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PAF as a COIN Air Force; How best it can earn every penny
Topic Started: Jun 24 2005, 06:07 AM (11,596 Views)
possible
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no dream, dude. it's a requirement

possible
Jun 24 2005, 06:07 AM
Quote:
 
The air force capability upgrade will focus on projects designed to develop and sustain airlift, air strike, surveillance, ground support and medical evacuation capabilities.

http://www.dnd.gov.ph

if the PAF's going to spend several million dollars worth of taxpayer's money to upgrade its capabilities, it might as well try to hit as many birds with one stone as possible :aberet:

a lesson from the past, on the merits of thinking long-term: back in the late eighties, the PAF held a competition to select a new trainer aircraft, as everyone knows the winner was the SIAI-Marchetti S-211. this is the aircraft that the then-incumbent chose the S-211 over

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CASA C-101 AVIOJET/ENAER A-36 HALCON

The design was for a conventional low-wing, unswept wings, semi-monocoque aircraft. Of particular attention is the design of the wing, which is a specially-designed NorCASA-15 section, having 5° dihedral and a thickness:cord ratio of 15%. This allows for a deep wing with good fuel capacity in its integral tanks, avoiding the need for wet pylons. This design choice was made possible by the decision to keep the aircraft resolutely under the speed of sound.

Another interesting design decision was the use of a civilian high bypass turbofan as the engine, in the form of a Garrett AirResearch TFE731. While this decision implies not a good high altitude performance and a much better low altitude and low speed performance, when it is combined with the wing design it allows for very long legs and endurance. This made the Ministerio del Aire requirement to reach the Islas Canarias without refuelling easy to meet as well as allowing for an extraordinary 7 hours of endurance. Another benefit of a high bypass turbofan is the lower IR signature of the aircraft in despite of the exhaust location.

Sometime at the end of 1978, during the peak of the Diferendo Austral crisis with Argentina, the Fuerza Aérea de Chile (FACh) began the search for a replacement of both the Cessna T-37 Dragonfly and the Cessna A-37 Dragonfly. These aircraft performed the 120-hours advanced training course, the 110-hours weapons training course and the COIN and tactical support roles. The new aircraft had to have a performance superior to the Dragonflies as well as to allow some level of local manufacture in order to support the local industry and minimise the potential effects of future arms embargoes.

The FACh evaluation committee was really impressed by the Aviojet robustness, visibility, weapons load, technology level and, especially, by the extraordinary endurance, which was very welcome in a long country like Chile. Other factors, like the potential for growth, the use of a civilian, and not embargoable, engine and the possibility of inking a reciprocal agreement covering the purchase by Spain of 40 ENAER T-35 Pillán tipped the scales in favour of the CASA C-101 Aviojet.

But to replace the Cessna A-37 Dragonfly the FACh needed an even more powerful version of the engine in order to power a dedicated attack model. The Garret AirResearch TFE-731-5-1J engine was selected. Rated at 1,950 kgf, with a 5" Military Power Reserve (MPR) of 2,132 kgf, this engine provided ample power to the Aviojet. This newer version was called CASA C-101CC-02 Aviojet model by the manufacturer and ENAER A-36 Halcón by the FACh. Other changes included the addition of a, simple but effective, Saab RGS.2 lead computing optical gunsight and the use of the DEFA 553 30 mm centreline pack, with 130 rounds and a 1,200 rounds/minute fire rate.

The next development of the Halcón was the dedicated maritime strike version known as the A-36M. The goal was to allow the FACh the option to conduct fire and forget ASM attacks against enemy ships using the British Aerospace Sea Eagle. While the deployment of an ASM like the Sea Eagle from a non-radar bearing aircraft is rather unusual it is not impossible, it's just not very practical. This kind of missiles needs to be fed the location of the target as well as its own just prior to the launch. If the carrier has a reasonably accurate inertial navigation system and it is fed the target's location obtained through other mechanisms, this schema can be workable. To this end the FACh planned to use the Beechcraft 99A Petrel Alfa to locate the targets at sea. Halcón 413 (C/N 90), which had been the CASA C-101CC Aviojet prototype was once more modified with the addition of a Ferranti FIN 2000 INS and a Ferranti 4510 HUD. Aerodynamic dummies of the British Aerospace Sea Eagle were used in 1985 to perform operational testing, but, in the end, this version was not purchased by the FACh.

