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PAF as a COIN Air Force; How best it can earn every penny
Topic Started: Jun 24 2005, 06:07 AM (11,594 Views)
Tora^2
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Chowking
Jun 14 2006, 07:55 PM
here are some "third world" countries which seem to have a better Air Force than the Philippines:



What I meant by a 3rd World Airforce is not necessarily just an airforce belonging to a 3rd world country by definition.

I would define it as an airforce belonging to a 3rd world country whose assets (aircraft, facilities and personnel) can be sustainably be operated and maintained by the economy of such a country.

In other words, it is an airforce we can afford to operate within our means effectively especially with our numerous defense requirements, the state of our economy and knowing how screwed-up politics can get here no matter what system of government we have.
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Tora^2
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jammerjamesky,

Praying is not the only thing we can do.

Let us not forget that we still have elections next year (which will still push through despite rumors), which means, we have an opportunity to get rid of those a-hole senators and congressmen who do nothing but push their self-serving agenda and make money on the side.

I know those sh|theads would resort to a combination of showmanship and dirty tricks. But that doesn't mean you can't vote for the better person into office even if those f*cktards can win through the usual means
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Tora^2
Jun 14 2006, 05:19 PM
For now, I find following Latin American examples as most attractive.

The PAF's COIN and COIN-related airmobility capabilities should be designed for fighting a protracted long-term low-intensity campaign. This means the aircraft for this type of war should not only designed to be rugged and reliable it must be very cheap to operate so as not to be a huge burden on the budget. I'd rather not go for helos as the COIN workhorse transprt. STOL single-engine turboprops like PC6es have better range, speed and rough-field servicability.

As for it's airlift capabilities, the few C130s we have should only be delegated to heavylift and long-haul missions. They are to costly for us to operate on a regular basis. Most of the Herc's other missions would be given to medium lift 2-engine platforms. Ba67s would be a good idea if only we could get our hands on C47 airframes that are still in good condition. Otherwise CN235s are a better bet.

The LCA is to be our external defense workhorse of choice. They're cheaper than fighters and they can do as much. They can also be used for CAS if necessary. I'd go for the A50 or the L159. A reliable 2-engined MPA should also be procured like ATRs or CN235s. It goes without saying we should also upgrade our RADAR system. MRFs can supplement those LCAs in the future once our economy, political scene and internal security situation all stabilize

However, before all this, the PAF must take steps to further professionalize its ranks, get its ass out of politics and learn to be more wise in spending its budget

:agree: i agree! for me, columbia will be the best exaple for a 3rd world nation with a better equipped airforce. but! without US govt backing, they might not have this kind of airforce too (magiging pareho din sila sa atin). but again, they're the best example of a balanced airforce.

but, if you're really asking for a "3rd word nation" with a balance airforce, BANGLADESH will be a great example. she has a well balance and well armed airforce that can really defend the nation (pero kumporme pa rin sa geography, right?)

also, sir tora, if you're saying that "...would define it as an airforce belonging to a 3rd world country whose assets (aircraft, facilities and personnel) can be sustainably be operated and maintained by the economy of such a country" - STILL, my exaple would be BANGLADESH.

sirs jammerski and jedi knight, your opinions are right, BUT WE NEED TO TELL THOSE GUYS FROM CONGRESS, SENATE, DND, AFP-AF, AND THE PRESIDENT ITSELF THAT WE NEED A WELL BALANCED, WELL-ARMED, AND HIGHLY SUSTAINABLE AIRFORCE TO DEFND BOTH INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL THREATS. if there is no FORCE, this will surely have a lot of AIR only...
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Tora^2
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Yes, potentially we can afford to buy 1 or 1/2 a squadron of 2nd hand yet proven to be effective fighters like F16As or MiG29 Fulcrums if the CINC is willing to let go of all of the discretionary funds she enjoys in this reenacted budget and the other major services are made to endure budget cuts their US counterparts suffer in favor of the FA22, MV22 and FA35.

However, the keyword here is maintainability. What we need are systems that can afford to maintain and operate on a regular basis. What worth flashy fighter jets and attack helos if they stay in mothball because we can't afford to maintain them?

We can only afford to keep 4 high subsonic trainer jets with only marginal air defense capability operational!

What's more, the only thing that's keeping our 4 operational C130s (2 C130Bs, a C130H and an L100) is US Military Aid!
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MSantor
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Tora Tora. Yes, maintaining MRFs over the long run can be a pain but they're certainly worth it!

I'd rather cut everything else from the Air Force budget and put everything into not only buying those MRFs but also maintaining them for a good 30 years. That way we'll have one squadron of MRFs to form a true Air Force instead of one just focused on internal security. And certainly one that doesn't put its money into soldier/airman athletes, and an extensive base beautification program when there hardly any planes on the tarmac beside the grass being cut!

Suppose we do this:
1.) cut personnel to just the pilots and support personnel for the Helos, Hercs, OV10s as well as an MRF squadron
2.) Cut down personnel overall, including AFROTC instructors; reduce the number of Air Force commission slots available to PMA grads; set SMALLER quotas for the PAFFS
3.) Cut down the number of PAF ground combat groups or transfer to them to the Army
4.) reduce the number of generals to just one or two as well as their supporting staffs.
5.) REDUCE the Presidential Wing to just ONE PLANE; HELO travel will be provided to by any host helo unit in the province she visits.
6.) The Army and the Air Force should have the same logistics/supply chain to reduce redudancy
7.) All public works projects the PAF takes part in should be Army responsibility and thus the PAF should divest themselves of them.
8.) If the PAF will be on US Aid just to maintain those MRFs, then SO BE IT! It worked for South Korea until the economy improved and it continues to work for the Colombia. The Philippines should take the pragmatic approach and accept US Aid and kowtow to them until such and such time the the RP has the economy to support a more modern robust Air Force. But on the way to such a modern air force, the PAF should be able to deal with the lastest external threats as well, which can only be done through the acquisition of MRFs.

