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| PAF as a COIN Air Force; How best it can earn every penny | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 24 2005, 06:07 AM (11,591 Views) | |
| edwin | Jul 6 2006, 05:49 PM Post #71 |
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tora, Yeah. We must show to our neighbors that our Armed Forces can eliminate or defeat any threat to our country. I already heard those name since I was in HIGH School like NPA, MNLF and MILF but until now, they are still fighting for unreasoble cause that only resulted of our country being backward in progress. Hanggang ngayon ba ay wala pa rin effective formula yung mga nasa itaas to eliminate totally the rebellion in our country?? Sobrang tagal na yan but until today yan pa rin ang focus ng officials. Is there something wrong with their plan or the goverment itself doesn't have any plan at all.?? If really our officials are Genuine in defeating the insurgency to our nation in which a long time priority of the goverment ever since, then they(goverment) must review seriously their plan or method on how to eliminate the longest running insurgency in asia. Peace to all. |
![]() It is difficult to say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and reality of tomorrow. | |
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| Tora^2 | Jul 6 2006, 06:37 PM Post #72 |
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While it seems the Air Force is merely putting its money into the upkeep of 16,200 personnel (14500 Enlisted and 1700 Officers of which 1000 are pilots) and 120 servicable aircraft in its fleet as well as fighting a COIN campaign with Hueys, Defenders, Broncos and its combat groups, it seems to be making baby steps for it to retain its air defense capabilities. Check this Press Release from the PAF site out:
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| seWer Rat | Jul 6 2006, 06:46 PM Post #73 |
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amateur sewer cleaner
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But still its a beginning, who knows its air defense capability will be a toddler in less than six months. :aberet: Make the PAF honchos drink a lot of Promil or Gain he he he. |
| To avoid criticism, write nothing, say nothing, do nothing, BE NOTHING. | |
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| jammerjamesky | Jul 6 2006, 11:21 PM Post #74 |
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Doing more with less budget is a good action of PAF. Making impossible things possible.... :thumb:
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| Tora^2 | Jul 8 2006, 05:40 PM Post #75 |
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Yes, Jammer, the PAF should make the most of its limited resources especially by making excess baggage like airmen-athletes or units like the 250th Pres Airlift Wing more useful in the current COIN campaign. They must also reduce unnecessary expenditures like Camp beautification projects. In my honest opinion, the best way still for the PAF to build up its external defense capabilities would be to do its part in properly hammering down the NPA threat ASAP. Not only will this free up extra resources especially excess personnel who will bephased out once the NPA threat is reduced to very insignificant levels. This is a chance for it to gain Her Excellency's favor and build up its bargaining power within the DND since it appears the Philippine Army is hogging too much of the limelight and some of its Generals know how to suck up to the CNCAFP. |
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| Mercenary | Jul 13 2006, 02:15 PM Post #76 |