Inter service rivalries with the Navy, which did not want to relinquish the air attack role over the sea and the fact that the mode of operation was rather complex were the main reasons for the cancellation of the project. The Navy bought 8 Eurocopter AS.332 Cougar armed with the famous AM-39 Exocet to fulfil this role. Another side effect was that ENAER did learn a lot about navigation and attack avionics' integration.

ENAER pursued the development of the Halcón with a much optimised version dedicated to the attack role, the Halcón II. This new standard was based on the MAESTRO navattack suite developed by SAGEM and in service with the FACh in the form of the SABCA Mirage 5M Elkán, as part of the original MirSIP upgrade.

The Halcón II upgrade has per objectives to facilitate advanced pilot training to operational procedures of latest technology aircraft and to improve weapons delivery in both air-to-air and air-to-ground missions.

Future developments of the basic Halcón II could take two possible roads. First, currently the aircraft cannot handle maximum weapons & fuel loads at the same time since this would put the aircraft very much overweight and the landing gear will not bear the load. The addition of an air-to-air refuelling capability would allow the aircraft to take-off with full weapons load, go to top-off with an orbiting tanker and then fly its mission profile to maximum radius, very much in the way the USAF used the Cessna A-37 Dragonfly during the Vietnam War when the Dragonfly would circle after having topped-off from a tanker until the next request for CAS would arrive, allowing for very short reaction times. The second possible future development should be the addition of a RWR and a chaff/flare dispenser, which the Halcón II seems to be currently lacking and are very much in need in a modern combat zone. The writer actually expected to see the DTS Caiquén II and DTS Eclipse systems of the recently retired Hawker Siddeley Hunter to be retrofitted to the Halcón II.

http://www.lamilitary.com, http://www.fach-extraoficial.com

my friends, i think the excerpted article speaks for itself. so draw your own conclusions while I go :headbang:

and now for something completely different: get a load of this. again, draw your own conclusions.


War. What is it good for?--James Brown

What's love got to do with it?--Tina Turner

Only the intelligent are brave.
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Manokski
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This has been discussed before - the Stavatti is a paper airplane. All they have to show so far is a nice site and nice graphics.

They however were not the originator of the idea.

Check out the Scaled Composites website

http://www.scaled.com/projects/ares.html

Note: Scaled composites is Burt Rutans Company, the designers and manufacturers of Spaceship one.

ARES

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Manokski's ORBAT www.HueyBravo.net
Manokski's Orbat
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possible
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Manokski, didn't know that the SM-27 had been dissed here before, but it's certainly obvious that quote-unquote "Stavatti Military Aerospace" ain't exactly in the same league as Lockheed Martin: like I said, everyone is entitled to draw their own conclusions, including the most obvious one... :aberet:


War. What is it good for?--James Brown

What's love got to do with it?--Tina Turner

Only the intelligent are brave.
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Austronesian
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israeli
Jun 26 2005, 08:01 PM
* A-4 Skyhawk

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* A-7 Corsair II

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* surplus German Alpha Jet As

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This weapon are obsolete. I won't waste my time and money for this. They are quite effective on the 60's and 70's mission tactics but the Philippine geostrategic shifts a lot to the cuurent strategic status. Example defeating the insurgent thru multi-bombing tactics but the public is highly reactive on the mishaps ( Private property, cilivians, too much firepower over Small Lethal weapons). We have this equivalent types during the heights of the PAF during 60's, but still not able to defeat the insurgency. This won't last in 2 minutes against a hypotetical Chinese aggression. Even the United States came to the rescue, It will be a permanent black eye in the history of the PAF in a humiliating defeat in just 2 mins or so.
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brassballs
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Super Tucano I think is an appropriate platform for COIN and coastal patrol.Since our PAF tech. crew are also very good in maintaining a prop driven plane.
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phichanad
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brassballs
Jul 25 2005, 02:51 PM
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Super Tucano I think is an appropriate platform for COIN and coastal patrol.Since our PAF tech. crew are also very good in maintaining a prop driven plane.