Come on- there's 17,000 Airmen! There's cut to be cuts somewhere! These personnel cuts would be just one thing that could help alleviate some budget shortfalls and provide money for MRF maintenance.

Any thoughts?
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el_commandante
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17,000 Airmen! My goodness! the privately operated air force in the US which has more fighter jets than our own air force probably has less than a fifty employee.

Msantor suggestion makes sense.

How many generals do we have in the PAF? even a Lt Col can run the whole PAF.
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israeli
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the AFP itself is a large employment agency by nature instead of a true military force. we can see such reality through its budgeting scheme which allocates about 60 to 80 percent of the "defense" budget merely on funding salaries and allowances while the remaining portion of the budget is the one actually going to maintenance and operation costs and purchase of new or surplus weapons and equipment.

streamlining the PAF and a much deeper study of how the PAF budgeting scheme can be "reversed" are the two probable solutions that could solve this particular problem. :dunno:


p.s.: i don't know if this one makes sense but given the fact that our country lies in one of the most volatile regions on planet earth (regional warlord China, North Korea posing a threat and the presence of a regional unit of Al Qaeda), don't you guys think that we should "strengthen" the 17,000-strong PAF through re-equipment and training instead of trimming down the number of officers and military and non-military personnel of the unit?
"To secure peace is to prepare for war." - Carl Von Clausewitz
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MSantor
Jun 29 2006, 03:04 PM
Tora Tora. Yes, maintaining MRFs over the long run can be a pain but they're certainly worth it!

I'd rather cut everything else from the Air Force budget and put everything into not only buying those MRFs but also maintaining them for a good 30 years. That way we'll have one squadron of MRFs to form a true Air Force instead of one just focused on internal security. And certainly one that doesn't put its money into soldier/airman athletes, and an extensive base beautification program when there hardly any planes on the tarmac beside the grass being cut!

Suppose we do this:
1.) cut personnel to just the pilots and support personnel for the Helos, Hercs, OV10s as well as an MRF squadron
2.) Cut down personnel overall, including AFROTC instructors; reduce the number of Air Force commission slots available to PMA grads; set SMALLER quotas for the PAFFS
3.) Cut down the number of PAF ground combat groups or transfer to them to the Army
4.) reduce the number of generals to just one or two as well as their supporting staffs.
5.) REDUCE the Presidential Wing to just ONE PLANE; HELO travel will be provided to by any host helo unit in the province she visits.
6.) The Army and the Air Force should have the same logistics/supply chain to reduce redudancy
7.) All public works projects the PAF takes part in should be Army responsibility and thus the PAF should divest themselves of them.
8.) If the PAF will be on US Aid just to maintain those MRFs, then SO BE IT! It worked for South Korea until the economy improved and it continues to work for the Colombia. The Philippines should take the pragmatic approach and accept US Aid and kowtow to them until such and such time the the RP has the economy to support a more modern robust Air Force. But on the way to such a modern air force, the PAF should be able to deal with the lastest external threats as well, which can only be done through the acquisition of MRFs.

Come on- there's 17,000 Airmen! There's cut to be cuts somewhere! These personnel cuts would be just one thing that could help alleviate some budget shortfalls and provide money for MRF maintenance.

Any thoughts?

:agree: yes sir msantor i totally agree!! i agree with your suggestions. i think the airforce should do some reduction from their ranks and have a major re-organization within the PAF so that their annual cost will be reduced!, with this savings they will have the money to "maintain" and "refurbish" aircraft and equipment needed to deal with INTERNAL THREATS, then, after several years (hopefully) they may purchase aircraft and equipment to deal with EXTERNAL THREATS, right?

ha?? 17,000 personnel on such a SMALL airforce! my golly! what would our pilots do if PAF is short of aircrafts? make and fly paper airplanes???
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Tora^2
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Yes, the PAF does need serious reallignments in its budgets and in the utilization of its 17000 personnel.

For instance, we should reassign personnel like my personal favorite targets of criticism, airmen-athletes, to more crucial roles like Civic-Military Ops in Insurgency-affected areas, Forward Air Controllers for more effective coordination with Ground Forces or to train as maintenance personnel for Hueys.

We should also pull out AF Special Ops personnel from bodyguard/chauffeur duty for VIPs (especially for rich folks who have PAF Colonels and Generals as friends) to do what they were trained for.



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jammerjamesky
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Nagtaka pa kayo!

Take for example the batangas province.. Sino ba ang lead AFP agency guarding the Peace and Order in that area secondary lang ang presence ng Philippine Army. Dba Philippine Air Force? Air Commando's or PAF foot soldiers.

I assume that most of the 25-30 % are foot soldiers already. Thats what i have been hearing from my former commandant (5th Air Reserve particulary in Cebu)in 1999 that 25-30% are air commandos or foot soldier guarding airports and other related vital installation.

I think they must act now to reduce in this area. they better concentrate on other key areas such as air controller, data gathering and management or intel area, pilot training.

Remember also that most of the PAF personnel are being given a term "Airmen/Airwoman".
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