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I've been thinking for awhile here that it's not how many aircraft the Philippine Air Force lacks but more importantly what types of respective aircraft it operates. First off we all know there is currently no budget nor extra funding for new or surplus replacement aircraft to procure, but for sake of making some points here. The problems I see are the types of individual aircraft the Phil AF operates are not Multi-Role and several are sadly lacking overall. For instance, if the PAF years ago had bought the C-101CC AVIOJET instead of the less capable S-211 Combat Jet Trainer then right now the PAF could be utillizing a light strike AVIOJET with it's 5,000-Lb weapon's payload instead of the S-211's pathetic 1,400-Lbs. And the AVIOJET is much faster (500+-mph) than the S-211, has a longer range without using drop tanks, and can be used for interceptions of turboprop aircraft as it's maximum speed is higher to begin with. In essence, the C-101CC AVIOJET which was one of the contenders against the S-211 would have been the best and right choice. Money is one thing to consider but how much capablity and Multi-Role missions can each respective aircraft fulfill has to be considered. The AVIOJET fits right in between the more capable and vastly over-priced HAWK 60 offered at the time. The S-211 'ought to have never been purchased. An EMB-312 Tucano has more capabilities than that worthless Jet Trainer for what the Philippine Air Force needs back then and especially right now. Another prime example is the flawed Australian built N-22B NOMAD STOL Transport aircraft. Let's pretend for a moment the PAF was smart enough years ago to procure the Spanish built C-212-200 series AVIOCAR STOL Transport aircraft instead they'd have an aircraft that has a rear cargo ramp instead of a small, side opening door. An AVIOCAR has a useful 6,000-Lb payload verses the NOMAD's about half that and the C-212 is LAPES (Low Altitude Parachute Extraction System) ccapable not the N-22B. Numerous Air Forces around the world continue to operate the AVIOCAR such as Ecuador, Venezula, Colombia, Suriname, Tunisia, South Africa, etc. Spain and Indonesia still manufacturer this excellent STOL Tactical Transport Aircraft. Another example is the PAF's SF-260 TP Warrior which is at best a poor man's light weapon's capable primary trainer, but the PAF bought it for Basic Training after pilots initally recieved their training on Cessna T-41D's. The SF-260 TPW's are dangerous when used for COIN - close air support because it does not have any ejection seats for saving pilots if hit by ground fire. Secondly, the SF-260 TPW's maximumweapon's load is only 660-Lbs = a couple of 7-rd 70mm rocket pods or a pair of 250-Lb retarded bombs and nothing more. And then it's egress speed (after expending it's weapons on the target, flight speed) is horrendously slow, making it vulnerable to ground fire coupled with no cockpit armor (unlike the Bronco) and no ejection seats (also unlike the OV-10A/M) we can all see the severe limitations of the SF-260 TP Warrior. I believe whenever there is a real budget and modernization of the Philippine Air Force the planners who are in charge of procuring new replacement aircraft types need to look acquiring as much Multi-Rolecapabilties as they can get out of each individual aircraft chosen. I really believe the Phil AF could operate what I call the Dirty Dozen or just twelve different aircraft types to fulfill all the mission requirements of the Air Force. Many Western airforces are thinking along these lines i.e., Doing More With Less Aircraft types. The Scandavian nations are a superb example. The Philippine Air Force at one time operated no less than tendifferent types of Helicopters...alone. Which puts a tremendous strain on providing spares, training and avalibility to operate and maintain each type. The could be done with just fourdifferent types of Helicopters. Such as these: 1. AH-1F COBRA (Attack/Gunship Escort) 2. MG-530F DEFENDER (Combat Scout/Light Attack/Primary Training Helicopter) 3. Bell HUEY II (Assault/Medi-Vac/Battlefield Utility) 4. Bell 412SP (Special Forces Support/Search & Rescue/Presidential Air Lift/VIP) That would leave just eight different types