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PAF trainer jet missing; S211 lost to Typhoon Lando?
Topic Started: Nov 26 2007, 04:31 PM (3,660 Views)
City Hunter
Member
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What's the update on this? Have the missing airmen been found already?
Command is about authority, about appointment to a position. Effective leadership is different. It must be learned and practiced in order for it to rise to the level of art. You must love those you lead before you can be an effective leader. You can certainly command without that sense of commitment but you cannot lead without it; and without leadership, command is a hollow experience. .. a vacuum often filled with mistrust and ignorance.

Gen. Eric K. Shinseki
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israeli
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US declines RP request for help in search of missing pilots
By Tarra Quismundo
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 06:17pm (Mla time) 12/24/2007


MANILA, Philippines--The United States military has declined a request from the Philippine Air Force (PAF) for a US vessel to help search for two pilots and a trainer jet that have been missing for almost a month now.

Citing current deployment and limitations of its sub-sea search vessels, the Hawaii-based US Pacific Command (PACOM) has thumbed down PAF's request for an underwater search vessel to aid its search for an S-211 trainer jet that disappeared off the Kalayaan Island Group (KIG).

“The US Pacific Command received an inquiry from the Armed Forces of the Philippines requesting the feasibility of providing US search capabilities. The AFP has been informed that US PACOM requested assets are not available due to the limited number of sub-surface search capability assets in the Pacific area of responsibility, and current operational tasking,” said Maj. David Griesmer, US PACOM media officer, in an e-mailed reply to the Philippine Daily Inquirer (parent company of INQUIRER.net).

Lt. Gen. Horacio Tolentino, the PAF chief, earlier said the Air Force sent a letter to the PACOM to request a US underwater search vessel to help out Philippine ships scouring the waters off KIG for the plane and its pilots that disappeared off the islands on Nov. 26.

The recourse of a sub-sea search mission was taken as weeks of aerial search yielded no results, not even a sighting of the aircraft or its parts.

PAF officials suspected the aircraft could have crashed on a nosedive into the sea as it could not be detected from the air. Given the Philippines' limited undersea search capabilities, the Air Force sought US help.

The US military earlier sent a maritime patrol aircraft, a P-3 Orion, to help look for the jet and its pilots, Capt. Gavino Mercado Jr. and Capt. Bonifacio Soriano III. Long hours of its search sorties, however, failed in finding the plane and the pilots.

Search missions of PAF, the Philippine Navy and the Philippine Coast Guard have been suspended for the meantime, the Air Force base in Palawan said on Monday. The Philippine Air Force has vowed never to give up its search until the missing crewmen and plane were found.

The missing trainer jet suddenly lost contact with its tandem plane while flying over the KIG on Nov. 26, when it was deployed as wingman to another S-211 deployed for a search mission for a missing boat.

PAF has four S-211s left in its fleet. The trainer jet has been used for a variety of missions for the military, including combat operations and pilot training.
"To secure peace is to prepare for war." - Carl Von Clausewitz
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MSantor
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PDFF Mod Group
spearhead
Dec 16 2007, 09:57 AM
The US should send us some of these toys right away bcuz we are a Major Non-Nato Allied nation!


Spearhead,

That is not the right attitude to take; the RP should not be overly dependent on the United States for aid otherwise you will be forever in their debt. The only people who can help the Filipino people are the Filipino people themselves and it is time to start looking for both indigenous alternatives and other non-American, foreign alternatives for possible MRFs and other replacement aircraft for the AFP.

:nono:

BTW, Merry Christmas, Spearhead!

:armycheers:
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." - Henry Ford

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
- Winston Churchill


"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking"- Gen. George S. Patton
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City Hunter
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If the US doesn't want to help and there's nothing we can do to compel them can't our partners in ASEAN help us?
Command is about authority, about appointment to a position. Effective leadership is different. It must be learned and practiced in order for it to rise to the level of art. You must love those you lead before you can be an effective leader. You can certainly command without that sense of commitment but you cannot lead without it; and without leadership, command is a hollow experience. .. a vacuum often filled with mistrust and ignorance.

Gen. Eric K. Shinseki
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flipzi
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R-A-T-S

flipzi
Dec 2 2007, 01:00 PM
The PAF must ask the help of NAMRIA and MAPUA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY.

