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MG520's best configuration(for PAF use)?; missiles, etc.
Topic Started: Jul 17 2004, 04:03 PM (9,027 Views)
saver111
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tirad
Mar 24 2006, 12:24 AM
Undergoing testing: Hellfire Junior 2.75" laser-guided rocket...

news: www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/...0&sc=400
thread: http://pdff.sytes.net/index.php?showtopic=3206

Quote:
 
ORLANDO, FL, March 1, 2006 -- Lockheed Martin yesterday conducted a successful ground-launched medium-range guided test vehicle (GTV) flight of the “HELLFIRE® Junior” missile it is offering for the U.S. government’s Advanced Precision Kill Weapon System (APKWS) II requirement.
...
“The rocket hit the target board 2.8 kilometers downrange and the impact was less than half a meter from the laser spot designation,” said Steve Barnoske, director - Tactical Missiles at Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control.
....
The APKWS II is a 2.75-inch laser-guided rocket that will provide crews of the U.S. Army Apache and Marine Corps Cobra attack helicopters and other platforms with precision-strike capability against targets that do not require a 7-inch HELLFIRE missile—an option not presently available. This low-cost alternative will destroy non-armored targets that are close to civilian assets and/or friendly forces.

(Will naturally require a laser designator; maybe something like FLIR Systems' Brite Star II, a combination FLIR/color-TV-camera/laser rangefinder-target designator to be installed on the ARH (Kiowa Warrior replacement) and UH-1Y.)

So they had it already. That requirement of a medium size or junior missile was their answer to those precision strikes they are doing against identified terrorist lairs wherein they could not avoid destroying nearby houses of civilians thus creating so much collateral damages. Same with close-in support to friendly forces.

They were always correct in stating that they only hit the targets, but the impact of those explosions actually affected if not destroyed houses of lightly built materials, making reports of media regarding civilians killed also correct.
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tirad
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saver111
Mar 24 2006, 12:11 PM
tirad
Mar 24 2006, 12:24 AM
Undergoing testing: Hellfire Junior 2.75" laser-guided rocket...

news: www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/...0&sc=400
thread: http://pdff.sytes.net/index.php?showtopic=3206

Quote:
 
ORLANDO, FL, March 1, 2006 -- Lockheed Martin yesterday conducted a successful ground-launched medium-range guided test vehicle (GTV) flight of the “HELLFIRE® Junior” missile it is offering for the U.S. government’s Advanced Precision Kill Weapon System (APKWS) II requirement.
...
“The rocket hit the target board 2.8 kilometers downrange and the impact was less than half a meter from the laser spot designation,” said Steve Barnoske, director - Tactical Missiles at Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control.
....
The APKWS II is a 2.75-inch laser-guided rocket that will provide crews of the U.S. Army Apache and Marine Corps Cobra attack helicopters and other platforms with precision-strike capability against targets that do not require a 7-inch HELLFIRE missile—an option not presently available. This low-cost alternative will destroy non-armored targets that are close to civilian assets and/or friendly forces.


So they had it already. That requirement of a medium size or junior missile was their answer to those precision strikes they are doing against identified terrorist lairs wherein they could not avoid destroying nearby houses of civilians thus creating so much collateral damages. Same with close-in support to friendly forces.

They were always correct in stating that they only hit the targets, but the impact of those explosions actually affected if not destroyed houses of lightly built materials, making reports of media regarding civilians killed also correct.

Yes, I remember reading about this a few years back and am a bit surprised it's taken so long to develop. I guess everybody was busy with the helicopter-fired anti-tank missile rat race; when sometimes all you really need is some precision small rocket fire. I also seem to recall reading that they had earlier pushed back or even canceled development of this product but maybe the worsening urban-based Iraqi insurgency prodded the Americans to push through with it. Back to basics talaga ang America, no.

The unguided 2.75" rocket is relatively cheap (even we can afford it) but not very accurate. These guided rockets would, of course, be more expensive but I'd imagine helicopters would be able to carry a mix of guided and unguided rockets, for both precision and area fire.

Nice marketing name: Hellfire Junior, pero baka hint din sa price. Well, I'd speculate in the next few years, other developers outside the US will come up with a similar product, maybe cheaper. (After all these years of using 2.75" rockets, our local IT boys didn't think up a simple, cheap guidance system for these rockets?)
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saver111
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For sure Israel will pursue this as they are more involve in helicopter attacks on militant targets.
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tirad
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saver, Looks like the Israelis are already onto it...
Quote:
 
...A variant of the Lahat guidance system is also designed as an upgrade kit for 2.75" rockets offering high precision and minimizing collateral damage when such weapons are used low-intensity conflicts and urban warfare.

www.defense-update.com/...lahat.htm
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saver111
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tirad
Mar 30 2006, 11:41 AM
saver, Looks like the Israelis are already onto it...
Quote:
 
...A variant of the Lahat guidance system is also designed as an upgrade kit for 2.75" rockets offering high precision and minimizing collateral damage when such weapons are used low-intensity conflicts and urban warfare.

www.defense-update.com/...lahat.htm

:wow: Lahat puede! From Tanks, choppers, 105/120 guns and even planning for 106RR modifications.

