| Welcome to Philippines Defense Forces Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| PAF as a COIN Air Force; How best it can earn every penny | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 24 2005, 06:07 AM (11,586 Views) | |
| possible | Jun 24 2005, 06:07 AM Post #1 |
|
Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
according to the DND Secretary
the PAF component of the Capability Upgrade
Air Strike can be performed by either rotary or fixed-wing aircraft, already a thread for attack helos so here are some options for fixed-wing attack aircraft ![]() Super Tucano/ALX Brazilian-made advanced trainer with full attack capability. armoured cockpit, provision for underbelly FLIR, Elbit avionics, precision guided munitions, powerful P&W PT6 engine. since it's a trainer, can replace our aging...ok, aged SF-260/260TPs, two birds with one stone. pricey, though: $5 mil each. ![]() L159A/ALCA another combo trainer/attack aircraft contender from the Czech Republic. developed from the Warsaw Pact favorite Aero Vodochody L59, which humiliated Hawks and Alpha Jets during NATO exchange visits. powered by an ITEC F124 turbofan, the non-afterburning version of the RoCAF Ching Kuo's F125. radar is an Italian FIAR Grifo-L, lightweight version of the one installed on the RSAF's upgraded F-5S, which allows ALCA to use antiship missiles. interestingly
probably to do with funding the Gripen deal. reported price of a brand-new ALCA is less than $10 million, so the price of a used one would be? worth looking into...
|
|
War. What is it good for?--James Brown What's love got to do with it?--Tina Turner Only the intelligent are brave. | |
![]() |
|
| 21Scorpio | Jun 24 2005, 09:33 AM Post #2 |
|
Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
The PAF is on right track with these planes. Good choice. I really wanted to see PAF having these Tucano's nad L159 advance trainer and attack aircraft. |
![]() |
|
| flipzi | Jun 24 2005, 02:07 PM Post #3 |
|
R-A-T-S
![]()
|
![]() ![]() L159A main features Multi-Mode Pulse Doppler Radar Advanced Human/Machine Interface wit Head-Up Display (HUD), Multi-Function Colour Display (MFCD) and Hands-On-Throttle-And-Stick (HOTAS) controls Avionics Integration based on MIL-STD-1553 databus Accurate and autonomous navigation system with laser gyro based Inertial Navigation System (INS) and Global Positioning System (GPS) Extensive in-flight recording and debriefing capability for video, audio, self-protection system, engine and aircraft parameters On-condition maintenance and fatigue monitoring system for low operational cost and optimum use of aircraft service life On-Board Oxygen Generating System (OBOGS), On-Board Inert Gas Generating System (OBIGGS) and Auxiliary Power Unit (APU) for self-contained operation with minimum support Seven pylons for various stores Ability to operate from semi-prepared airfields "Best in its class" F124-GA-100 engine Self-protection system installation and use of redundant systems for high level of survivability and flight safety Multi Mission Flexibility in a Single Airframe Air Interdiction Close Air Support Anti-Ship Missions Air Defence Counter Insurgency Border Patrol Tactical Reconnaissance Main Operational Benefits of the L159 Design Wide range of NATO compatible stores Enhanced survivability Superior handling qualities and high trust-to weight ratio Advanced Human-Machine Interface State-of-the-art systems and equipment Data loading and recording systems support effective mission planning and debriefing Ability to operate from semi-prepared airfields Low acquisition and operational costs L159A Basic Data ===================================================== Wow This plane can also be a good pick for our Interim MRF.
|
![]() " Sovereignty resides in the people and all government authority emanates from them! - Art. II Sec 1, Philippine Constitution " " People don't care what we know until they know we care. " getflipzi@yahoo.com | |
![]() |
|
| israeli | Jun 24 2005, 02:21 PM Post #4 |
![]()
|
the Czechs are actually planning to sell majority of their 72 L159As and retain only a few of the planes for their Air Force. as for the tandem-seater L159Bs, the Czechs only have two of the aircraft (which means that if we want L159Bs, we will have to BUY from Aero Vodochody L159Bs).
we better get the L159s before the Czechs reconsider the idea of transferring the aircraft to SLOVAKIA. * as for the EMB-314 Super Tucano, it can be a great replacement for the OV-10 Bronco.
