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PAF as a COIN Air Force; How best it can earn every penny
Topic Started: Jun 24 2005, 06:07 AM (11,593 Views)
gemini1
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The powers that be should really do some serious thinking if they really want our Air force to be at par with our neighbors in terms of air assets. 17000 personnel is way to high. they should be trimmed down to maybe 5000? the money they can save from the 12000 excess personnel can be used to add more planes and or maintenance. They should leave the ground operations to the army.

just my 2 cents
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israeli
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firing 12,000 PAF personnel will not be that easy. that would trigger an unrest that may cause something that many of us here are trying to avoid.

instead of trimming the number of PAF personnel from 17,000 down to just 5,000 to 8,000, we must think of ways to make good use of these 17,000 men and women. :thumb:
"To secure peace is to prepare for war." - Carl Von Clausewitz
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knightshade
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baka magkagulo pa kung sisantehin yan, utilize nalang para mapakinabangan ng ng maayos.. :thumb:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke -Tears of the Sun
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MSantor
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israeli
Jun 30 2006, 12:20 AM


p.s.: i don't know if this one makes sense but given the fact that our country lies in one of the most volatile regions on planet earth (regional warlord China, North Korea posing a threat and the presence of a regional unit of Al Qaeda), don't you guys think that we should "strengthen" the 17,000-strong PAF through re-equipment and training instead of trimming down the number of officers and military and non-military personnel of the unit?

The fact that you mentioned all the potential adversaries who are neighbors one day and possibly enemies the next is all the more reason why the PAF should get MRFs!

MRFs can even do the CAS job for the PAF!

Quote:
 
How many generals do we have in the PAF? even a Lt Col can run the whole PAF


I wouldn't go as far as to say that. But the number of PAF generals should be trimmed down from the 20+ the PAF currently keep on their payroll (as stated in star tracker) to only about 4-5. the Commanding general and his A-1 through A-5 staff (sorry to use USAF terminology here), but no more than that!

As for the PAF total personnel number, 8,000 to 10,000 seems more reasonable.

Speaking of personnel. GEEE...I wonder, how much personnel does the Republic of Singapore Air Force have? Ha? And they still have more MRFs than the PAF! It's so annoying that a former colonial city-state (on an island which I heard can fit in Subic Bay) turned Asian Tiger has a more capable air force.
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." - Henry Ford

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
- Winston Churchill


"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking"- Gen. George S. Patton
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possible
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^Apparently, the AFP is indeed thinking along the lines of your idea:

Quote:
 
AFP to cut force by half if Reds are crushed

Savings for modernization
First posted 01:59am (Mla time) June 19, 2006
By Vincent Cabreza
Inquirer

FORT DEL PILAR, Baguio City-- Winning the war against the communist and Islamic rebels would enable the military to cut its force by 50 percent and use its savings to buy modern war equipment, a military official said here.

Lieutenant General Antonio Romero II, Armed Forces of the Philippines vice chief of staff, said President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo’s new time frame to solve the insurgency problem would mean that half of the AFP’s 100,000 personnel could be retrenched after 2008.

“If we finish with the insurgency [problem] then we can reduce our troops … by 50 percent. In essence [the military] needs only a few [personnel] so the money could be diverted to external defense,” he said.

“As you modernize, your reliance on human beings is lessened when you acquire more equipment.”


http://news.inq7.net/nation/index.php?index=1&story_id=79620

Obviously the overly-large PAF payroll would be a priority for such a scheme. Provided the concerns about the welfare of deactivated AFP personnel are addressed, this proposal certainly deserves serious consideration. :crawling:


War. What is it good for?--James Brown

What's love got to do with it?--Tina Turner

Only the intelligent are brave.
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MSantor
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How about Gradual deactivation?

In the case of the PAF, how about instead of summarily discharging up to 12,000 personnel at once (once the NPA is destroyed of course), perhaps the AFP would do well to discharge or decommission in them in phases, but putting them initially on reserve? Those servicemen being cut can be put in limited duty until their discharge papers come in. And because of the large number of personnel being retired, this should be done in phases, with different numbers being retired (probably using the same reasoning as if the US military finally set a withdrawal date for leaving Iraq)

I think the US armed forces have different categories of reserve, including those on Immediate Ready Reserve (IRR) who are recently discharged or awaiting discharge who still have the option of being recalled to an active unit (against their will of course) in times of war or a national emergency, but within 3 years of their being discharged of course. When I was still studying in the US, a USAF enlisted airman I was talking to while waiting in a DMV line had his discharge papers rescinded just because the news of Sept.11 attacks happened to occur JUST AS HE WAS BEING HANDED HIS DISCHARGE PAPERS! Poor guy, since he was a forward air controller who claimed he jumped with the 173rd Airborne Brigade in Northern Iraq back in 2003.

