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| PAF as a COIN Air Force; How best it can earn every penny | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 24 2005, 06:07 AM (11,590 Views) | |
| Tora^2 | Jul 31 2006, 08:12 PM Post #81 |
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I'd have to play Devil's advocate on that one. In the short-medium term, I don't think the AFP can afford new aircraft or new bases |
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| israeli | Jul 31 2006, 08:22 PM Post #82 |
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how about buying 36 MRFs (e.g., 36 F-16A/B ADFs, comprised of 26 F-16As and 10 F-16Bs) and dividing them into two 18-aircraft fighter squadrons? although the squadrons' mother unit is based in Basa, one fighter squadron will be based in either Basa or Clark while the other fighter squadron will be based in, let's say, Rajah Buayan or Andrews. ![]() here are some of my ideas on this topic: 1. a new base in Ilocos Norte - what if we just improve the existing facilities at the Laoag International Airport to make it usable for both civilian and military air traffic? the Laoag International Airport would be complemented by an improved air station in Cauayan, Isabela. 2. a new base in Nueva Ecija - what if we just improve the existing air strip (if there is any) within Fort Magsaysay in Laur, Nueva Ecija? 3. a new base in Bicol - what if we just improve both airports in Pili, Camarines Sur and Legaspi City to make them usable for both civilian and military air traffic? 4. a new base in Samar-Leyte areas - what if we adopt items 1 and 2 for the Tacloban City Airport? 5. a new base in Cotabato area - what if we adopt items 1 and 2 for the Cotabato City Airport? 6. for the MRFs, we must upgrade the facilities of every PAF base, most especially Basa, Clark, Villamor, Laoag, Bautista, Mactan, Buayan and Andrews, to prepare the bases for the possible permanent or temporary basing of fighter aircraft. 7. the PAF must also invest in two or three KC-130 aerial tankers to support PAF aircraft. the KC-130s will help increase the endurance and range of PAF aircraft, most especially the MRFs and MPAs. |
| "To secure peace is to prepare for war." - Carl Von Clausewitz | |
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| jammerjamesky | Jul 31 2006, 09:04 PM Post #83 |
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Comrade Flipzi i'd rather give the PAF a long term goal for procurement, training, bases development, weapon development and defense assessment. Medium term set up is not viable in our side. How can set a medium development goal if the current AFP situation is very volatile and short in budget? Medium term solution is a part of long term goal. -How can you assess/address the bases development in medium term modules? -How about the training?it must be ongoing -How about maintenance? our capability to handle such units?kumusta na? Are we in a hurry? Meron bang giyera? Basic comrade, dont forget the basic needs. Basic is the key in the development. this is a very effective tool in promoting/improving/shaping our airforces for the future. Have we really taken care of the basics? |
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| Tora^2 | Jul 31 2006, 11:46 PM Post #84 |
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The PAF seems to be short on eveything but personnel (who eats up most of its money). It cannot downscale its roster at least until the NPA threat has been greatly reduced. The best the PAF can do would be to make the most of its limited resources such that it can do a more efficient job in its role in the War on the NPA. One way would be to improve the coordination of air strike assets and infantry units. We can do this by fielding Forward Air Controllers who would be deployed with infantry or armor units to call in and coordinate airstrikes. I see it as a waste of perfectly waste of manpower that most of the PAF shooters to be merely used merely as infantrymen just like their Army counterparts. Even if the Army needs folks to help hold the fort in Southern Luzon and in Metro Manila, they would be a bigger help by also helping bridge the guys on the ground and guys in the air to deliver more accurate airpower. We can train those shooters in PAF Combat groups to be FACs and 710th SPOW shooters to be Combat Controllers |
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| Mercenary | Aug 1 2006, 09:26 AM Post #85 |
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Hmm...I counted well over one hundred attack helicopters alone in your inventory. Even in the past when the PAF enjoyed a healthy defense budget the Phil A.F. only had 42 attack helicopters at it's height which consisted of 12 AUH-76A's and 30 MG-520D Defenders. Helicopters in general are much more difficult to maintain on a daily basis verses fixed-wing aircraft because choppers have so many moving parts. What the Phil. AF really needs to strive for is to operate a mixed - balanced force of COIN aircraft both fixed-wing and helicopters. The fixed-wing types need to ideally be some sort of inexpensive (if there is such an aircraft that exists already) combat capable type such as a tandem seat, turboprop trainer with a 2,000-Lb weapon's payload and zero speed/zero level ejection seats. Maybe surplus Brazilian EMB-312 TUCANO's, I don't know. They gotta' be cheap to maintain so more are availabe on a daily basis, which means nearly all jet powerd aircraft are out. The cheapest solution instead of Tucano's would be procure about four dozen surplus, tandem seat, Czech L-39Z ALBATROSS Light Attack Jets. And the second fixed-wing type a STOL capable, twin turboprop (preferred, but not totally necessary) light tactical transport aircraft that can operate from primitive, forward airstrips. Primitive meaning, crudely hacked out of the jungle, No paved runways! :) There are really only two current existing types that can perform this particular mission(s) profile those being the Polish PZL M-28 SKY TRUCK and the well proven Spanish C-212-400 AVIOCAR. However, for alot less daily operational/per-flight-hour-costs a single engine turboprop such as the Cessna 208 CARAVAN or the PC-6B TURBO PORTER both of which can carry 2,400-Lbs of cargo in one lift and both are STOL. These fixed wing aircraft types, operating from forward airstrips in the more remote parts of Mindinao and Northern Luzon and of course in Samar in conjuction with small attack and utility helicopters (MG-520D DEFENDER's & HUEY II's respectively) would be able to provide the Phil AF with as you say Real Time close air support just about anywhere, anytime throughout the entire country. Each base could operate small flights of each type, something like this: L-39Z ALBATROSS (5) - Close Air Supoort 208 CARAVAN (3) - Forward Air Control/Para-Drop MG-520D DEFENDER (6) - Gunship Escort/Light Attack HUEY II (10) - Light Assault/Medivac A dozen or so C-212-400 AVIOCAR's operating from Mactan, Cebu could service all these airstrips flying in specialized cargo such as re-built helicopter and fixed-wing aircraft engines, fuel bladders, spare parts, ordance, ammunition, crew change rotations, air ambulance, etc. Too bad there is NO funding for any of these ideas. BTW, I believe the Phil. A.F. currently operates already a few different numbered Tactical Air Groups in different regions of the country most equipped with a handful of MG-520D's and UH-1H's. |
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| flipzi | Aug 1 2006, 09:43 AM Post #86 |
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That was the problem in WW2 or before the advent of long range radars. Today putting the bases the nearest place possible is like giving it a longer range and faster response time. SAMs and long range radars will handle the risks.