That's very applicable to our AFP's inventory. Maybe we can develop our own and call it "Hellfire Baby" or if there's a much smaller one, "Hellfire Infant", Parang Armalite, hehe.
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tirad
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saver111
Mar 30 2006, 11:54 AM
:wow: Lahat puede! From Tanks, choppers, 105/120 guns and even planning for 106RR modifications.

Oo nga, astig yang LAHAT, the missile. Lahat pinatulan: pwede kagad sa helicopter, standalone vehicle launcher, 106RR pag meron na, tapos later kung mag-scale up tayo sa 105 FSV, sa UAV din, baka mamya pati 105 howitzer. Commonality to the extreme.

Claimed to also have an anti-helicopter application. They'll probably also develop a bunker-buster variant besides the antitank warhead.

The 106RR version being developed (or already developed? the article's from 2004) is particularly intriguing. Brings the old 106 into the 21st century: retains its relatively low-cost bunker-buster role with conventional rounds, and turns into an ATGM launcher cum precision strike weapon with LAHAT.

Quote:
 
www.defense-update.com/...lahat.htm

LAHAT was designed by IAI subsidiary MBT to meet the requirements of the armoured corps. Utilizing the semi-active laser homing guidance method, LAHAT can be designated by the firing tank or by an indirect designation, by another tank, helicopter or forward observers. Firing the LAHAT requires minimal exposure in the firing position, (commander’s sight only) as the designating tank (not necessarily the firing tank) has to maintain line of sight to the target throughout the flight of the missile.

With a low launch signature (flash and dust), the firing position is very difficult to detect, from all ranges. The missile’s trajectory can be set to match either tank (top attack) or helicopter (direct attack) engagements. Flight time is longer than kinetic ammunition (14 seconds at 4,000 meter range) but since target designation is required only for the final phase of the flight, the tank can fire the LAHAT from hidden position or use remote designation for maximum protection.

... The LAHAT missile has a range of 8 km when launched from a ground platform, and up to 13 km, when deployed from high elevation...

LAHAT is designed to match all types of 105 and 120mm guns, including low recoil guns. It fits well with the 105mm Low Weight guns, designed for arming light attack vehicles such as Centauro, AMX-10RC or LAV-III. Unlike other tank rounds, LAHAT does not need a tank gun for operation, in fact, LAHAT modifications are already considered with 106mm recoilless rifles, BMP-2 APCs, Humvee all terrain utility vehicles and as self protection for air defense elements, on the M-163 Vulcans. According to Aviation Week, Employing LAHAT missiles from Hunter UAVs was also planned by the US Army.

Recon team with laser designator targets ASG hideout at a small clearing. Ready LAHAT in standalone launcher or Defender or super-elevated 106RR several kilometers away. Fire. Hintay sandali. Ka-boom.

Quote:
 
IAI has recently completed a successful series of test firing on the Arjun tank in India, and is negotiating local production...

Aha, nego for local production. Hope this LAHAT would the short-list if/when the AFP's looking to adopt a missile type in the future.
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flipzi
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R-A-T-S

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1st Config: four 7.62 mgs and two 2.75 inch rocket pods in each side


Posted Image
2nd Config: two 2.75 inch rocket pods in each side

3rd Config: is the 1 gun on one side and a rocket pod on the other.

Quote:
 
As for the Defender, the most suitable to offset the slower gun is to put two or four guns on each side. (four 7.62 mgs and two 2.75 inch rocket pods in each side). The Air Force should consider this a lot.

Four guns firing at the same time will multiply the ROF by four. The combined rate of fire will then go as high as 2000 rounds per minute. That's even higher than the M197.

Aside from that, the guns are separated thus giving wider area to cover.

This is perfect for attacking enemy column and for attacking enemy positions with 3 to 5 second pass.

The Air Force may need to bring back this configuration. For longer fire cover. The Hueys can complement the refueling and rearming of the the Defenders.

Moreover, to save bullets, the Defender can switch from 2 guns to 4 guns or even from 4 to 1 gun only, depending on the need.


taken form Seven hours of hell in Tipo-Tipo

http://pdff.sytes.net/index.php?showtopic=4620&st=15&#last


Or, better yet, how about a M134 for the MG520? The photo below is actually a M134 on a Huey.

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Chowking
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the last pic is awesome
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page mcney
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WHY NOT OPTION NO.5:

A GATLING GUN ON ONE SIDE AND A 4Omm GRANADE LAUNCHER (IN POD FORM) ON THE OTHER SIDE?
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flipzi
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Not a bad setup.

If we can arm the Defenders with M134, i suggest they put 2 M134 gun, one on each side. Then 2 rocket pods.

If such load will be too heavy then they can just put one M134 on one side and a rocket pod on the other.

Or 2 M134 on each side and just discard the roket pod. A tandem of MG520, one armed with 2 M134 only and the other is armed with 2 rocket pods should work fine.

Posted Image

A single MG 520 doing a 5-second sweep on enemy position will indeed unleash the needed fire suppression.

The amount of debris thrown into the air or the falling leaves and branches hit by the rain of bullets will surely distract the enemy's sight. This is a good fire suppression/cover strategy.

That's for Configuration #6. :thumb:
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