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Hueys to be phased out!
Topic Started: May 28 2007, 11:50 AM (4,320 Views)
adroth
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spearhead
Jun 24 2007, 10:05 AM
thats why im counting to their given words that they are planning to phaseout the hueys and replaced them with something new.  and i support them, and i pray that it will come true.  plan A is always be the better one.  the meaning of that announcement for me is a very positive one, that means they have goals, and this goal can help them stay away from corruptions, and that also means they are trying their best to be honest in handling our money.  agree? 

:armycheers:

Purchase of new choppers means that there will be new kickback opportunities. I suspect that this is actually one of the reasons why this option is considered very attractive.

This makes a simple in-house refurbishment is actually a more efficient option. The amount involved will be smaller, hence the potential for loss to corruption is correspondingly smaller. Furthermore, the actual costs of components involved in the refurbishment are known -- and therefore easier to monitor.

Purchases should not be made at the expense of the current battle . . . otherwise we won't make it to the point when we actually can move forward with true modernization.
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jvelarde
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Quote:
 
This makes a simple in-house refurbishment is actually a more efficient option. The amount involved will be smaller, hence the potential for loss to corruption is correspondingly smaller. Furthermore, the actual costs of components involved in the refurbishment are known -- and therefore easier to monitor.


Amen. Aside from being a smaller amount, the actual costs are widely known. Plus, being a US company, Bell will never dare pay kickbacks to our people, civilian or military, especially for what is for them a piddling amount. :armycheers:
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adroth
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jvelarde
Jun 24 2007, 04:32 PM

Amen.  Aside from being a smaller amount, the actual costs are widely known.  Plus, being a US company, Bell will never dare pay kickbacks to our people, civilian or military, especially for what is for them a piddling amount.  :armycheers:

Agreed.

It is too much to expect the government to become miraculously corruption free by 2013.

We must give our troops what they need, and do so using a method that is both EFFECTIVE, and spoils the plans of the thieves. The Huey II fits that bill.

Does this mean that we should not hope that we get new equipment? Of course NOT. However, we must take the smart course, and not put all our eggs in the "buy-new" basket, when there are in fact other SOUND and VIABLE alternatives.

The Plans A and B discussed earlier are not mutually exclusive. The so-called "plan B", the Huey II, must be implemented FIRST, before we proceed with the new birds.

That way our troops will not end up with nothing if a politician -- who didn't get his cut -- decides to "launch an investigation in aid of legislation" that results in the abandonment of the purchase.
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Tora^2
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If you ask me, the reason why option B (Huey IIs) is considered a viable option (though I still prefer option A) would be the lack of lack of new viable lightweight battlefield helicopter designs in the market.

The reason why mediums like the NH90, EH101 and the Mi-17 sell well would be the lack of anything else smaller.

Blackhawks are just too expensive to maintain.

The Lynx has had a history of design flaws and a soon-to-be-released variant will hopefully address those.

One new LUH that just entered service is the UH-72 Lakota (aka the Eurocopter EC-145). However, I would classify it as a 2nd-line design as it is only serving with National Guard bin the US units in support of Homeland Security Operations.

The other viable option I see would be AW149 (especially when Mangustas are part of the package) or maybe even the Chines-made Dauphin
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adroth
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Tora^2
Jun 24 2007, 09:52 PM
If you ask me, the reason why option B (Huey IIs) is considered a viable option (though I still prefer option A) would be the lack of lack of new viable lightweight  battlefield helicopter designs in the market.

The reason why mediums like the NH90, EH101 and the Mi-17 sell well would be the lack of anything else smaller.

Interesting point Tora.

Given the nature of COIN ops. which demand helicopters that aren't very picky with their landing zones (size considerations), the PAF will need light helicopters for the forseeable future.

Re light helicopter alternatives, there is also the Polish PZL W-3 Sokol, which is more or less within the Huey class.

http://timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=4112.0

Downside to this, of course, is training expense: new engines . . . new ground support equipment required . . . etc.
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edwin
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spearhead
Jun 1 2007, 09:21 AM

man, we've been fighting these lunatics for decades, and been using the same type of choppers for decades, but haven't u noticed anything?  good.

we are hardly winning the war.  so its worthy to try another weapon to crash these rebels.


well, agree?  :snipemo:

We really need an Attack Helicopter carrying heavy firepower with day and night thermal Infrared targeting sight.

Those Rebels in Iraq are being effectively terminated by Attack Helicopter that help American soldiers fight the insurgency war specially in times of difficult situation wherein Air support is needed.

I think one of the reason our soldiers on the ground is having a hard time fighting those rebels specially in jungle is that effective air support is lacking.

Yes, we have OV-10 or MD-520 but those bird we have does not have the specialization of what the Real ATTACK helicopter does have. (i.e. Targeting System,Thermal Imager,Firepower and Protection).

Cheers
:armycheers:
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edwin
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Here is one example of Helicopter deal between Brazil and America.

Brazil – UH-60L Black Hawk Helicopters

WASHINGTON --- The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Brazil of UH-60L Black Hawk helicopters as well as associated equipment and services.

The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $300 million.

The Government of Brazil has requested a possible sale of six UH-60L Black Hawk helicopters with 12 T-700-GE-701C engines, 2 spare T-700-GE-701C engines, warranty, external hoist kits, spare and repair parts, tools and support equipment, publications and technical data, personnel training and training equipment, contractor engineering and technical support services and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost is $300 million.

SOURCE:
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/c...odele=jdc_inter


Imagine, 50 million dollar per helicopter including for spares and training.For six helicopter it is a bit on high tag price.

Im just wondering what does PAF have in mind as a replacement helicopter once they really decided to PHASE out their venerable HUEY?? cheers :armycheers:
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flipzi
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Chinese Z9 is a good concept for troop transport.

It's fast. Costs a lot less than a Blackhawk.

I think the Z9 is indeed a good candidate.

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http://avia-dejavu.net/photo%2091.htm

The Eurocopter AS.365N Dauphin 2 is a twin-engined medium-weight transport helicopter for up to 2 crew and 13 passengers powered by two Turbomeca Arriel 1C2 Turbine engines.
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edwin
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As long Z9 troop transpot will surpass the capability of PAF trusty HUEY/HUeY ll with regards to operational effectiveness, reliability and maintenability, then Z9 Harbin is indeed a good candidate for PAF next generation of Utility Helicopter.

We might as well get the ATTack VARIANT OF Z9 to give ease on maintenance and commonality of Parts tied up to the Troop carrrier version of Z9.

Cheers :armycheers:
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Lorenz_Mallari
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panzergeneral
May 28 2007, 03:39 PM
they should have done than years ago

:agree:
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