Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Philippines Defense Forces Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
PAF as a COIN Air Force; How best it can earn every penny
Topic Started: Jun 24 2005, 06:07 AM (11,597 Views)
City Hunter
Member
[ *  *  * ]
Kung natuloy lang yun Cali/Pinto projects noon o kahit yun ginawang eroplano ng namatay na ATO officer hindi na natin kailangan bumili pa sa mga dayuhan. Still, yun Czech plane is nice. That streamlined replacement for the T38 is nice too. Props are a good choice for close support sa ground troops. I recall on Manokski's page mayroon crop duster variant pa na suggested.
Command is about authority, about appointment to a position. Effective leadership is different. It must be learned and practiced in order for it to rise to the level of art. You must love those you lead before you can be an effective leader. You can certainly command without that sense of commitment but you cannot lead without it; and without leadership, command is a hollow experience. .. a vacuum often filled with mistrust and ignorance.

Gen. Eric K. Shinseki
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
datu
Member
[ *  *  * ]
possible
Jun 25 2005, 08:53 AM
datu
Jun 25 2005, 02:20 AM
It is also suggested that the light strike variant of the KT-1 will feature capability similar to the ALX, but i havent seen a picture or details of it yet.

i'm not sure, is this it?

Posted Image

Bingo... XKO. Too bad it does not have the wing mounted .50caliber guns of the ALX.

City Hunter said:
"I recall on Manokski's page mayroon crop duster variant pa na suggested."

Actually it is Opus's site. The Vigilante. Armored, 11 hardpoints, 4,000+ load capacity, 7-hour endurance. US State Department bought them and uses them for drug erradication in countries with drug crops, amongst the beneficiaries but not the least, our ASEAN brothers Thailand and Burma.


"F*ck it, Dude. Let's go bowling."
---The Big Lebowski
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
City Hunter
Member
[ *  *  * ]
Ooops. Thanks for the correction!
Command is about authority, about appointment to a position. Effective leadership is different. It must be learned and practiced in order for it to rise to the level of art. You must love those you lead before you can be an effective leader. You can certainly command without that sense of commitment but you cannot lead without it; and without leadership, command is a hollow experience. .. a vacuum often filled with mistrust and ignorance.

Gen. Eric K. Shinseki
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
israeli
Member Avatar


as posted in Opus' website:

http://www.timawa.net/modernization-paf.htm


AYRES V-1-A Vigilante as COIN Aircraft

"But it's a crop-duster!!"

Yes... but it's armored, can carry 4,200 lbs of weapons, can stay airborne for 7 hours, and is highly responsive since crop-dusters have to be able to avoid telephone lines and vehicles at the ends of fields when they make their low-level runs. It is also cheap, uncomplicated and easy to maintain.

In the 1980s the United States faced a worsening drug problem and adopted a policy of spraying coca plantations in South America and parts of Asia through the US State Department in cooperation with the respective countries' governments. Surplus OV-10 Broncos were modified and used for these roles but the growers threw considerable resources against them, including machine guns, anti-aircraft cannon and even shoulder launched anti-aircraft missiles. It was later realized that the Broncos were vulnerable in the high-threat, low altitude environments they had to operate in. There were also problems integrating the various ducts and spray-bars to the Bronco and the resulting drag compromised performance and degraded handling.

In the interim, the US State Department approached Ayres Corporation of Albany, GA to help develop a new "drug eradicator." Ayres specialized in making crop-dusters and owned the rights to the Rockwell Thrush Commander. The resulting aircraft, rolled out in 1983, used an uprated Pratt and Whitney PT6A-65AG turbine engine offering 1,376 hp driving a 9-foot-3-inch five bladed propeller and had an armored two-seat dual control cockpit, an armored back-up fuel tank and provisions for sophisticated communications and navigation equipment. Nine aircraft were delivered to the US State Department inder the designation Turbo-Thrush S2R-T65/5400 NEDS (Narcotics Eradication Delivery System) and were reportedly used in Burma, Thailand, Columbia, Mexico, Guatemala, and Belize.

