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| PAF as a COIN Air Force; How best it can earn every penny | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 24 2005, 06:07 AM (11,592 Views) | |
| Tora^2 | Jul 3 2006, 06:35 PM Post #61 |
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The US Armed Forces has such a program called Blue to Gold where Sailors and Airmen can transfer to the Army with a reduced training cycle and they get to keep the ranks they had in the service they left. If only Sec Nonong Cruz and Gen Senga's successor could implement a similar program to decongest the PAF and the PN not to mention ease the PA's manpower shortages. As for acquring MRFs soon, MSantor, I have to disagree with the idea of us buying MRFs before 2015 and using them in CAS missions in the long-running campaign versus the NPA. The CAS assests the PAF need more of nowadays would be attack helos and turboprops like the OV10 and attack helos like those 6 night-capable Cobras. The keyword here is maintainability. Jets like S211s or even fighters like F16s are fast and can carry a wide range of ordinance but sadly, they require more man hours of maintenance, costlier spare parts (especially if the plane carries PGMs or if it flies past Mach 1) and a lot more fuel which the PAF can ill afford. This is especially true if you are fighting a protracted COIN campaign without an end within visual range |
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| MSantor | Jul 4 2006, 06:57 AM Post #62 |
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As I said before, a COIN campaign is still NO EXCUSE to let down on external defense. I've pointed this out in previous threads (especially with the comparisons to Thailand and Colombia) and you still haven't given me a good counterargument other than the supposed lack of funds for the future MRFs. Say the PLAAF (hypothetically) flexes it muscle by sending aggression flights of Su-27s not only over the Spratleys, but possibly over Manila if they ever make aerial refuelling one of their regular SOPs. What is the PAF going to do when the Chinese do that? Send its "ALL-POWEFUL" S211s to shoot down the trespassers? It's more likely the Chinese pilots will die laughing unless a PAF pilot happens to Kamikaze one of the Su-27s travelling at subsonic speed. |
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"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." - Henry Ford "Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking"- Gen. George S. Patton | |
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| israeli | Jul 4 2006, 10:29 AM Post #63 |
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the ChiComs know so well the weakness of the Philippines- internal strife- they decided to fund the Neps, as revealed in so many media already. we also know that the Malaysians (and the Libyans and Iranians) openly funded the Muslim separatists down south, following the same line that the ChiComs did when they funded the Neps. with that, we now see how the internal and external threats got mixed up together. these external threats know for a fact that the Philippines will not be able to hold against a possible invasion coming from the outside because it is busy fighting the Neps and the separatists and that it has all its assets focused on the internal strife aside from the fact that the funds slated for proper military use have been stolen by corrupt government and military officials and civilians. like what i have emphasized in my posts in the past, we must adopt the Colombian approach into doing things. the Colombians maybe busy fighting the FARC and other guerillas and terrorists within its borders that they have a CREDIBLE external defense capability (e.g. upgraded Kfir and Mirage 5 multi-role fighters, several guided-missile frigates and missile boats, and Type 209 submarines) given the threat being posed by its more powerful neighbor Venezuela. |
| "To secure peace is to prepare for war." - Carl Von Clausewitz | |
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| Tora^2 | Jul 4 2006, 11:30 AM Post #64 |
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I understand your concern, MSantor. I am well aware that China, especially with its new toys and upgraded economic status could be flexing its muscles anytime soon. The Philippines currently only has 4 S211s, aging corvettes and a handful of sailors staioned in our share of the Kalayaan Islands to protect ourselves from external military threats. While our neighbor, Thailand does have F16 and F5E squadrons, SU30s on order, their insurgency problem is confined to a particular region. The CPP NPA operates only in small groups but are scattered throughout the country. They might not command large portions of territory like FARCs and those Rightist Militia do in Colombia, but they can wreak havoc and disrupt the activities of those in the countryside by blackmail. And they hurt the economy a lot considering the RP relies a lot on agriculture. They may be increasing in resurgence soon with the President's legitimacy being disputed and the AFP/PNP's credibilty sinking to greater depths The best way, in my opinoin, to enable the AFP to scare off obnoxious neghbors would have to be hose down this threat ASAP through Military, Political and Economic means. They should at least be able to whittle down the threat such that the cops can take it down easily. This would enable the AFP to focus more and more of its resources to what it's supposed to do |
