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Light gunships; Orbiting fire
Topic Started: Apr 1 2007, 02:04 PM (2,010 Views)
tirad
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Orbiting fire has been known to be useful in COIN and you don't have to get closer as in a diving attack to sustain fire against targets. But only the USAF flies the AC-130, and even Colombia's Basler-upgraded AC-47 with a pair GAU-19 3-barrel .50cal might be out of reach. We could resort to smaller fixed-wing aircraft that still have good endurance and are economical to operate.

Commercial off-the-shelf single-engined options include the PC-6 Porter and Cessna Caravan.

An AU-23 (PC-6) with a 3-barrel 20mm (!):
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Other possible weapons include the Nexter (Giat) SH-20 single-barrel 20mm door gun, the GAU-19, the M3M/GAU-21 high-ROF .50cal or even 40mm AGL (which have made it to some helicopters). Perhaps the PC-6 Porter's wide doors would allow both the M3 .50cal and a CIS 40AGL (we already got some; or the more compact SLWAGL. The obligatory FLIR turret would also make it night-capable.

Weapons could be fired manually by gunners. Or could be fixed and operated remotely by one of the pilots, with just a loader out back.

And in more peaceful times, these could be converted back to transports.
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Tora^2
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I like this idea very much given the sort of enemies we are fighting and the limited budget the PAF is left with for equipment (the Air Staff can only look on at the huge funds the Army is receiving).

If ever we can't procure an auto cannon, would a medium/heavy mg suffice? Otherwise, would such aircraft be a stable platform enough to carry 20mm cannons taken from derelict F8P Crusaders or F5A/Bs?
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seWer Rat
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wow baby spectres ...

How about converting one of the VIP Fokkers into a light gunship?
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Tora^2
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Why not?

It's a better use of the aircraft other than to haul the @$$ of politicians and VIPS.
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tirad
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Tora^2
Apr 1 2007, 03:28 PM
If ever we can't procure an auto cannon, would a medium/heavy mg suffice? Otherwise, would such aircraft be a stable platform enough to carry 20mm cannons taken from derelict F8P Crusaders or F5A/Bs?


For this mini-gunship, a heavy MG is the way to go.

Compared to a medium MG, even the Colombians' opted for 50cal in their upgraded AC-47T over the old Puff's 7.62 miniguns because it could penetrate the jungle canopy better. The 50cal is also an overmatch for mobile rebs with M60s and rifles.

Compared to 20mm, the 50cal is a much more common round, cheaper, and less than half the round weight/approx size (more can be carried). Since we're not dealing with light armor proof'd vs 12.7/14.5mm that requires a 20mm, the 50cal would do for COIN (works for Colombian AC47s too).

As to type, the M3M/GAU21 over the GAU19.
It's lighter, simpler, has less recoil, doesn't require electrical power, and cheaper; also used in pods by MG520s. While the old M2's ROF is low for an airborne platform (or in AA, if used singly), the M3M's ~1k rpm is fine.
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Tora^2
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For this gunship to be really effective, it should also have a simple yet effective targetting system.

A LASER-based system would help especially if backed up by a ground-based target designator.

Whether a LASER system is used or not, the best way to make the use of it is still close coordination with ground-based units.

Now as for platforms, aside from the F27, what other aircraft in the PAF's flightline can be modified for this role?
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Numbers
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Recent developments in lightweight small-calibre cannons and cheaper targeting technology would make this 'light gunship' proposal viable in the PAF.

IMO, the best platform available in the inventory would be the Fokker F27. A C-130 would be fine too but its more needed in its original transport role.
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Singa Lion
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yes i suggest the paf shouls pursue this project, its best for counter insurgency.

the fokker is a good choice, it can even carry missiles. i think some other country has already employed this aircraft as gunship.

add alsoside looking radar to equipment list, and 90mm gun could fit also lah?
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tirad
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Plenty of COTS sensors for helicopters and UAVs to choose from to equip this mini-gunship.

The F27 is too big for this mini-gunship role. Any more F27s we could reactivate would be better used to boost the transport fleet. I think that the Fokker comes up merely exposes the PAF's lack of light transports (even countries with more resources have the PC6 or Caravan in their inventory) and not that it's actually the most suitable type in the PAF lineup for this.

The PC6 would definitely be much more economical to operate. To cut costs, let's also not discount refurbished PC6s off the used market, including from Pilatus itself. I just want a flying jeep with an HMG.

Back in the early '70s...
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The Fairchild AU-23A was a modified Pilatus PC-6 Turbo-Porter, with either a single General Electric XM-197 three-barrel 20 mm Gatling gun, or two General Electric 7.62 mm MXU-470 Minigun modules. In addition, several bombs, napalm or rocket pods could be carried on four underwing and one fuselage hardpoint. The aircraft was dubbed 'Peacemaker'. Fifteen of the 17 converted were sold to the Royal Thai Air Force for COIN missions. Gunships: Project Credible Chase)
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pilok2007
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This is a magnificient idea, whoever thought of this 1st.
our airspace is there for us to exploit to our advantage in the battlefield. afterall we are not up against an advance enemy. :bow:
“NEVER WAS SO MUCH OWED BY SO MANY TO SO FEW” Prime Minister Winston Churchill
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