The US State Department and the US Army Electro-Optical Survivability Program funded development of a modified NEDS for strike duties. The resulting aircraft, dubbed Ayres V-1-A Vigilante, was identical to the NEDS except that it was equipped to carry weapons instead of spraying equipment. There are 11 hardpoints (four under each wing and three tandem pylons under the fuselage) with a combined ordnance capacity of 4,200 lbs, possible weapon fits including 2.75-in. folding-fin aerial rocket pods, napalm canisters, Stinger missiles and a variety of bombs. The aircraft can also be fitted with a variety of surveillance equipment including FLIR an LLTV night vision cameras, video recorders and digital data-links for transmitting images to ground stations.

The US Border Patrol successfully tested the Vigilante in the nocturnal border-surveilance role but funding for the aircraft was not available and the program ended.

The NEDS and Vigilante have a maximum spead of 250 mph and an economical cruising speed of 170 mph. Stall speed with flaps extended is 58 mph. With light loads the aircraft can take-off in 395 ft. Fully-loaded it will take off in 1,250 ft.

The Vigilante is said to cost only $1 million each and has an existing worldwide support network, since over 2,500 Thrush crop-dusters have been sold to over 65 countries. An added benefit to using the Vigilante in COIN duties is its low political visibility. It is harder to for the propaganda arm of an insurgent group to demonize before the world press a low-tech modified crop duster than purpose-built military aircraft. The type is also simple enough and may be suited for local production, both for internal security and in the aircraft's primary configuration for agricultural spraying and aerial fire fighting.


- maybe the Vigilante will be a good COIN platform but we really want a real ground attack plane, then we must consider the following aircraft:

* A-4 Skyhawk

Posted Image

* A-7 Corsair II

Posted Image

* surplus German Alpha Jet As

Posted Image
"To secure peace is to prepare for war." - Carl Von Clausewitz
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
edwin
Member
[ *  *  * ]
For Air Strike, pwede na siguro yung A-10 Thunderbolt. Considering the firepower, survivality and payload.

check the link below:
http://www.milavia.net/aircraft/a-10/a-10.htm
Posted Image
It is difficult to say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and reality of tomorrow.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rogerpopee
Unregistered
Guests

How about the T2C Buckeye which has external provisions for armaments? Or the T38A Talon specifically its AT38B version which also has provisions for armaments and can cost as low as US$800,000.00 more or less?
Quote Post Goto Top
 
21Scorpio
Member
[ *  *  * ]
if we want a true ground attack for our PAF then lets get the AMX.. :fire:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
possible
Member Avatar
Member
[ *  *  * ]
Posted Image

http://www.raytheonaircraft.com

21st century Tora-Tora?



War. What is it good for?--James Brown

What's love got to do with it?--Tina Turner

Only the intelligent are brave.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Frenzy
Member Avatar
Member
[ *  *  * ]
Wow, that bird looks mean.

I would call that the hotshot mudfighter's wetdream.

If we can only afford that...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
datu
Member
[ *  *  * ]
Beautiful and meanlooking. Still lacks the wing-mounted .50caliberMG of the ALX.

According to the raytheon site:

Quote:
 
Customers can choose their level of cockpit sophistication with a number of options for both navigation and weapons training. The T-6B is now available for order.


Which might explain the fluxuations of price according to FlugReview:

Quote:
 
Flyaway cost claimed as 5,41 million US Dollars over US production run, at 1998 values. Same figure was 3,4 million US-Dollars at 1996 values.
The T-6B with improved avionics was estimated to cost
6,2 million US Dollars in July 2004.
Total programme cost for US Air Force and US Navy was once estimated at 3,948 billion US-Dollars (then-year Dollars). This would lead to an average systems price of 5 million US-Dollars.
A batch of 59 T-6As ordered in April 2001 for USAF and US Navy was priced at 148,3 million US-Dollars (2,51 million US-Dollars per aircraft).
The two additional T-6A-1 for NFTC were priced at 11,6 million US-Dollars in 2002, including support.
The USAF fact sheet of 2003 claims a unit cost of 4,272 million US-Dollars.


Might as well get cheapest A version and locally modify them with the 6/7 hardpoints when they are delivered, saves money that way. The PAF's SF-260TP and S.211 are like that. But that would mean the ground attack avionics would not come with the aircraft...standard with the ALX.

Still a great plane, like all planes...that are nice to dream over.


"F*ck it, Dude. Let's go bowling."
---The Big Lebowski
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Philippine Air Force · Next Topic »
Add Reply