of Fixed Wing aircraft to operate. A couple of Civilian Flying Schools could engage in contracts with the Philippine Air Force to provide low cost Primary Training on Cessna 172's for intial 'screener' training as is done worldwide. This would eliminate one more aircraft type the PAF would'nt have to operate. For the Basic Trainer and Weapons Trainer roles surplus Brazilian EMB-312 TUCANO's or better yet new tandem seat, combat proven, EMB-314 SUPER TUCANO's would be Thee ideal. Or possibly the new American AT-6B Texan II...if the price were right. In the future, the latter types would be the natural replacement for the OV-10A/M BRONCO. All of these Trainer types are equipped with zero speed/zero altitude ejection seats. And the SUPER TUCANO comes with important cockpit armor. The PAF has an outstanding, future requirement for a Lead-In Fighter Trainer and a Surface Attack Fighter for which a single aircraft type needs to be bought instead of two. Thinking outside the box, the Brazilian version, tandem seat, radar equippedAMX-ATA would be a fine choice providing excellent all-weather ground attack and light maritime strike roles effectively at a relatively low cost. In manevuers against F-16's, AMX's have out-turned the latter at lower speeds. The Multi-Role Fighter type to retain the Dirty Dozen approach needs to be a tandem seater maybe KFIR TC-7's or F-16B Block 32? Long range Maritime Patrol and Medium Air Lift roles the best aircraft would be the CN-235 MPA & CN-235M-200 respectively as they are same aircraft minus sensors so the Philippine Air Force saves millions by utilizing the same engine, airframe, transmission, propellers, fuel systems, etc. All ground maintainance crews are trained on a single airframe type for alot of multi-role capabilities! The Philippine President and VIP's would fly on Civilian registered, government aircraft thus further reducing the expense for the Philippine Air Force's overall budget. THE DIRTY DOZEN 1. F-16D Block 32 - Multi-Role Fighter/Interceptor 2. AMX-ATA - Lead-In Fighter Trainer/Surface Attack/Tactical Reconnaise 3. AT-29 SUPER TUCANO - Basic Trainer/Foward Air Control/COIN 4. CN-235 MPA - 'armed' Maritime Patrol Aircraft 5. C-130H HERCULES - Heavy Air Lift 6. CN-235M-200 - Medium Air Lift/Paratroop/LAPES 7. C-212-400 AVIOCAR - STOL Tactical Air Lift/Air Ambulance 8. Beech KING AIR 350 - 8-passenger Liaison/VIP/Multi-Engine Trainer 9. AH-1F COBRA - Attack/Gunship Escort/Anti-Armor 10. MG-530F DEFENDER - Combat Scout/Light Attack/Helicopter Trainer 11. Bell HUEY II - Battlefield Utility/Assault/Medivac 12. Bell 412SP - Search & Rescue/Special Forces Support/VIP |
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| Tora^2 | Jul 17 2006, 02:18 AM Post #77 |
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Aside from having Her Excellency and members of her court fly in civvy aircarft registered under government agencies and government owned/controlled companies for their sorties, she should transfer administrative and fiscal control of the 250th PAW to the PSG or to her office so that the PAF won't have to saddled with the financial constraints of keeping Her Own Personal Air Limo Service at a high level readiness(it received an award last PAF day for being the unit with the highest safety rating). After all, the Office of the President can afford it. The PAF needs the money to finance the upkeep of its fleet helping fight the war on the NPA and other Terrorist groups + those "destabilizers" while being weighed down by a roster of 16,200 personnel it cannot downsize by half overnight. |
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| page mcney | Jul 26 2006, 09:17 PM Post #78 |
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great idea sir mercenary! that's what i'm always saying again and again: "use multi-role aircrafts to lessen cost, inventory of parts, lesser training on too many aircrafts"... maybe another term, i think: "more bang for the bucks"?
