Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Philippines Defense Forces Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Defence emphasis
Topic Started: Feb 11 2006, 07:56 AM (3,510 Views)
City Hunter
Member
[ *  *  * ]
Rather than invest in buying questionable Kfirs why don't we buy this instead:

Posted Image

Here's the link for more info:

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/air.../lavi/Lavi.html

This stresses my point. We want a capable MRF that could serve us well into the future. And we want it to help us economically too. This Lavi was made after 2 years when the project got shelved. And they are using it still to test some experimental equipment. This may mean that the production tooling and manufacturing jigs are still existing. Why don't we express interest in buying those to make our own MRFs instead of antiquated Kfirs that have received some upgrades. If its just upgraded Kfirs it would be better for us to buy upgraded F5Es instead, in my opinion.
Command is about authority, about appointment to a position. Effective leadership is different. It must be learned and practiced in order for it to rise to the level of art. You must love those you lead before you can be an effective leader. You can certainly command without that sense of commitment but you cannot lead without it; and without leadership, command is a hollow experience. .. a vacuum often filled with mistrust and ignorance.

Gen. Eric K. Shinseki
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
el_commandante
Member Avatar
Member
[ *  *  * ]
Akala ko ba nai benta na ng mga Israeli sa China ang technology ng Lavi?

The Lavi fighter is still in the development stage when the program was cancelled with only a few prototypes made.

Even the Chinese J10, based on the LAVI is not yet perfect, the Chinese are even importing the engine from the Russians.

Pero ok din kung mabili natin ang technology na iyan, mas magaling kesa bumili tayo ng gawa na, saka little research would be made since a prototype is already existing. konting polishing and improvement na lang. :thumb:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
page mcney
Member
[ *  *  * ]
for external defence:

so what kind of MRF is applicable to us (in terms of affordability, superiority, sustainablilty, easy maintenance, etc), kasi mukhang hindi kayo nag-a-agree sa isa't-isa kung anong applicable sa atin eh, basta look at the economic side of it, yung kaya nating bilhin and i-maintain, and can defend within the boudaries of our territorial limits (remember fighters from china cannot reach our territory without any in-flight refueling -their capability is not yet fully developed). we need atleast 24 MRFs = 20 single seat and 4 dual seat versions.

fixed and mobile radars. fixed radar stations for long-range surveillance of our frontier/borders. short-range radars for tactical use (inland) and for use in strategic islands like the spratly's, turtle island/sulu area, and babuyan island region.

for internal defence:

a. we need UAVs for monitoring and surveillance of known enemy location, but we need a simple UAV, not the million-dollar worth of UAV that the US and other rich countries that are using/fielding. yung simple lang na mura like the ones being exported by israel. we can eventually use this for experimentation and eventually make our own.

b. light turbo prop aircraft for FAC/COIN/light attack/trng. OV-10 is a great aircraft for this type (their is an upgraded version to extend its life, increase payload, can carry different weapons, can be fitted with FLIR and NVG capable, more powerful but fuel efficient engines). but there are other types with 1 engine for more fuel savings (like the PC-6 or 7, i forgot).

c. attack and utility helos. 32 units of MD520s and 100 units of UH-1H II

d. special ops equipment (air assets) like modified/upgraded S-76 (new avionic, under nose-mounted FLIR, NVG capable, new engines with heat suppresors, addn fire power (4 pods, 2 on each side = 2 rocket pods and 2 gun pods); another is the upgraded C-47 turbo basler with side monted weapons (like a mini AC-130 gunship type).

e. spec ops like scout rangers be optimized to their full potentials (change the name from scout rangers to full RANGERS); include another battalion to form 3 full size-battalion (a ranger regiment).

LOGISTIC SUPPORT:

we need at least 8 C-130s to form a medium-lift squadron and 8 smaller type of aircraft (fokker manufactured and/or its equivalent) to form a troopship squadron.



i think the gov't and the military must focus on ending the insurgency (NPA, MILF) immediately!!! and then re-focus on external defence, but at the same time must also focus on terrorism (abu-sayaf, JI, al-queda, etc).

habang andyan ang mga insurgents walang pupuntahan ang bayan natin, dapat i-eliminate na sila...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
City Hunter
Member
[ *  *  * ]
Sir page mcney, there is indeed a disagreement on what MRF we need for external defense. Mainly because of budget reasons. This is why I'm inclined that we use this small budget to invest in something that would provide temporary relief and income too. And that is the Cali. And then we negotiate to lease surplus Gripen Bs (or something equally as effective as long as its just a lease). Then invest in buying completely the design, manufaturing jigs and tooling for a potential aircraft that got shelved (and this is where the Lavi, Novi Avion, F-20, Kobra 2000, etc comes in). Ang approach nga lang natin would be like what the Israelis are doing as malabong masagot natin lahat ng requirements for such a sophisticated aircraft alone and locally.

