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| The Mother Ship Concept/MPV/Multirole Vessel; PN's Strategic Sealift Vessel | |
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| Topic Started: Feb 10 2006, 02:21 AM (71,421 Views) | |
| possible | Feb 10 2006, 02:21 AM Post #1 |
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at minimum, the Philippine Navy needs to perform missions of offshore patrol, transport of men and material, disaster relief, SAR, and coastal interdiction missions against terrorist groups. instead of acquiring separate platforms for each, wouldn't it be more efficient to get a few larger but more capable vessels to perform multiple missions? - as in, "capable" not in terms of weaponry, but rather versatility? the Philippine Navy currently uses its LSVs as helicopter platforms and patrol vessels. the trend of using re-activated WWII LSTs for the same purpose was common in Vietnam: http://www.navsource.org/archives/10/160786.htm ASW helicopters have operated from Singapore's ENDURANCE-class LST/LHDs deployed in the Persian Gulf, the same ships also serving as platforms for Cougar transport helos during the tsunami relief effort; these ships also deploy smaller landing vessels and assault boats in addition to their main role of delivering Marines and vehicles directly onto a beach; using its 76mm dual-purpose gun, the ENDURANCE-class can support ground forces up to a distance of 16kms. another vessel capable of meeting similar roles is New Zealand's Multi-Role Vessel, a part of the innovative Project Protector: ![]() http://www.defencemodels.com.au/Projects/MRV.asp
the civilian version: ![]()
though not a true military LST, the MRV is nevertheless a modern, efficient and relatively affordable transport, offering a secondary EEZ patrol capability when not burdened with the weight of heavy cargo. interestingly, the New Zealand vessel was acquired from the same Australian company which made the Philippine Coast Guard's FOSARV search-and-rescue vessels. |
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War. What is it good for?--James Brown What's love got to do with it?--Tina Turner Only the intelligent are brave. | |
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| israeli | Feb 10 2006, 02:55 AM Post #2 |
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^ taking off from your suggestion of having multi-role vessels to perform a variety of duties such as amphibious transport and offshore patrol, perhaps another vessel that is worth considering is the MEKO 200 MRV (sorry. the file is in PDF format). this what Blohm and Voss is saying about this versatile ship:
from the PDF brochure, here are just some of the missions that the MEKO 200 MRV can do:
CGIs of the MEKO 200 MRV: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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| "I'm very determined. If I decide what something is worth doing, then I'll put my heart and soul to it. The whole ground can be against me, but if I know it is right, I'll do it. That's the business of a leader." - Lee Kuan Yew | |
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| possible | Feb 10 2006, 03:22 AM Post #3 |
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if a more potent offensive capability is required: the ABSALON-class has been featured here before, but the Brits have come up with a similar concept:![]() http://www.hrvatski-vojnik.hr/hrvatski-voj...005/tehnika.asp the DML Group FC65 concept: 155mm land attack gun, active phased array radar, towed-array sonar, 32-cell VLS accomodating up to 128 surface-to-air missiles, additional 42 short-range SAMs in CIWS launchers, and two heavy ASW helos. plus a 500 square meter cargo deck under the helipad. top speed, 35 knots with all-electric propulsion. |
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War. What is it good for?--James Brown What's love got to do with it?--Tina Turner Only the intelligent are brave. | |
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| possible | Feb 10 2006, 03:38 AM Post #4 |
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old:![]() three BATRAL-class LSTs were built for France in the early '80s. would the PN be interested in acquiring these second-hand? new: ![]() the US-Australian HSV-series . no introduction necessary. a similar vessel would be either of the USN's LCS contenders. |
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War. What is it good for?--James Brown What's love got to do with it?--Tina Turner Only the intelligent are brave. | |
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| jammerjamesky | Feb 10 2006, 09:26 PM Post #5 |
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i think it is applicable also that the PN can lease the vessel of superferry or sulpicio lines and modify it to satisfy the MRV rule of the vessel.Actually the current Tonnage of this vessel has a higher capacity than of the MRV of New Zealand. Take for example the Super Ferry 19 or the Princess of the Star. |
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| israeli | Feb 10 2006, 11:14 PM Post #6 |