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| flipzi | Jul 31 2006, 05:19 PM Post #79 |
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My idea is to setup new bases and purchase air assets to assists our ground soldiers in their operations. This involves setting up new bases to cover the entire country effectively. When I say effectively, I mean being able to provide TIMELY and CAPABLE air support to all govt units when the need arises. The new defense setup will depend on how well these bases can provide the needed service to other units. This setup is in time for the government's effort in ending the 40-year insurgency problem. Air Base development: 1) A new base in Ilocos Norte - - 7 MRFs for external defense - 7 attack choppers (for close air support) - 12 utility choppers for transport/medevac) *** This new base will cover the northwestern part of Luzon. 2) Improvement of the Air Force facility in Cauayan, Isabela - - 7 attack choppers - 12 utility helicopters *** This new base will cover the northeastern part of Luzon 3) A new base in Nueva Ecija - - 7 attack choppers - 12 utility helicopters *** This new base will cover the Central Luson including Bulacan 4) Clark AB - 7 attack choppers - the Heavy Airlift Wing - Maritime patrol aircraft, which will cover western and northern part of the country. *** The attack choppers will cover Pampanga, Bulacan, Bataan, Tarlac and even Bulacan. The Heavy Airlift Wing should be transferred here from Cebu as the International Airport in Clark and its proximity to Manila will improve its logistics operations well. 5) Basa AB - retains external defense functions 6) Villamor AB - presidential airlift wing - Search and Rescue - 6 attack choppers (Cobra helicopters with guided missiles) - 8 utility choppers *** the 7 attack choppers will cover Manila and Calabarzon. The missile-firing Cobras may be used to counter terrorists threats. 7) Fernando AB - flying school - 7 attack choppers - 12 utility choppers *** Retains flying training wing. Attack choppers and Hueys will cover Calabarzon, Mindoro & Marinduque. 8) A new base in Naga City. - 7 attack choppers - 12 utility choppers *** willl cover Bicol areas including Romblon 9) A new base in Catarman, Samar - 7 attack choppers - 12 utility choppers - Maritime patrol aircrafts *** Will cover Samar-Leyte areas. MPAs will cover eastern part of the country 10) Benito Ebuen AB - MRF, for external defense - 7 attack choppers - 12 utility choppers - SAR *** Attack choppers will cover Central Visayas including Panay Island. Heavy airlift wing will be transferred to Clark and the new base in Butuan City 11) Baustista AB - MRF, for external defense - maritime patrol aircraft - 4 attack choppers - 8 utility choppers *** MPAs will cover western part of country. Attack choppers will cover Palawan areas. 12) A new base in Butuan City - 7 attack choppers - 12 utility choppers - Heavy airlift wing *** wil cover northern and eastern part of Mindanao 13) A new base in Cotabato or improvement of facility in 6ID HQ - 7 attack choppers - 12 utility choppers *** wil cover Central Mindanao 14) Buayan AB - 7 attack choppers - 12 utility choppers - maritime patrol aircraft - SAR *** MPAs will cover southernmost part of the country. Attack choppers will cover Southern Mindanao. 15) Adrews AB - MRFs, for external defense - 7 attack choppers - 12 utility choppers *** attack choppers will cover Southwestern Mindanao. The setting up of new bases will also spur economic growth in the area. So even in times of peace, these facilities will serve as catalysts for growth in their respective areas. |
![]() " Sovereignty resides in the people and all government authority emanates from them! - Art. II Sec 1, Philippine Constitution " " People don't care what we know until they know we care. " getflipzi@yahoo.com | |
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| MSantor | Jul 31 2006, 07:58 PM Post #80 |
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flipzi, Wouldn't your new base in Ilocos Norte also be within range of both ROCAF and PLAAF planes? Just saying that the PAF wouldn't want to commit the same mistake that the US Army Air Corps committed at Fort Stotsenberg/Clark Airbase at the beginning of the Pacific Conflict of World War II- having all those planes caught on the ground at the wrong time. Any new plan for a PAF Orbat should also include new radar stations to provide early warning for your proposed new bases. Speaking of which, I'd rather that MRFs- when we FINALLY get around 20-30- be further dispersed to the ff. bases: 1.) Basa 2.) Benito Ebuen- Central Visayas Defense 3.) Bautista 4.) Villamor- for Capital defense 5.) Buayan/Andrews I'd rather these be put in four-ship flights rather than 7-ship flights/elements. Dispersal means that any enemy air attack will not catch all the PAF's eggs in one basket! You wouldn't want PLAAF Su-30s, refueled by tankers, doing attack runs on your proposed Ilocos Norte base, or Malaysian RMAF F-18s/MiG29s bombing Bautista AB either! |
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"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." - Henry Ford "Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking"- Gen. George S. Patton | |
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great idea sir mercenary! that's what i'm always saying again and again: "use multi-role aircrafts to lessen cost, inventory of parts, lesser training on too many aircrafts"... maybe another term, i think: "more bang for the bucks"?



8:39 AM Jul 11