I assume the AFP has different categories of reserve as well. Perhaps they should implement some form of IRR status or some form of gradual deactivation for all the branches if and when the AFP finally crushes the NPA- gradual deactivation would give these service personnel who are leaving some dignity and help them adjust to leaving the armed forces.
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." - Henry Ford

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
- Winston Churchill


"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking"- Gen. George S. Patton
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edwin
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Tora^2
Jun 13 2006, 06:34 PM


This thread is not only about low-cost combat aircraft and other systems but about ways the PAF still be highly capable despite low defense politics and having to serve a government laden with partisan politics and corruption

The only way is to give emphasis on the quality of training does PAF personnel will get. From PILOT to the lowest rank, because creating a first rate Air Force relies on equipment alone and how it will be handle effectively and professionally.

Training our Military personnel to become highly professional must given priority specially those areas where it will require complete discipline and technical expertise.

Straight to the point, an Air force without any necessary tools and equipment is not considered an Air force at all.
Any respected Air Force needs Combat Aircraft and Helicopter of different types which is the most important asset and lifeblood of Air force around the globe.

PAF dont have the most important asset which is combat aircraft other than old type of refurbished helicopter for many times.
Im just wondering if we are just wasting our money to an Air force that does'n have any important asset to handle other than thousand of personnel in the payroll. Peace to all. :armycheers:
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Tora^2
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israeli
Jul 1 2006, 05:02 PM
firing 12,000 PAF personnel will not be that easy. that would trigger an unrest that may cause something that many of us here are trying to avoid.

instead of trimming the number of PAF personnel from 17,000 down to just 5,000 to 8,000, we must think of ways to make good use of these 17,000 men and women. :thumb:

That is what I was trying to emphasize in my previous post!!!

If we can't get rid of those 12,000 extra airmen and officers, it would be better if we make sure they're worth every penny.

In the US Army in Iraq, even artillerymen, clerks and US Band Members are out on patrol as infantry.

I'm sure all those guys in the PAF Football Team, Honor Guards or even that 710th SPOW shooter who is the chauffeur to some colonel's daughter can be used a more relevant mission to fulfill than what they are doing right now.

They can also be trained for other duties the PAF is badly in need of even if it means being issued an M16 and spare mags and going on patrol in Batangas or Quezon or being on standby in Villamor for another Coup attempt under a Combat Group.
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MSantor
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Tora^2
Jul 2 2006, 09:39 PM

They can also be trained for other duties the PAF is badly in need of even if it means being issued an M16 and spare mags and going on patrol in Batangas or Quezon or being on standby in Villamor for another Coup attempt under a Combat Group.

Speaking of which, I assume, the AFP has the funding to arm every one of those airmen reassigned to such infantry-related duty? Will the Philippine Army even be willing to provide the rifles for those airmen in a rival service? Consider that some past offers of US Aid, aside from the Hueys, included refurbished M16s, so I wonder if the AFP has resources to arm that many airmen?

Speaking of which, does anyone here what percentage of the PAF is already in those ground combat units? Besides airbase security and specialized units?
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." - Henry Ford

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
- Winston Churchill


"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking"- Gen. George S. Patton
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gemini1
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QUOTE (israeli @ Jul 1 2006, 05:02 PM)
firing 12,000 PAF personnel will not be that easy. that would trigger an unrest that may cause something that many of us here are trying to avoid.

instead of trimming the number of PAF personnel from 17,000 down to just 5,000 to 8,000, we must think of ways to make good use of these 17,000 men and women
.

We dont need to fire those 12,000 personnels, The higher ups can make arragements to transfer those PAF excess to the other major services - army-navy/marines or even the PNP (was'nt there a news article before about the AFP planning to create another division size troops?) If this can be done while maintaing the same budget alloted for the Air force then surely they can use the excess funds to buy one or two new aircraft, if its not enough then use it for pilot training and or maintenace of existing air assets. (And that actually maybe the problem here, BUDGET! The other branch of service may oppose the transfer knowing that their own budget will be affected by this troop movement/transfer, but this is do-able and one sure-fire solution is to slice down the number of generals who just sits down in his office at GHQ doing nothing!


Quote:
 
Edwin
PAF dont have the most important asset which is combat aircraft other than old type of refurbished helicopter for many times.
Im just wondering if we are just wasting our money to an Air force that does'n have any important asset to handle other than thousand of personnel in the payroll. Peace to all. [/color]

:exactly: Can you imagine how bloated the PAF is? Not counting the pilots, how many men does it take to maintain an aircraft while on the ground? How many planes are ther in a squadron? at least 12 planes. Do we even have 12 broncos? or 12 SF211s? Yeah we may have a lot of choppers but still, 5000 airmen/women is more than enough to maintain all operational air assets we have.
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