|
| "To secure peace is to prepare for war." - Carl Von Clausewitz | |
![]() |
|
| saver111 | Jun 24 2005, 07:01 PM Post #5 |
|
PDFF Moderator
![]()
|
Aero Vodochody offers licence to produce L-159 combat aircraft Aero Vodochody, the largest Czech aircraft maker, will offer licenced production of the L-159 light combat aircraft to foreign companies, it was reported Wednesday. It is believed that the sale will help boost competitiveness, it was said. A successful sale will make Aero the first aircraft producer ever to hand over documentation for military aircraft production to a foreign firm after the fall of the Iron Curtain. "We have preliminarily selected countries where we could sell the licence," Aero president Antonin Jakubse said. Milan Holl, director of the Czech Association of the Aviation Manufacturers ALV, said that China and a number of other developing countries would be interested in the licence. The Industry and Trade Ministry has approved Aero's plan to offer the licence abroad. "We have obtained detailed information on that," the ministry's spokesman Ivo Mravinac said. So far, Aero has entered into talks on the aircraft's sale with 13 companies, and has offered several of them licenced production. "The talks have just started. They [the companies] have not expressed their stances yet," Jakubse said, but would not say which countries are among the potential buyers. The state, which controls Aero, is planning to sell the company. Jakubse said he hopes the government finds a buyer by mid-2006 at the latest. One of the conditions of the tender is that the state has to sell Aero as a whole. Another condition is that the tender must secure L-159 repair and maintenance services for the Czech army, which will continue to use the aircraft after Aero's privatisation. Jakubse said that both foreign and Czech companies have shown interest in Aero, but would not disclose their names. http://www.flysouth.co.za/news/2005-06-17/...0aircraft.shtml |
|
Justice for Daniel Lorenz Jacinto HELP END PIRACY NOW!: http://www.itfseafarers.org/petition.cfm | |
![]() |
|
| knightshade | Jun 25 2005, 01:44 AM Post #6 |
|
Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
The Airforce should get their hands into this before its too late again. This plane is versatile and suits our need for an interim aircraft w/c can be used for training and light attack, also the price and maintenance cost..act PAF!
|
| The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke -Tears of the Sun | |
![]() |
|
| datu | Jun 25 2005, 02:20 AM Post #7 |
|
Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
If funding is there, I wouldnt mind having a few more of these...?:![]() Possible planes with ALX's capabilities. KO-1, XKO, or KT-1C, the armed CAS/FAC version of the KT-1 trainer in service with both South Korea and Indonesia. There have been rumors the South Koreans are negotiating with PAF for these, that was a while ago however. includes: -OBOGS -HUD, and fighter-like cockpit -centerline FLIR -5 hardpoints, 4 if centerline is for FLIR pod -carry large assortment of stores This version being developed is said to be like the ALX. South Korean examples, not the KO-1,XKO, or the KT-1C variant, ![]() ![]() Indonesian examples ![]() ![]() JPATS/(A)T-6 Texan ii- -6 hardpoints, plus centerline -B model includes advanced cockpit, but CAS aircraft, cheapest and most rugged as possible -costs in between $3-$6million ![]() ---I only put this since "external pressures" might force countries to get it. Example, the Dominican Republic has chosen the Super Tucano for its new border patrol/COIN/advanced training aircraft, 10 were announced to be bought. US has alot of influence on Dominican Republic military and untimately US pressure to get the armed AT-6 TexanII forced the deal with the Super Tucano to stall and is currently deadlocked. Think back to the PAF, the US has alot of influence within the PAF...fill in the rest. I would've said keep the SF-260TP since the PAF has been getting them or their predecesors since the 60s, heck local companies can rebuild these aircraft, so logistics is plus. But for armed missions, it does not compare with today's armed trainers. Biggest drawback is the lack of ejection seats, also consider the side-by-side pilot seating, which is different from piloting a real fighter or jet trainer. ---Interesting to note here is that the ALX, unlike the Super Tucano, KT-1, TexanII, Redigos, SF-260, or most trainers that can be armed for light strike, the ALX was designed specifically for light strike/attack missions. ALX has internally mounted .50caliber guns. This is useful since this means that the ALX does not need to mount gun pods, freeing up the 4 hardpoints. The ALX has israeli-designed attack computer making targetting easier. ALX has kevlar-lined cockpit for pilot protection. It is also suggested that the light strike variant of the KT-1 will feature capability similar to the ALX, but i havent seen a picture or details of it yet. Notice it or not, the KT-1, TexanII, Super Tucano, PC-9 use the same engine, while the ALX uses a new more powerful engine. If only funding was there. |
|
"F*ck it, Dude. Let's go bowling." ---The Big Lebowski | |
![]() |
|
| possible | Jun 25 2005, 08:44 AM Post #8 |
|
Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
might in fact be better for the PAF to get the Texan, it being the American services’ standard trainer. the KO-1 is also attractive since Korea’s (and maybe Indonesia’s) proximity helps as far as maintenance is concerned. obviously, the Philippines has to decide what’s best considering the funding available.
