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| PAF trainer jet missing; S211 lost to Typhoon Lando? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 26 2007, 04:31 PM (3,665 Views) | |
| Lorenz_Mallari | Nov 27 2007, 07:10 PM Post #11 |
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Frustrated Airsoft Player
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man...were short of aircraft and experienced pilots and this accident happens |
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| Tora^2 | Nov 27 2007, 10:39 PM Post #12 |
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Here's the latest update on the crash:
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| Tora^2 | Nov 27 2007, 10:50 PM Post #13 |
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WTF!???!!! VERTIGO!??!! I understand that flight instruments like the altimeter and the artificial horizon help pilots fly blind especially in foul weather conditions. Is it just me or the Air Force is ashamed to cite possible instrument failure. |
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| israeli | Nov 28 2007, 01:09 AM Post #14 |
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i am thinking of the same, Tora^2. are they (AFP and PAF) trying to cover up something? instrument failure? S-211 shot down by either the Chinese or the Vietnamese or even the Taiwanese?
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| "To secure peace is to prepare for war." - Carl Von Clausewitz | |
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| adrian_yamato | Nov 28 2007, 08:34 PM Post #15 |
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I'm also think the same, the plane has been shot down, possibly by the chinese, under the cover of typhoon, para hindi makahalata, I'm also think, the PAF hierchy is trying to cover-up what really happen there.
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"There's only one Government, one Armed Forces, one Contitution, & one Filipino people" -word of then Gen. Angelo T. Reyes during the Mindanao war against the MILF & Abu Sayaff- "The Army is like a cooked Spaggetti, You can't push it, you have to pull it after you" -Gen George S. Patton-
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| City Hunter | Nov 28 2007, 08:46 PM Post #16 |
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Hindi ba may past reports na that the other claimants ng said place in question fired at our PAF planes? So hindi malayo nangyari ito. Medyo nakakapagtaka na walang idea what happened. Vertigo pa palusot when matagal na nangyayari iyon. Got word from my relatives in Palawan na matagal na may pinapalipad ang PAF uli doon. So hindi naman siguro mga newbie or madaling ma-succumb to such ang mga piloto natin. Anyhow, sana mahanap sila na buhay at safe. At sana mali ang mga haka-haka natin on a cover-up. |
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Command is about authority, about appointment to a position. Effective leadership is different. It must be learned and practiced in order for it to rise to the level of art. You must love those you lead before you can be an effective leader. You can certainly command without that sense of commitment but you cannot lead without it; and without leadership, command is a hollow experience. .. a vacuum often filled with mistrust and ignorance. Gen. Eric K. Shinseki | |
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| Tora^2 | Nov 28 2007, 10:24 PM Post #17 |
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Looks like the best hints we have of what really happened lie with the following pieces of evidence once uncovered: -Wreckage of the said aircraft -Their flight data recorders -Testimony and injuries of the pilots, if found alive, or their remains Meanwhile, some nations who are alleged to have shot down our "fighter" are joining in the search:
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| flipzi | Nov 29 2007, 11:42 AM Post #18 |
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R-A-T-S
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The accident tell us one vital thing; WE DONT HAVE GOOD RADAR COVERAGE, since we cannot even pinpoint our own plane's last location before it went ... poof!
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![]() " Sovereignty resides in the people and all government authority emanates from them! - Art. II Sec 1, Philippine Constitution " " People don't care what we know until they know we care. " getflipzi@yahoo.com | |
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| Zero wing | Nov 29 2007, 04:45 PM Post #19 |
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ZAFT Sepcial Forces Operative for SEA
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i don't think so maybe its the other claimers of the island did the PAF find the data record yet ??? i am not saying but it is a possibility >???? |
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"No sacrifice is too great in the service of freedom." “As long as we are not willing to provide an adequate, suitable and capable defense for this country, we will be oppressed, demeaned and dishonored. We will be the stepping mat of every country in this region,”(Senate President Juan Ponce Enrile) “Just because we are a very weak country militarily, we should not be taken advantage of by more powerful countries" (Senate committee on national defense and security chairman Panfilo Lacson) | |
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| cyklonmetal | Nov 29 2007, 07:30 PM Post #20 |
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hindi malayong physiological factors ang cause ng crash. number of reasons could cause vertigo; inadequate rest, non compliance of 12 hour bottle to throttle rule, colds/urti etc.
it's not as easy as that, it's not just about experience or flying time in general it's more about just how much flying you have had in a specific time frame preceding the event. IIRC, S211 pilots were getting around 20-25 flying hours per quarter. barely enough to keep proficiency, of this, how many was dedicated to pure instrument flying? it's easy for an experienced pilot to drift when flying in soup, all it takes is momentary lapse in concentration. when going inside soup wingmen normally close in to maintain visual of the lead, if not possible he would break formation and rejoin once clear.
key word is help, in the end it is still the pilot who makes control inputs. a possible scenario would be; 1. lead and wingman flying echelon, separation of maybe 1-2000 ft (for SAR??) at altitude of 6,000 ft. 2. weather closes in, wingman speeds up to close separation and maintain visual of lead. 3. wingman loses visual, cuts back throttle to avoid mid air, maneuvers ac as per preflight briefing in event of loss of contact with lead. 4. while maneuvering, inadvertently places aircraft inverted 5. pulls back to gain altitude, actually putting the ac in an unrecoverable dive. or 4. while maneuvering, icing develops on wing leading edges 5. ac spins as a result of aerodynamic instability caused by wing icing. yes, icing does happen in the philippines. it has happened before with F-8's and S-211's flying in the general vicinity of spratly's. with either scenarios, 6,000 ft is barely enough room to initiate recovery. you have to remember that the very first instinct of a pilot in the event of an emergency is to recover the aircraft, not eject. if he has 15 seconds to decide eject, he will probably spend the first 12 seconds recovering the ac. if the aircraft was inverted, flying at 350 kts pointing 45 deg down, rate of descent would be around 300 ft per second and would give him around 20 secs to recover assuming that he has broken cloud cover and see that he is earthbound. if the cloud ceiling was lower in that particular area, then he would have less time. while he could have radioed his position to lead he didn't, i'm betting he didn't have the luxury of time to read distance and bearing which would have given rescuers a more specific area. If he was spinning, it would have been impossible to get a readout. |
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