador


the U.S, navy tracks commie submarines not only via shipboard and airborne sonars but also through sonars buried under the ocean floor in fixed underwater sites around the world called SOSUS including along the philippine coastline. There are now newer still classified more advanced systems installed underwater.

during the HUK rebellion, a philippine navy task force was sent to eastern luzon to check on reported chicom submarines, RPS Pangasinan was assigned to Casiguran Bay, RPS Cebu was assigned to San Miguel bay and RPS Samar to Lamon bay.

in 1952 RPS Samar spotted 2 chicom submarines and proceeded to depth charge one of the subs. luckily for the submarine the depth charges did not explode because it was set to explode at a deeper depth. when the submarine escaped to deeper waters, the BRP Samar gave chase and dropped depth charges again which this time exploded. its not sure if that sub was crippled or not but at least a landing of arms shipments to the HUKs was prevented.

There were other reports of OPFOR subs in philippine waters such as Russian subs during the cold war era. and so forth.

there was a second-hand story narrated that, once in the 1970s a philippine navy captain onboard a patrol vessel radioed an unknown submarine and told them to leave philippine waters or it will be depth-charged so the sub complied and left philippine waters. Unknown to the sub, the philippine patrol vessel did not carry any anti-submarine weapons .
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truegrit


Are all PN ships or boats equipped with Submarine-detecting sonar? How about those Peacock-class ships? Are they armed with Antisubmarine weapons like the Hedgehog/Squid or a Mortar that can fire Depth-charge small enough even our MPAC can be equipped with.

This is really outrageous coz if a submarine is watching at the mouth of Subic Bay
then all of the ships docking Subic bay port are sitting ducks.

http://www.ellentordesillas.com/?p=5867&cpage=2
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Marschall
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israeli
Jun 14 2009, 10:06 PM
this news is very disturbing. the PLAN submarine is RIGHT INSIDE Philippine territorial waters and, worse, no one within the government and/or the AFP is doing anything about it. :armyroleyes:

I guess the PLAN is in our waters quite often with their subs.

What do they have to fear? Nothing.
"THE BEST PARENT AND GUARDIAN OF LIBERTY AMONGST MEN IS TRUTH" ~ Pope Leo XIII, Immortale Dei

“When learned men begin to use their reason, then I generally discover that they haven’t got any.” - G. K. Chesterton

MSantor is not a man of sound reason. Savages have always preferred the club for they know that they are powerless against the pen. But who is the greater fool - the savage or the one that gives him power? May Truth rebuke you.
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seWer Rat
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amateur sewer cleaner

Now we all know the delivery system for all those counterfeit Gucci, Lacoste, D&G, Levi's, and other China-made junk flooding the local markets. :armytwisted:


Joking aside, I think the Chinese sub is so silent (one of their new AIP/diesels?) that the US destroyer failed to hear it and reel in the TSA a bit?

To avoid criticism, write nothing, say nothing, do nothing, BE NOTHING.
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pachador


gritpaladin
Jun 15 2009, 05:23 AM
Are all PN ships or boats equipped with Submarine-detecting sonar? How about those Peacock-class ships? Are they armed with Antisubmarine weapons like the Hedgehog/Squid or a Mortar that can fire Depth-charge small enough even our MPAC can be equipped with.

This is really outrageous coz if a submarine is watching at the mouth of Subic Bay
then all of the ships docking Subic bay port are sitting ducks.

http://www.ellentordesillas.com/?p=5867&cpage=2

all the PN ships such as the Auk, PCE class and cannon class used to have anti-submarine weapons but they were all removed. They are all classified now by OPFOR as OPV or fisheries patrol vessels because thats all they can do.
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pachador


reading between the lines, there is a lot going on beneath our water. our govt has choosed to downplay the incident because there isnt much we can do aside from shout like a monkey. As usual our govt depends on uncle sam which is practical but at the same time is being used as a crutch like a disabled person, and shows a lack of self-respect . dont believe the press releases. first it says subic now scarborough shoal. whats clear is that there is a downplaying of the incident and a lot of missing info probably classified or can cause a diplomatic row, hence the missing info in the news. . Anyway, a strong AFP is a prerequisite not only for national security but also economic security. by burying our head in the sand and putting things off, our civilian leadership is showing their lack of decisive leadership. Short of a violent coup that will only cause instability, the only practical way to pressure the civilian govt is to form a Defense lobby that will threaten politicians with loss of votes in the elections from the retired and active AFP servicemen and families unless the govt allots more money for the AFP. The AFP retired and active have got to unite and organize themselves into a voting bloc and form an alliance with the philippine shipyards to pressure congressmen.
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pachador


The local navy has confirmed reports that a Chinese submarine collided with
a device used by the US Navy to detect underwater threats.

A navy officer based in La Union, northern Philippines, told Gulf News in an
exclusive interview that the navy has dispatched vessels to investigate the
incident involving a Chinese submarine snagging a sonar array being towed US
Navy vessel, USS John McCain as the American destroyer was in the vicinity
of Subic Bay recently.

The incident has assumed importance as it occurred inside Philippine waters
- an area where the two ships should not have been present without
permission.

"We are trying to determine if the Chinese vessel is damaged and if it is
necessary to provide help to them since the incident apparently took place
inside our territorial waters," the official, who holds the rank of navy
commander, said.

International conventions prohibit foreign vessels from venturing beyond 12
nautical miles from the territory of another country without permission.

The Filipino naval officer said the incident took place inside the area of
responsibility of the navy station at Poro Point in La Union and that ships
had been dispatched to investigate the event.

"We are investigating why the Chinese submarine was inside Philippine
territorial waters and also why the US vessel was there in the first place,"
he said that he does not know of any possible reason why the American
destroyer would be in Subic, a former US naval base in Olongapo.

"We do not have information on whether there is a US naval exercise in the
area," he said.

Earlier, reports aired by the CNN quoted a US official as saying that the
incident was an "inadvertent encounter."

Sonar arrays are devices used by surface navy ships such as destroyers to
detect threats.
The CNN report said the US official had admitted that the array had been
left damaged by the incident while the condition of the Chinese submarine
was not clear.

The sonar array trails the towing vessel by several metres and only surfaces
when needed.

By Gilbert Felongco, Gulf News Correspondent
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