As for the ChiComs, as per reports if they are to be believed, they are already practicing aerial refueling. Ang problem lang nila ay distrust pa rin sa mga ordinary soldiers hence limited training time. But we mustnot dismiss things as so. Dapat we must prepare for what the enemy can do and not what they might do. And the Su27s can reach our shores quite easily. Kung tayo pwedeng gumawa ng temporary carrier out of a transport or container ship what more could they especially with them having carrier technology na. Plus, their base in Kalayaan Islands aka Spratlys meron rin airstrip that could take in fighter jets. And they have a replacement already for that old model that is assigned there.

And the answer to the insurgency problem ay economic at equal justice. This is the same view shared by the military. Ang mahirap lipulin ay yun mga criminals na tamad magtrabaho ng legal na hindi considered as rebels or freedom fighters. But as those two solutions cannot be addressed yet by such a shaky admin in power today ginagamitan na lang ng bala to silence opposition.
Command is about authority, about appointment to a position. Effective leadership is different. It must be learned and practiced in order for it to rise to the level of art. You must love those you lead before you can be an effective leader. You can certainly command without that sense of commitment but you cannot lead without it; and without leadership, command is a hollow experience. .. a vacuum often filled with mistrust and ignorance.

Gen. Eric K. Shinseki
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
City Hunter
Member
[ *  *  * ]
Also, mas ok, for me, kung ang future MRF natin ay delta-wing config na may moveable canard tulad ng Gripen at Lavi. I've favored the F20 because of the deal and the possible market kung maibenta as F5 upgrade and in improving our Cali. At dahil ang F20 may potential to turn it into the X-29 which is the future, as I see, for fighter aircrafts. Yun nga lang hindi pa rin magiging best solution ang Gripen or Lavi or whatever delta-wing with canard (all moveable) para sa iba't ibang missions. This is where the Defiant, Hummingbird and Cali comes in. I do not believe that an aircraft can be made that would excel in all types of missions. At kahit magawa pa ang said aircraft paano naman yun piloto. Super gifted naman yun which would make him a state treasure. Unless we perfect cloning I doubt such a pilot can be fielded in numbers. Ang better bet ay isang aircraft that can be configured for different needs at iba't ibang pilots ang magpalipad who excels in a specific field pero knowledgeable naman in others. At kung kinakailangan ng specific tool dito papasok ang mga Defiant, Cali, etc.

and kung magawa natin yun Defiant we could answer much of the other needs like light transport aircrafts pati helicopters. Yun Skycrane can deploy battleboxes na configured and deployable as gliders. At yun transport aircraft can tow a glider too para temporary solution muna instead of buying heavy lift transports. Yun C130 gawin natin seaplanes para mas flexible sila.
Command is about authority, about appointment to a position. Effective leadership is different. It must be learned and practiced in order for it to rise to the level of art. You must love those you lead before you can be an effective leader. You can certainly command without that sense of commitment but you cannot lead without it; and without leadership, command is a hollow experience. .. a vacuum often filled with mistrust and ignorance.

Gen. Eric K. Shinseki
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
page mcney
Member
[ *  *  * ]
City Hunter
Feb 20 2006, 04:35 PM
Sir page mcney, there is indeed a disagreement on what MRF we need for external defense. Mainly because of budget reasons. This is why I'm inclined that we use this small budget to invest in something that would provide temporary relief and income too. And that is the Cali. And then we negotiate to lease surplus Gripen Bs (or something equally as effective as long as its just a lease). Then invest in buying completely the design, manufaturing jigs and tooling for a potential aircraft that got shelved (and this is where the Lavi, Novi Avion, F-20, Kobra 2000, etc comes in). Ang approach nga lang natin would be like what the Israelis are doing as malabong masagot natin lahat ng requirements for such a sophisticated aircraft alone and locally.

As for the ChiComs, as per reports if they are to be believed, they are already practicing aerial refueling. Ang problem lang nila ay distrust pa rin sa mga ordinary soldiers hence limited training time. But we mustnot dismiss things as so. Dapat we must prepare for what the enemy can do and not what they might do. And the Su27s can reach our shores quite easily. Kung tayo pwedeng gumawa ng temporary carrier out of a transport or container ship what more could they especially with them having carrier technology na. Plus, their base in Kalayaan Islands aka Spratlys meron rin airstrip that could take in fighter jets. And they have a replacement already for that old model that is assigned there.

