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| Helos as Forward Air Controllers & for Night Ops | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 30 2006, 03:24 AM (1,062 Views) | |
| flipzi | Sep 30 2006, 03:24 AM Post #1 |
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Air Force deploys ‘forward air controllers’ vs Sayyaf, JI By Roel Pareño The Philippine Star 09/30/2006 PANAMAO, Sulu — Government troops gained the upper hand in the offensive against the Abu Sayyaf through the help of US troops training Filipino soldiers how to pick out their targets from aboard roving helicopters. The tactic proved to be a nightmare for the bandits who are forced to run constantly from the numerically superior government troops chasing them on the ground. US forces, through its Special Warfare Team (SWAT), have trained Filipino snipers from the Army’s 9th Tactical Operation Group (TOG) to pick out moving targets even at night. According to Col. Elmer Amon, 9th TOG commander, his men have used MG520 attack helicopters as its Forward Air Controller (FAC) to act as "the eye in the sky" for troops chasing the Abu Sayyaf on the ground. Amon said the impressive capability of the 9th TOG was demonstrated when US-trained Light Reaction Company (LRC) snipers were deployed at the helicopter’s platform to stop moving targets even as they move out to sea. He said the bandits are having difficulty in escaping unnoticed because some of them are being picked out by snipers on board the helicopters. Amon said the technique proves powerfully effective in pinpointing enemy locations while minimizing the danger to friendly ground troops and collateral damage. "Using the technique requires skills and rigorous training. And our crew are effective on that," Amon said. Amon revealed the troops are using four UH-1H helicopters in the mission and two MG520 attack helicopters for night operations. "The UH-1H helicopters have their own dedicated pilots and crews who are only on call for the night mission," Amon said. The pilots and crew members of the 9th TOG have been essential for the aerial war support of the current hunt for Abu Sayyaf chieftain Khadaffy Janjalani and the two Bali bombers Dulmatin and Umar Patek. Western Mindanao Command (Wesmincom) spokesman Maj. Eugene Batara said the 9th TOG air crew have been helpful in supplying the ground forces with ammunition and medical supplies to allow the troops to continue the chase. Amon said one of the critical missions which the troops lauded is the "Medevac," a military jargon for medical evacuation capability. "When our wounded brothers need medical attention quickly, we use (the) helicopters to make that happen and save lives," he said. The military have stepped the offensive under "Oplan Ultimatum," saying they have already pinpointed the exact location of the bandits and cornering their leaders would only be a matter of time. Over 6,000 troops are closing in on the Abu Sayyaf, which has provided sanctuary to Dulmatin and Patek, both wanted for the bloody bombing of Bali resort in Indonesia that killed over 200 people in October 2002. US troops are helping government forces track down the Abu Sayyaf and the three terrorists with the use of sophisticated surveillance equipment. The assistance of the US military is the same kind of technical support given to the troops in previous anti-terror operations. The US government is helping out in the manhunt for the three terrorists through technical and intelligence gathering assistance. ] http://philstar.com/philstar/NEWS200609300414.htm |
![]() " Sovereignty resides in the people and all government authority emanates from them! - Art. II Sec 1, Philippine Constitution " " People don't care what we know until they know we care. " getflipzi@yahoo.com | |
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| jammerjamesky | Sep 30 2006, 01:47 PM Post #2 |
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that is why the timely arrival of the initial 6 AH-1 Fox Cobra is very important in the anti insugerncy and terrorist campaign. Lets give the Air Force more fire power and supremacy in the air, afterall this is our territory we can do what we wanted to do. the augmentation unit also of the upcomnig MD-530's in the PAF inventory will also add a very strategic boost in the troop insertion and air support during night operation. |
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| flipzi | Sep 30 2006, 04:06 PM Post #3 |
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Not 6 but 12 attack choppers. Not sure if Cobra though. The latest news mentioned night-flying capable MD500s. So, it could also be a MD500 variant. Better if we get the Cobra though for more weapons load and for precision bombings. The Gatling-canon is better than the one that our current fleet of Defenders. That alone can give the ground troops an effective fire cover. I agree that we buy more MD500s for to fully cover the whole achipelago so that soldiers anywhere in the country can get the needed air support and even forward air control. |
![]() " Sovereignty resides in the people and all government authority emanates from them! - Art. II Sec 1, Philippine Constitution " " People don't care what we know until they know we care. " getflipzi@yahoo.com | |
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| Tora^2 | Oct 1 2006, 02:02 AM Post #4 |
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Using Helos as FAC platforms is fairly old news in the PAF. I read the account of the battle for Sulu in the PAF anniversary coffee table book where they were using Hueys for FAC. Aside from airborne FAC platforms, the PAF should also utilize combat controllers to be imbedded with infantry (including SOF) and armor to coordinate units in the air. We do have the personnel for this and it is a damn waste thta they're merely used as infantrymen in PAF BDA. |
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| flipzi | Oct 1 2006, 12:26 PM Post #5 |
