| Welcome to Philippines Defense Forces Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| China Rules the Bargain Basement | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 1 2006, 10:22 PM (1,055 Views) | |
| truegrit | Mar 1 2006, 10:22 PM Post #1 |
![]()
|
China Rules the Bargain Basement March 1, 2006: Russia does not own the market for bargain basement warplanes, it still has to compete with China. A recent example of that was Bangladesh buying sixteen F-7s fighters from China. The aircraft, which are basically Chinese clones of the Russian MiG-21, are being sold for $6 million each. That's about a tenth of what a new F-16 would cost, or a fifth of what a used F-16 would cost. The F-16 is not ten times better than the F-7, but it's at least three times better. While the F-7 can carry the latest radars and air-to-air missiles, Bangladesh is not buying them to fight F-16s. No, Bangladesh wants some cheap, easy to maintain fighters to deal with more likely, and less well armed, opponents. These include nearby Burma and India, which both use the MiG-21. Burma operates F-7s, while India has Russian Mig-21s. More immediate foes include Islamic terrorists, and some tribal separatists, who often operate from rural camps. These are best reached, and attacked, with something like the F-7. The MiG-21 is a 1950s design. The Chinese copy, the F-7, first appeared in 1965. About a thousand of them are still in service (half of them in China), and China still produces about a hundred a year. The F-7 has a max takeoff weight of eight tons, and carries two 30mm cannon (with 60 rounds each) and two air-to-air missiles (or about a ton of rockets and bombs instead.) |
![]() |
|
| israeli | Mar 2 2006, 12:31 AM Post #2 |
![]()
|
i'm still more concerned about the quality and capability of the F-7 Airguard... but then... if we really need the aircraft, we then have to swallow our "pride" and start buying Chinese.
|
| "To secure peace is to prepare for war." - Carl Von Clausewitz | |
![]() |
|
| epigone | Mar 2 2006, 07:46 AM Post #3 |
|
Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Got nothing to do with pride. It's just like a business enterprise. You try to cut costs. Our constitution remains intact. We are not hostile to the Chinese and vice versa. They profit from it too. We accepted bulldozers from them. Might as well buy their planes. Such redound to our own benefit. |
| "Provocation is a valid defense against homicide"- Canadian Law on MSantor who 'cough, cough..', passes by my company room with a cup of coffee, waits for me in the bus shelter together with his friends and provoke me, and has been stalking me in forums like army.ca, navy.ca, timawa.net, militaryforums.com... He indeed is 'SEEKING DEATH' - Holy Bible. | |
![]() |
|
| jammerjamesky | Mar 2 2006, 06:43 PM Post #4 |
|
Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Chicoms are known of cloning the russian jets. The old work horse of the chineese communist for how many years. I think its good for us to follow our own plans. We cannot put some precious money for this bargain units. Remember Chineese are slowly replacing them with new ones. We must plan for the future and seriously take into consideration some deals with around asia and europe also. |
![]() |
|
| israeli | Mar 5 2006, 09:06 PM Post #5 |
![]()
|
here are some of the Air Force products that the Chinese are selling to potential buyers, according to China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Corporation website:![]() -- F-7MG Airguard fighter aircraft ![]() -- FT-7 (tandem-seat F-7) advanced trainer aircraft ![]() -- JF-17/FC-1 multi-role fighter aircraft ![]() -- K-8 Karakorum basic and advanced jet trainer aircraft ![]() -- Y-12 light transport aircraft ![]() -- Z-9A utility and Z-9G attack helicopters (Chinese copies of the French Dauphin helicopter) ![]() -- Z-11 light helicopter (Chinese copy of the French Fennec helicopter) |
| "To secure peace is to prepare for war." - Carl Von Clausewitz | |
![]() |
|
| ian | Mar 6 2006, 05:13 PM Post #6 |
|
Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
We should only invest in battle tested equipment since investing in untested ones which later might prove inferior would be a total waste of money. It doesn't mean that even when the designs are copied/cloned from tested ones, that the copies/clones will work just as well. |
![]() |
|
| truegrit | Mar 6 2006, 06:03 PM Post #7 |
![]()
|
Why not follow what the Romanians did for their MiGs21 jets? Retained the original Airframe and engine but adapt a Western Avionics (Israeli Elbit)... or Use the F7 Airframe, install a US- GE F404 Engine(F16) and an Israeli Elbit Avionics..Thats a good a combination. What do you think? |
![]() |
|
| israeli | Mar 6 2006, 07:13 PM Post #8 |
![]()
|
^ actually, China agrees to have the F-7 Airguard modified based on the customer's specifications. one example of this is the Pakistani F-7P/F-7PG Skybolt.![]() -- Pakistani Air Force F-7P Skybolt fighters ![]() -- two Pakistani Air Force tandem-seat FT-7P Skybolt fighters according to sinodefence.com, the F-7P Skybolt is "a variant of F-7M for Pakistani Air Force, embodying 24 modifications to meet specific requirements of PAF, including ability to carry four AIM-9 Sidewinders AAMs instead of two and fitment of Martin-Baker Mk 10L ejection seat." a further modification of the F-7P was done in the F-7PG, which included an improved cockpit layout and navigation system incorporating Collins AN/ARN-147 VOR/ILS receiver, AN/ARN-149 ADF and Pro Line II digital DME-42 and fitting of the FIAR Grifo 7 fire control radar. the F-7MG, the current F-7 variant on offer to potential buyers, is fitted with the GEC-Marconi Super Skyranger PD fire-control radar and electronic countermeasures (ECM) suite, as well as a Martin-Baker zero/zero ejection seat. aside from the Super Skyranger, other fire control radars that can be fitted into the F-7MG include the Italian-made Grifo 7 and the Chinese-made Type 226 PD. the weapons suite of the F-7MG includes two 30mm Type 30-1 cannon with 60 rounds per gun in the lower sides of the fuselage. Four under-wing stores stations can carry up to 2,000kg of disposable stores (each unit rated at 500kg), typical weapons are PL-8, and PL-9 short-range AAMs, free-fall weapons such as 500, 250, 100 and 50kg bombs, and multiple launchers each carrying twelve 55mm or seven 90mm unguided rockets. Centre fuselage station and two outboard wing stations are pumped to carry 720 litre drop tanks. however, i'm still doubtful about the quality and capability of the F-7 Airguard aside from being jittery about buying weapons and equipment from a country that could be our potential enemy.
|
| "To secure peace is to prepare for war." - Carl Von Clausewitz | |
![]() |
|
| Kookie | Apr 10 2006, 03:31 PM Post #9 |
|
Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
quality of chinese-made products are improving, even counterfeit branded goods made in china are no longer distinguishable from the original, maybe three years from now they can market high quality defense equipment at still relatively low prices :thumb: |
![]() |
|
| nhc | May 6 2006, 05:25 AM Post #10 |
|
Unregistered
![]() |
I really think that the f-7mg is worth looking at. It is cheap, fast and from articles i have read, very manueverable due to the addition of the manuevering flaps on the outer wing. It won't be king of the air, but it would at least be respectable and cheap to operate. Since it is not a top of the line fighter, I think the chinese would not have any problems sharing the technology to make spare parts (for a fee of course). While we are at it, a squadron of F-8IIM optimised for maritime strike to upgrade our maritime defense would make a nice wish list . Same engine as the F-7, thus simplifying the logistics. |
|
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| « Previous Topic · Philippine Air Force · Next Topic » |









![]](http://z1.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)











8:52 AM Jul 11