Why NAMRIA?

NAMRIA has a vessel fitted with an equipment (probably sonar-based) that can build an image of the seabed.

The idea is to to scan the seabed and check for shapes similar to the frame of the aircraft. The thing is, if the plane is there the scanning output will include something that resembles a cross or a shape unusual for the typical seabed.

Why MAPUA?

They have developed robot submersibles equipped with cameras. The searchers can use this to scan the seabed. The problem is in narrowing the search area. I suggest getting the reference from the first instance the planes encountered zero visibility.

The civilians and soldiers guarding the surrounding islets noticed nothing. So, probably, the plane went down around 50 miles (based on how human eyes can clearly detect disturbances in the horizon, like a plane going down) off the nearest islet or the coast of the main island. Even if the clouds were too low at that time, the people there could have heard something if the planes are close enough.

But since noone noticed anything, then probably it's really 50 miles off or more. Then we can ask the pilot of the surviving plane at what altitude they were when they they encountered zero visibility. Then assume that the wingman made the wrong roll and dived below, compute the possible areas where it took the plunge based on that altitude.

After that, used NAMRIA's mapping equipment to get a visual representation of the topography below on one side of the search area.

Then use MAPUA's robots to scan the seabed on the opposite side.


By the way, the Navy Islanders can do a fast visual sweep by flying low enough to scan the waters. IF THE PLANE SUNK AT THE LEVEL OF 25 FEET OR SO IT MAY STILL BE VISIBLE FROM ABOVE. The sweeping must be done at times when sunlight can penetrate that depth to give the searchers a clearer view of what's below the surface.

One concern though, the techonology was successful in finding large vessels. I do not know if finding a small plane will be as successful. In that line, i believe the MAPUA's robots may give us a better chance.

Nonetheless, the topography scaling may still work. So, what's the loss if we use both anyway? At least we would know the capabilities of the two technologies.

Dont forget Mapua.

Posted Image

VIDEO:

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/rm-625/3163031835


Status: Completed
Project Description
RM-625 is a more versatile version of Atlantis 2. More maneuverable controller system utilizes a PS2 game pad for its movements and an LCD monitor for video feeds from onboard ROV Camera.
FUTURE UPGRADES: Onboard robotic arm for gathering deep water samples to be used in laboratory experiments and other marine studies.

SPECIFICATIONS:
Target Depth: 300 Ft.
Max. Horizontal Speed: 1.18 fps.
Max Vertical Speed: 0.9 fps.
Turn Rate: 45 deg s-1
Weight: 4 kgs
for more detailed specs.


http://robotics.mapua.edu.ph/




Posted Image

" Sovereignty resides in the people and all government authority emanates from them! - Art. II Sec 1, Philippine Constitution "


" People don't care what we know until they know we care. "


getflipzi@yahoo.com
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spearhead
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DoctorNO, Your Neutral Observer.
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MSantor
Dec 26 2007, 03:41 PM
spearhead
Dec 16 2007, 09:57 AM
The US should send us some of these toys right away bcuz we are a Major Non-Nato Allied nation!


Spearhead,

That is not the right attitude to take; the RP should not be overly dependent on the United States for aid otherwise you will be forever in their debt. The only people who can help the Filipino people are the Filipino people themselves and it is time to start looking for both indigenous alternatives and other non-American, foreign alternatives for possible MRFs and other replacement aircraft for the AFP.



BTW, Merry Christmas, Spearhead!

:armycheers:

Indeed MSantor. :thumb:

Merry Christmas and have a happy new year dudeski!!!

:armycheers:
"Men of War must learn the art of numbers or he will not know how to array his troops." - Plato

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image
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City Hunter
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Ano na nangyari sa balitang ito? Totally forgotten na ba ang mga pilotong ito? Do we have something like a Bermuda Triangle here? Baka pwede isakay na lang mga pulitiko natin sa mga natitirang S211 at papuntahin rin where these guys went missing.
Command is about authority, about appointment to a position. Effective leadership is different. It must be learned and practiced in order for it to rise to the level of art. You must love those you lead before you can be an effective leader. You can certainly command without that sense of commitment but you cannot lead without it; and without leadership, command is a hollow experience. .. a vacuum often filled with mistrust and ignorance.

Gen. Eric K. Shinseki
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