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![]() Not all soldiers are fit for physical combat engagement. Some excel in carrying out the tactics. While some excel in conceptualizing what tactics the troops must carry out. The best tacticians and strategists should be safe from the line of fire. The more they stay safe, the more the organization will benefit from that person. We need to train our combat soldiers how to carry out the tactics. We also need to train those who draft the tactics. Another area of specialty is properly coordinating the human and material resource with the tactics drafted by our tacticians and strategists. That makes 3 fields of specialization. One is "carrying out the tactics". Second is "formulating the tactiss". Third is "ensuring that human and material resource works with the tactics." You can call that effective resource management. |
![]() " Sovereignty resides in the people and all government authority emanates from them! - Art. II Sec 1, Philippine Constitution " " People don't care what we know until they know we care. " getflipzi@yahoo.com | |
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| Tora^2 | Oct 1 2006, 04:06 PM Post #6 |
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The folks I'm talking about in my previous post would be guys from our PAF Combat groups and in our Special Operations Wing who end up as mere infantrymen and security for politicans and rich folks. They are trained for such ops and tactics but are not utilized for the missions their counterparts abroad are pulling off. Equips our FACs and Combat controllers could use aside from reliable comm gear would be signalling devices to mark targets or LZs for aircraft . These would include hand grenades, M203 grenades, 60MM mortar bombss or even recoilles rifle rounds containing colored smoke for day ops and white phosphorous for night ops Eventually they should also be training to use LASER designators when we finally get PGM-equipped attack a/c |
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| flipzi | Oct 1 2006, 05:25 PM Post #7 |
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![]() We need to uitilize them for such roles. Not as mere Army or Marine counterparts.
That will greatly boost our strike capability. Bunkers and enemy defenses will all be vulnerable. Even the Cobras carry laser-guided bombs, right? Then we should expedite the formation of such unit so that the Cobras can use their skills when these attack choppers arrive. |
![]() " Sovereignty resides in the people and all government authority emanates from them! - Art. II Sec 1, Philippine Constitution " " People don't care what we know until they know we care. " getflipzi@yahoo.com | |
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| Tora^2 | Oct 2 2006, 04:47 PM Post #8 |
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You must be talking about LASER-guided missiles. Anyway, unless the NPA or the JI/ABU-Sayyaf has SAMs/AAA and hardened bunkers they'll be a waste of money when cheaper weapons can do the job. Exepnsive PGMs like Hellfires and Mavs are better used aginst conventional opponents who have better defended targets like warships, armor and bunkers. It appears that 2.75 FFARs, 20MM rounds, MGs of .308"-.50" in caliber and bombs from 250-500lbs seem to do a good job for the PAF in the COIN campaign. What we need more of in the COIN air war would be the ability to acquire targets in most environments, better air-ground coordination and greatly improved maintainability of air assets. Equipment to fight a war of external defense would have to wait until we win this war first. |
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| flipzi | Oct 2 2006, 06:03 PM Post #9 |
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If that is the case, then NIGHT-FLIGHT and rockets/machineguns will be enough. The sad thing here is that the rebels, like in the case when Janjalani was able to escape before the OV10 bombers dropped their bombs on their hideout in Agusan, can just scamper to safety once the sound of the choppers and OV10s comes near. I suggest we take the hint from how Al-Zarcawi was bombed to death in Iraq. SILENT, FAST, ACCURATE! MG520s and OV10s cant give you that edge. So i say, we get a bunch of MRFs for this COIN. Or get the Cobras fast, with its laser-guided bombs. |
![]() " Sovereignty resides in the people and all government authority emanates from them! - Art. II Sec 1, Philippine Constitution " " People don't care what we know until they know we care. " getflipzi@yahoo.com | |
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| Tora^2 | Oct 3 2006, 12:17 AM Post #10 |
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That mission proved that such a strike package can do the job. Sniper pod-equipped F16Cs dropping LASER/GPS-guided 500-pounders is definitely out of our budget. Not even LCAs with PGMs and more austere precision targetting systems before 2011. Our airforce cannot even afford to keep more than 10 S211s servicable. S211s offer the silent and fast operation but they do not offer the payload and accuracy needed for such a strike. Meanwhile, the OV10 and MG520 offer payload and accuracy respectively. Unfortunately, their distinct sound and visual profile that is a dead giveaway for ASG's ground observers. It also doesn't help that they don't have the range and speed as Flipzi mentioned. The solution I see would have to be for our strike packages to hit at night when it would be hard to spot them from the ground. To negate the lack of targeting systems, they will have to work in close coordination with guys on the ground namely Scout Rangers, LRC shooters and possibly even US JSOTF troops who are said to be shadowing Janjalani. It would also help that they get support from US JSOTF Air surveillance assets namely recon UAVs, Spy Sats and that P3 Orion the US forces claim they have in flying over the AO. |
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