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comrade possible: correct me if i'm wrong but i think the French Champlain class is a purposely-built LST and not really a multi-role vessel if we are to follow the flow of our discussion here. ![]() regarding the status of the Champlain class LSTs, almost of them are still operating in far-flung French overseas outposts such as New Caledonia, French Polynesia and Martinique except for the flagship Champlain, which was retired in 2004 and used as a target ship during a sinking exercise. ![]() ---------- MRVs such as the Absalon class and the FC65 seem to be very powerful machines that can be comparable to some of the guided-missile frigates and corvettes that some of world's navies have nowadays. if only the Philippine Navy could just get some of those powerful ships given its meager and often stolen budget. ![]() ---------- let us study Project Protector of the Royal New Zealand Navy:
if we are to follow Project Protector, the Philippine Navy will not only need one MRV, two OPVs and four IPVs similar to that of the New Zealand plan but AT LEAST three MRVs, six OPVs and 12 IPVs due to the Philippines' vast territory and EEZ. also, the MRVs that the PN should get must have anti-surface warfare, anti-submarine warfare and air defense warfare capabilities, unlike the planned New Zealand MRV that has NO provisions for SSMs, SAMs and ASW torpedoes (such roles though are relegated to the two ANZAC class guided-missile frigates). |
| "I'm very determined. If I decide what something is worth doing, then I'll put my heart and soul to it. The whole ground can be against me, but if I know it is right, I'll do it. That's the business of a leader." - Lee Kuan Yew | |
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| possible | Feb 11 2006, 03:00 AM Post #7 |
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yes, you are indeed wrong. as I said before:
we are looking for vessels that can perform the missions listed, namely, offshore patrol, transport, disaster relief, SAR, and coastal counter-terrorist actions. being a helicopter-carrying LST, the BATRAL-class is inherently capable of the last four roles, and as you stated, the BATRAL-class routinely operate in distant French possessions so the capability for long-range patrols is also proven. so for the PN, the BATRAL-class would simply be a straight replacement for its ancient LSTs, which are also de facto MRVs the way the PN had been employing them.
that sounds reasonable. something like the BEN MY CHREE would probably be a US$40-50 million vessel today, on another thread I posted that an 80-90m OPV would be available for US$15-30 million, a 'Project Protector Philippine Edition' won't be an obscenely expensive undertaking.
not necessarily. consider New Zealand's requirements:
the Kiwis distinguished between the Naval Combat and the Naval Patrol missions; thus platforms intended for patrol and surveillance like an MRV (or OPV) need not be armed to the teeth, as would a dedicated combatant like a frigate. less complexity=$aving$ in terms of maintenance and training. besides, the point of the "mother ship concept" is that an MRV would be able to deploy smaller platforms: a helicopter like Super Lynx or Seahawk can be equipped with the relevant sensors and weapons - dipping sonar, 360-degree radar, antiship missiles and torpedoes - and can operate hundreds of miles distant from its mother ship, lessening the latter's exposure to the risk of attack. thus a helicopter-equipped MRV like the one employed in Project Protector
can still have a useful war role even though it lacks its own missiles and specialized sensors. |
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War. What is it good for?--James Brown What's love got to do with it?--Tina Turner Only the intelligent are brave. | |
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| spiderweb6969 | Feb 12 2006, 10:52 PM Post #8 |
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Return of the Gators? US Navy Stands Up New Coastal Warfare Squadron Posted 09-Feb-2006 11:40 Related stories: Americas - USA, Asia - Other, Coastal & Littoral, Expeditionary Warfare, Force Structure, Industry & Trends, Middle East - Israel, Middle East - Other, Other Corporation, Policy - Doctrine, Power Projection, Remote Weapons Systems, Surface Ships - Combat EagleSpeak Blog, run by a former Captain, USNR (ret.), notes the recent "stand-up" of Naval Coastal Warfare Squadron Five (NCWRON-5) near San Diego recently. Once at full strength, 325 sailors will go to war in a fleet of speedy 34-foot, SeaARK Marine aluminum-hull boats (likely Dauntless Class) equipped with .50-caliber and 7.62mm machine guns and 40mm grenade launchers. The boats cost $500,000, and can be loaded quickly aboard Air Force C-17 transport jets for quick transport to trouble spots. SeaARK boats of these types are also in use by civilian agencies like the NYC Police and National Park Police. Is this part of a trend? It most certainly is... The San Diego Union-Tribune notes that Navy officials quietly started organizing the squadron in September 2004 around the lightly-used Naval Outlying Landing Field in Imperial Beach, near the Tijuana River. This was about