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| page mcney | Jul 4 2006, 12:57 PM Post #65 |
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good point sir tora^2! the gov't should lessen, or better yet eliminate, the neps and other insurgent groups (the INTERNAL THREATS), then reduce the number of personnel from the AF before the AFP/AF can focus on the EXTERNAL THREATS (with the savings that they could muster for reduction of personnel, etc...)hoping the gov't/AFP could hear this!... |
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| israeli | Jul 4 2006, 06:27 PM Post #66 |
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again, it will not be easy to fire 12,000 PAF personnel and just leave 5,000 in service. doing so will cause unrest that will SURELY lead to a, MILITARY UPRISING. what we must do is to make good use of all 17,000 men and women of the Philippine Air Force. |
| "To secure peace is to prepare for war." - Carl Von Clausewitz | |
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| Marschall | Jul 5 2006, 03:42 AM Post #67 |
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I'd suggest the purchase of Kfir some C7 or Kfir C10 as an interim solution to save some money and still give our pilots the chance to fly. Of course these kfirs should then be armed with modern AAMs to improve its capabilities.![]() ![]() |
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"THE BEST PARENT AND GUARDIAN OF LIBERTY AMONGST MEN IS TRUTH" ~ Pope Leo XIII, Immortale Dei “When learned men begin to use their reason, then I generally discover that they haven’t got any.” - G. K. Chesterton MSantor is not a man of sound reason. Savages have always preferred the club for they know that they are powerless against the pen. But who is the greater fool - the savage or the one that gives him power? May Truth rebuke you. | |
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| Tora^2 | Jul 5 2006, 10:42 AM Post #68 |
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That's exactly what happened in the Republic of East Timor recently. When their PM tried to fire a hefty recalcitrant portion of the Timorese Army, these troops took their guns and joined in the unrest. Fortunately, the Aussies intervened and was able to cause the parties, namely these Tiimorese Army renegades, to turn in their weapons and surrender peacefully. MSantor presented one option would be a gradual phaseout of personnel where excess airmen would be discharged in batches. Of course, a program patterned after the Pentagon's Blue-Gold could give a chance to those need to be discharged but would like to continue to serve in another Major Uniformed service like the PA, the PMC of the PN or even the PNP. After all, the PA needs extra soldiers to fight the NPA and in the future they might need an alternate source for experienced manpower when it re-orents its Army to that of the country's last line of external defense. Switching over to the PNP needs a longer transition cycle since cops have a totally different orientation. The role of the Cop is to uphold the peace and when it comes to taking out threats, it's shoot to disable firsts and not to kill. That applies even if the cop happens to be a SWaT or an SAF shooter. For now, since fighting a sustained COIN campaign requires more manpower (especially when you'd need to project a stronger military presence in remote areas), even if it means doing Civic-Military Operations, a mission normally left to PAF reservists. |
JOIN UP! POWER UP! DO MORE MORE WITH LESS! | |
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| MSantor | Jul 5 2006, 05:29 PM Post #69 |
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Mr. Tora Tora, Switching all those 12,000 airmen to the Philippine Army or PNP will DEFEAT the purpose of cutting in the airmen in the first place- PERSONNEL CUTS in favor of new equipment purchases or parts for older equipment. The supposed savings in funds previously spent on these personnel should be spent on new equipment, even if Philippine Army is understrength by US standards. (5,000-8,000 for a single PA division? give me a break- that's as big as US regiment/brigade!) Therefore a phasing out of these personnel, whether gradual or sudden, is in order... |
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"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." - Henry Ford "Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking"- Gen. George S. Patton | |
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| edwin | Jul 6 2006, 05:29 PM Post #70 |
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I agre with you. I have the same sentiment, while trying to reduce or eliminate those useless rebellion in our country, we must also FIND A WAY IN improving our capability with regards to EXTERNAL DEFENSE. Eliminating first those pestering insurgents is one of the most pressing needs to address, but how do we do it with great result.?? Still we need to buy those equipment in order to enhance the capability of AFP. Actuaully we already discuss it on another thread: PLs check the link below. http://pdff.sytes.net/index.php?showtopic=2992&st=15 Peace |
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good point sir tora^2! the gov't should lessen, or better yet eliminate, the neps and other insurgent groups (the INTERNAL THREATS), then reduce the number of personnel from the AF before the AFP/AF can focus on the EXTERNAL THREATS (with the savings that they could muster for reduction of personnel, etc...)



8:39 AM Jul 11