me too, but even assuming the PAF gets 1/3 of the $600 million budgeted, to meet all of the Capability Upgrade Plan's requirements i think there’s no way it can afford both the ALX and the ALCA. so, choose…
assuming the ALCA is chosen, the PAF can at most get only 10 or 12, at least two of which need to be two-seaters. since L-159Bs are not immediately available, it can make do with “borrowed” Czech L-59s as a stopgap. looking at the price of brand-new L-159s
to afford a pair or two of bnew two-seaters, the PAF can save by leaving-out the radar and less-needed electronics, the space in the trainer’s nose converted into a modular equipment bay, which can take a FLIR/long range camera combo for recon, or FLIR/laser for strike, or just a pair of machine guns. the PAF puts the single-seaters to work asap, it waits two years for the two-seaters and sends back the L-59s, meanwhile the streamlining of the PAF organization under the PDR program generates results in savings and improved aircraft availability. four years later, the startup six-year phase of the PDR ends, assuming it achieves its objectives and the economy improves, the PAF starts the next phase, a new set of priorities including the upgrade of the PAF’s training assets, time to get ALXs or Texans to retire the SF-260s, to replace the S-211s the PAF finally acquires (or licence-produces?) a full squadron of L-159 two-seaters as lead-in fighter trainers, its now-veteran ALCA pilots becoming instructors for further batches of flyers. only then does the PAF buy MRFs. |
|
War. What is it good for?--James Brown What's love got to do with it?--Tina Turner Only the intelligent are brave. | |
![]() |
|
| possible | Jun 25 2005, 08:49 AM Post #9 |
|
Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
or the PAF gets the ALX and retires or re-roles the SF-260 and the OV-10. the first phase of the PDR rolls on...midway into the second phase (10 years from now), the PAF needs a lead-in fighter trainer to replace the S-211 and it also requires MRFs. it looks at its budget and at what's available in the market ![]() large pic T-50 Golden Eagle the Golden Eagle has the aerodynamics of the F-16 and the engine of the Gripen. Lockheed-Martin designed the wings and FBW flight controls and is positioning it as an USAF T-38 replacement. the T-50 is an lead-in fighter trainer while the A-50 will have radar and full combat capability. clearly, this is the 21st century's version of the F-5. price: $15-22 million. the competition ![]() EADS Mako according to armada international, the Mako's claimed radar cross setion is one square meter at 44 kilometers, so it's a stealth aircraft. the engine will be the GE F414 from the Super Hornet, licence-built by Volvo, a derated version going into the High Energy Advanced Trainer version, while the Light Combat Aircraft gets the full-rated powerplant. try matching this with BVRAAMs, this is a serious MRF. my take on the slow development: the Europeans do not want to kill sales of the Typhoon, they’re waiting for the F-35 to come online before unleashing the Mako LCA to undercut the F-35 pricewise, the Typhoon by then having received its full multirole capabilities to take on the F-35 at the high end. right now, the Typhoon is touted at $80+ million, the F-35 at $50-70 million, the Mako at $20-25 million. definitely worth waiting for. what does the PAF address today: its SF-260s and OV-10s aching for replacement, or its almost non-existent jet fleet. choose with an eye to the future. decisions, decisions...
|
|
War. What is it good for?--James Brown What's love got to do with it?--Tina Turner Only the intelligent are brave. | |
![]() |
|
| possible | Jun 25 2005, 08:53 AM Post #10 |
|
Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
i'm not sure, is this it?
|
|
War. What is it good for?--James Brown What's love got to do with it?--Tina Turner Only the intelligent are brave. | |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Philippine Air Force · Next Topic » |





![]](http://z1.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)


















8:39 AM Jul 11