the same time that US Maritime Force Protection Command (MARFPCOM) was stood up, with the mission of the consolidating the expeditionary units the Navy deploys overseas to protect ships, aircraft and bases from terrorist attack. In April 2005, MARFPCOM's sailors, patrol boats, underwater explosive ordnance disposal groups; Mobile Diving and Salvage Units (MDSU); the Naval Expeditionary Logistics Support Force (NAVELSF); and Naval Construction Forces Command (NCFC, aka the "Seabees") were reorganized under a new Echelon III type command: the Naval Expeditionary Combat Command (NECC) which oversees NCWRON-5. As NECC Commander Rear Adm. Donald Bullard told the San Diego Union-Tribune, "We've had to expand to this battle space, because that's where the terrorists are... We need to interdict. We need to go find, fix and kill." Given that mission, which will certainly involve relatively close-quarters firefights, protection such as gun shields does appear to be rather sparse. Likewise, such ships will need the kind of high-accuracy firepower overmatch that could easily sink a hostile craft like the bomb-laden suicide attackers of the USS Cole. Other countries with similar missions and problems are taking somewhat different approaches the to firepower/protection aspect going forward. Singapore is beginning to use Spartan Unmanned Surface vessels, which will soon be armed with stabilized remote weapon mounts that may even sport Hellfire or Javelin anti-armor missiles. Israel uses larger patrol craft like its 25-meter Super Dvoras, armed with the versaile Typhoon stabilized naval remote-control weapons system for accurate firepower overmatch. Typhoon comes in different sizes, and can be fitted with machine guns, autocannon (most common), and even anti-armor or air defense missiles. The San Diego Union-Tribune report also notes that Chief Petty Officer Napoleon Bryant handpicked each of the sailors, "looking for those with the physical and mental toughness to stand up to long patrols in small boats on rough seas." Future squadrons under NECC may benefit from the advent of fast M-Hull ships, which address that physical problem directly by significantly reducing the pounding small boat crews receive. The MS40 patrol craft is based on the same technologies used in the SEALs' 88-foot Stiletto stealth ship. Moving to the big picture, Naval Coastal Warfare Squadron Five will be part of the US Navy's renewed attention to creating a "brown water," or riverine force. This has been done before; perhaps the best-known instance in modern times was the Vietnam War's "Swift Boats" and "gator navy". Yet sites like River Vets remind us that even the Swift Boats were just one component of the Navy's total riverine force, which included up-gunned and up-armored "Monitors" and even LSTs (Landing Ship, Tank) from World War 2 and Korea. As the USS Sohnomish County [LST 1126] site explains, many were recommissioned and used extensively in the Vietnam War, delivering men and equipment up-river, patrolling, and acting as "Mother ships" for Swift boats, small patrol boats, helicopters and their troops. "These Mother Ship LSTs provided a nesting area for the small crafts to replenish their ammunition, take on fuel, and needed supplies, make repairs, and perform maintenance while alongside the LST." LSTs continue to serve in this role in modern times. Singapore is sending a Singaporean LST [RSS Endeavour] to patrol Iraq's coast, where a number of NECC's sailors are already stationed. As the MINDEF release notes, "During its deployment, RSS Endeavour will provide logistics support for coalition vessels and helicopters, conduct patrols and boarding operations, and protect the waters around key oil terminals." ![]() 060201-N-4021H-097 San Diego (Feb. 01, 2006) - Members of the Naval Coastal Warfare Squadron Five (NCWRON-5) stand in formation in front of SeaARK patrol boats during their commissioning ceremony at Naval Outlying Landing Field in Imperial Beach. NCWRON-5 will give the Navy an improved in-shore warfighting element and assist in maritime security missions. U.S. Navy photo by Photographer’s Mate Airman Damien Horvath (RELEASED) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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| GKB02 | Feb 13 2006, 12:37 AM Post #9 |
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Italy's new carrier with cargo and trnsport capability.. CAVOUR AIRCRAFT CARRIER, ITALY On 22 November 2000, a contract was drawn up between Fincantieri and the Italian Ministry of Naval Defence to supply an aircraft carrier vessel, known as the Nuova Unita Maggiore (NUM) or "New Major Vessel", to the Italian Navy. Building work on the new vessel, which was originally to be called the Andrea Doria but has since been named the Cavour, began at Fincantieri's shipyards in Riva Trigoso and Muggiano in July 2001. The Cavour was launched in July 2004 and the aircraft carrier will be delivered in 2007, entering service in 2008. CAVOUR AIRCRAFT CARRIER DESIGN The ship has a standard displacement at full load of 27,100t, an overall length of 244m and a sustained speed of 27 knots. It can accommodate up to 1,210 people on