AAM on a prop plane??/hmmm.....cheap alternative to replace F-5 for Air to Air missions.... hehehe wawa nman tlaga PAF....
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Makati City, Metro Manila - the place to be!!!
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Rubentador
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expert says if we do not have a anti ship missile frigates our navy will continued to be ignored by ou enemies.

so

if we lack the supersonic tech in our inventory our airforce will be ignored also

na alala nyo ba ung insidente sa spratly nung magkasalubong ung 2 fighter planes ng malaysia at isang eroplano ntin buti na lang nangyari kc iniignore lang tau ng malaysia. ung vietname nga eh tinitira tau ng anti airgun nila sa spratly isipin nyo na lang kung seryoso ung vietnam no, anti air missile ang dedeploy nila dun wawa tau. isipin nyo natuto ung mga milf na gumawa ng small anti air missile edi bagsak agad yang mga tora tora ntin.

dapat multirole fighter na lang para tipid kya nga tinawag na multi eh...

i suggest a Grippen MRF
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Tora^2
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When people look unto the USAF with its Stealth fighters and UAVs as the future of their country's airforce. Many of our neighbors build an airforce along those lines where 1st -line jets dominate the flightline.

This is not true for many airforces of developing countries, us included, who do not have the budget to sustain such fleets and their bureacucracies (in the military and in the civil government) are saddled with corruption and politicking keep development at snail's pace.

We will have to build an airforce that may not have cutting edge equipment but is highly mission-capable.

Going New Zealand (abolishing combat units) seems to be the most viable option for the PAF to cut costs. However, we are not as remote as that British Commonwealth and we have China and an insurgency to worry.

This thread is not only about low-cost combat aircraft and other systems but about ways the PAF still be highly capable despite low defense politics and having to serve a government laden with partisan politics and corruption
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pj_aranda
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That's the right way for PAF to go. as I see it, it's so huge for a force that operates less than a hundred aircraft. Also its not what they have but it's about how they use their assets
you will never make me sing "internationale"
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MSantor
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If you're going to "go New Zealand" and still keep the current focus on COIN, then the PAF might as well buy more heavy lift transports- preferrably up to 20 Hercs- which could prove quite useful in shifting troops from one area of the archipelago to another, though this could be out of the reach of the current budget. Still, let's face it, having 3 Hercs for transport capability is pathetic considering the PAF used to have a regular shuttle service using Hercs between bases in the Northern and Southern parts of the islands. I don't put much faith in smaller transports and so-called "liasion craft"; the less variety in transport airframes, the better (no need to train technicians to service each kind of plane and the supply chain will simplified if one only needed to buy parts for one kind of plane). The Hercs would do wonders if there were more of them, especially since they themselves can also do other missions aside from transport, including maritime patrol as well as CAS, if they were armed like USAF Spectre gunships I mean.

The current acquisition of hand-me-down Hueys from the US and other sources may also be a practical choice given realities of the RP. but perhaps having more modern multi-role helos such as British Lynxes, Canadian Griffons or even attack helicopters like Italian Mangustas or even Polish Hinds will help the PAF attain GMA's goal of wiping out the NPA and other insurgencies within ten years.

Still, regardless of the current focus on COIN, I still think that letting down on external defense is a BAD idea, since Tora Tora pointed out himself that the Philippines is not located in an isolated place like New Zealand and the RP's many neighbors can also be potential adversaries. It would be a threat that a first-line MRF would be well suited to address.
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." - Henry Ford

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