EXACTLY!
Not a bad pick.
You got a point there. 4 MRFs for Villamor, Ilocos, Palawan, and Andrews will be safe. 7 each for Basa and Ebuen. |
![]() " Sovereignty resides in the people and all government authority emanates from them! - Art. II Sec 1, Philippine Constitution " " People don't care what we know until they know we care. " getflipzi@yahoo.com | |
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| flipzi | Aug 1 2006, 10:08 AM Post #87 |
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It can, based on the economic performance these days. :thumb: ALL WE NEED IS POLITICAL WILL OF THE PRESIDENT.
Not a bad idea. But there is a safer distribution though considering response time and the concern that MSANTOR had just mentioned. "7-jet squadron for Basa and Ebuen and 4-jet squadron for Ilocos, Palawan and rajah Buayan." Your idea on joint-use of the bases like in Laoag Int'l Airport and Pili and other sites are possible as long the facility can handle the choppers (attack and transports). In the case of Laoag, it is now impossible. I suggest setting up a new base farther north. Your suggestion on Fort Mag is what i have in mind as well. The tankers should form part of our long term plan. Nice inputs, Israeli! :thumb:
If you will look again, my emphasis is on INTERNAL THREAT, that's why i focused on the distribution of attack choppers and Hueys. This is to support our ground troops. The plan is viable given today's local economic trend.
There is. That's the end-game for the local insurgency problem. I named this as "medium-term plan" because we can only shift to our long term plan when we are done with this COIN problem. Why? Because the prevalence of this COIN problem is hindering us from moving on to our long-term plan, which heavily depends on how the economy would perform under such conditions.
Basics is not a big concern. We've been addresing that ever since and we are doing fine with regard to that. What we can't do is the big plans.
Coordination should be improved as well, i agree.
I agree. The PAF can check on that. With that concern i suggest adding these; 1) Basa AB - 4 OV-10 2) Rajah Buayan - 4 OV-10 3) Andrews AB - 4 OV-10 4) Atienza AB - 4 OV-10 (supporting Calabarzon) They can be deployed to other bases in times when a prolonged battle is programmed.
Yes, ive seen that setup but the total number is very thin compared to the requirements of the AFP. Since we are now gearing for an enhanced COIN operation we need more choppers that we can call in to assist our ground units. That would entail parking more attack choppers and utility Hueys. This big number will definitely congest the facility which are often shared with the commercial airline operators. The concern on maintenance and security play a vital role in setting up new bases instead of the joint use of facilities or spreading these units to all airport facilties nationwide. The joint-use setup on small airports may even endanger the commercial airline passengers when the small Air Force unit is attacked. Setting a new base when the existing facility is too small in order to ensure security is indeed a much better alternative. |
![]() " Sovereignty resides in the people and all government authority emanates from them! - Art. II Sec 1, Philippine Constitution " " People don't care what we know until they know we care. " getflipzi@yahoo.com | |
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| al'Lan Mandragoran | Aug 10 2007, 04:39 PM Post #88 |
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Interesting paper written by Maj. Erickson Roque Gloria for the RAAF Aerospace Center. Its very long so you better download the PDF version: http://www.defence.gov.au/raaf/airpower/ht...ne_tactical.pdf |
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"In wars, boy, fools kill other fools for foolish causes." "Run when you have to, fight when you must, rest when you can." - Robert Jordan; The Wheel of Time | |
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| Frenzy | Aug 10 2007, 05:05 PM Post #89 |
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Good find Iron Drag :thumb: |
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| caterwaul | Aug 10 2007, 05:58 PM Post #90 |
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Gloria wrote this in 2000, a major, where is he now? |
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8:39 AM Jul 11