board, including ship's crew of 451, 203 aircrew, an amphibious command force of 140, and San Marco Battalion of 325, plus an extra 91 troops if required. A strong feature of the ship is its high flexibility in operational terms. It is able to carry out the functions of an aircraft carrier as well as the transport of wheeled and tracked vehicles, for both military and civil missions. The aircraft hangar can accommodate 100 light vehicles or 24 main battle tanks for amphibious missions. The ship can also support four LCVP landing craft. AIRCRAFT CARRIER FUNCTION The vessel is equipped with a flight deck suitable both for operations with helicopters and with short launch, vertical take-off fighter planes. It has a hangar/garage of approximately 2,500m² which can also accommodate wheeled and tracked land vehicles. The ship can support eight VTOL (vertical take-off and landing) aircraft such as AV-8B Harrier or F-35 joint strike fighter VTOL variant, or 12 helicopters, such as the EH101, NH 90 or SH-3D, or a mix of platforms. Landing operations will be supported by the Telephonics AN/SPN-41A radio frequency all-weather instrument approach landing system and the Galileo Avionica SPN-720 advanced precision approach radar. For the purposes of moving aircraft and vehicles embarked, two elevators are installed for aircraft and there will be two access ramps to move vehicles from the quayside to the hangar / garage. Further features of the ship include a hospital facility with three operating rooms, wards for hospitalised patients, X ray and CT equipment, a dentist's surgery and a laboratory. CAVOUR AIRCRAFT CARRIER WEAPONS The carrier is armed with two Sylver eight-cell vertical launch systems for the Eurosam (jointly owned by MBDA and Thales) SAAM/IT missile system, which fires Aster 15 missiles. The Aster 15 missile has a 13kg warhead and a range of 30km. The missile's guidance is inertial with data uplink and active radar terminal homing. For increased manoeuvrability in the terminal phase, the missile uses a 'PIF-PAF' direct thrust control system with gas jets. Primary sensor for the SAAM/IT is the Selex Sistemi Integrati (formerly Alenia Marconi Systems) Empar G-band multi-function phased array radar, which provides simultaneous surveillance, tracking and weapons control. The first ship-launched missile firing of the SAAM/IT system took place in December 2002. The vessel will be equipped with two Oto Melara 76mm Super Rapid guns and three 25mm anti-aircraft guns. CAVOUR AIRCRAFT CARRIER COMBAT SYSTEMS Selex Sistemi Integrati (formerly AMS) is the integrator for the vessel's combat system and also supplies systems including RAN 40L 3D D-band long-range radar, RASS surveillance radar, IFF and navigation system. Other members of the combat system team include Elettronica, Selex Sensors & Airborne Systems (formerly Galileo Avionica) and Oto Melara. Other systems include mine avoidance sonar and anti-torpedo towed array sonar, electronic support system (ESM), two radar / electro-optic fire control systems and an infrared surveillance system. CAVOUR AIRCRAFT CARRIER PROPULSION SYSTEMS The Cavour is powered by combined gas turbine and gas (COGAG) propulsion. The four LM2500 gas turbines, developing 22,000kW each, are manufactured by FiatAvio of Turin under a license agreement from the US company, General Electric (GE). The four turbines drive two gear units which provide 60,000shp each. Auxiliary power is provided by six Wartsila CW 12V200 generating sets, rated at 2,200kW each. Two shaft generators are rated at 2,200kW each. The vessel is fitted with two pairs of active stabilising fins and twin rudders and has bow and stern thrusters. ![]() ![]() ![]() http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/num/ |
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| israeli | Feb 13 2006, 11:28 PM Post #10 |
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again, comrade possible, you saved the day. thank you so much for the clarifications. ![]() this is my idea of the Philippine version of New Zealand's "Project Protector": * three MEKO 200 MRV multi-role vessels * six MEKO 100 OPV offshore patrol vessels * for inshore patrol duties, 12 Patrol Killer Medium class patrol boats one "group" will be composed of one MRV, two OPVs and four IPVs. each "group" is tasked to perform patrol duties in a certain part of the Philippines, e.g. Palawan and South China Sea; Northern Philippines between Batanes and Taiwan; Pacific coast from Cagayan to Surigao. however, it will not be enough that the Philippine Navy will solely depend on those MRVs, OPVs and IPVs. there will be a need for the PN to purchase combat ships such as four guided-missile frigates or six guided-missile corvettes. again, i am hoping for your clarification(s) if ever there is (are) mistakes in my post. thanks again!
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| "I'm very determined. If I decide what something is worth doing, then I'll put my heart and soul to it. The whole ground can be against me, but if I know it is right, I'll do it. That's the business of a leader." - Lee Kuan Yew | |
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