And the answer to the insurgency problem ay economic at equal justice. This is the same view shared by the military. Ang mahirap lipulin ay yun mga criminals na tamad magtrabaho ng legal na hindi considered as rebels or freedom fighters. But as those two solutions cannot be addressed yet by such a shaky admin in power today ginagamitan na lang ng bala to silence opposition.

sir city hunter, i agree to your suggestion, if thats the least and economically wise thing to do then the gov't and especially the military planners should read our advices, marami silang matututunan dito...

sir, i haven't had the slightest bit of info with regards with the "cali" project. can you please refresh me or give some details with it and even one picture of it, sorry for the inconvenience...

i hope the present gov't would see all of this advices/ideas, mukang tinalo pa natin ang mag advisers nila e, atleast tayo nakikita natin ang nangyayari sa state ng armed forces natin, sila na andun na still turning a blind eye for it!!

sorry for my comment and sentiments sir city hunter and sir moderator... sorry...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
City Hunter
Member
[ *  *  * ]
No offense taken sir. Actually, your views have merits as with everyone else. As this is a free forum where we discuss and learn ideas from each other. Also, your views help me and others shape better their thoughts and what should be addressed as priorities.

Even I err a lot especially when using for reference some outdated or biased data. And have taken a step back too from being too anti-GMA as I realized that one needs to know not just to tango but do other steps too to make things happen.
Command is about authority, about appointment to a position. Effective leadership is different. It must be learned and practiced in order for it to rise to the level of art. You must love those you lead before you can be an effective leader. You can certainly command without that sense of commitment but you cannot lead without it; and without leadership, command is a hollow experience. .. a vacuum often filled with mistrust and ignorance.

Gen. Eric K. Shinseki
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
City Hunter
Member
[ *  *  * ]
Sir el commandante, if my analysis is right the Israelis shared the technology of the Lavi with the Red Chinese but didn't sell it. As the Americans helped develop and fund the project it may cause serious rift between the two if they did so. I'm still checking up on the Arye (something spelled like it) that was the predecessor of the Lavi that was supposed to be a simpler model to replace their ground attack aircrafts. And as the Lavi seems to be a national pride piece I doubt the Isreali officials would let it go just like that. My guess is that they have everything for production stored somewhere waiting just for the opportunity to be used again. I believe too that it is possible for us to negotiate to manufacture some of it as it is no longer a threat to the F16 and F18 markets (well, the F18 was threatened then by their upgraded F4 which was said to equal already the F18s performance).

If the ChiComs could do shortcuts despite the limits posed on them by the free world (the Americans and the Russians still wouldn't sell them much what they need) my bet is if we are to be a strong ally we could do better than them, the ChiComs. Or play it the way the Israelis and French do when it comes to defense trading and development.
Command is about authority, about appointment to a position. Effective leadership is different. It must be learned and practiced in order for it to rise to the level of art. You must love those you lead before you can be an effective leader. You can certainly command without that sense of commitment but you cannot lead without it; and without leadership, command is a hollow experience. .. a vacuum often filled with mistrust and ignorance.

Gen. Eric K. Shinseki
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
City Hunter
Member
[ *  *  * ]
Sir page mcney, I recall there's an old thread of the Super Pinto/Cali here. I'll see if I could find it and post a link here later. Anyway, the Super Pinto is an uprated Pinto that was supposed to be a trainer jet for the Americans then. But as something else won that the Pinto wasn't picked. The Super Pinto came out when it got a better engine. And the Super Pinto being a single engine at that exhibitied sports car like performance in the air. The Cali or Eagle, if my info is right, is our name for it. We bought the design and rights plus the existing copy plus another that we assembled. It looked promising especially with it being powered by an engine similar to our F5s. It was supposed to be our replacement for the F5s when the time comes. For some reason that is still lost to me it got shelved.

I've introduced the idea to Sen. Pimentel on one of my earlier corresspondence as he was asking about where we could start our aviation industry. I'm also trying to finish a draft about my suggestion for the use of air power in answering the needs of our military and economy so I could present a better report to him. If schedule permits, I may even get to hand it to him directly as I plan to visit a friend in the Senate as promised. As of present, mukhang stuck ang modernization plans as nasa budget hearings pa rin. Ngayon lang ako muling humingi ng update sa kanya as been busy lately. Hope I could get a reply from him and from the other senators I sent a message to soon.
Command is about authority, about appointment to a position. Effective leadership is different. It must be learned and practiced in order for it to rise to the level of art. You must love those you lead before you can be an effective leader. You can certainly command without that sense of commitment but you cannot lead without it; and without leadership, command is a hollow experience. .. a vacuum often filled with mistrust and ignorance.

Gen. Eric K. Shinseki
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
City Hunter
Member
[ *  *  * ]
Sir page mcney, here's the link to the Cali

http://pdff.sytes.net/index.php?showtopic=1490

There's also a pdf file somewhere where an American private citizen who owns one upgraded his. This would still be a hit, in my opinion, in the civilian market if we could get to produce it. It would then help fund our other needs and projects.
Command is about authority, about appointment to a position. Effective leadership is different. It must be learned and practiced in order for it to rise to the level of art. You must love those you lead before you can be an effective leader. You can certainly command without that sense of commitment but you cannot lead without it; and without leadership, command is a hollow experience. .. a vacuum often filled with mistrust and ignorance.

Gen. Eric K. Shinseki
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Fully Featured & Customizable Free Forums
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Philippine Air Force · Next Topic »
Add Reply