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| The Ideal Multi-Role Fighter for the PAF; Wishlist | |
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| Topic Started: Oct 3 2005, 07:06 PM (233,550 Views) | |
| Tora^2 | Oct 3 2005, 07:06 PM Post #1 |
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In the Army threads of this forum, they have designed rifles and armored vehicles for the Defenders of our Land. The "Taxi Drivers and Bomb Delivery Boys" of the Defenders of our Land (AKA the PAF), meanwhile, need a fighter jet to replace the newly-retired F5A Freedom Fighter. Unfortunately there are hardly any other aircraft available to take the niche of the simple and easy to fly F5. Here's the challenge. Design a new low-cost multi-role fighter for the PAF that will meet its Internal and External Defense requirements with the following Specs: 1. Relatively low operating costs. Can be maintained by crews with minimal training and with minimal technical support from manufacturer 2. Can execute reconaissance, air defense and ground attack missions effectively 3. Can engage aerial targets beyond visual range and in close-in aerial combat 4. Has overall performance equivalent to F5Es and F20 Tigersharks at the very least. 5. Has an operating radius that allows it to fly on sorties to any point in the Philippines EEZ from Basa AB without aerial refuelling. 6. Can take-off and land from stretches of highway if necessary. 7. Can operate in both fair an foul weather conditions as well as at night. 8. Highly fuel-efficient even while maneuvering in air combat |
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| junior | Oct 3 2005, 07:59 PM Post #2 |
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as far as 1,2,3,4,6,7, and 8 I lean towards the Grippen. Hopefully range issue can be alleviated by stationing aircraft in Palawan or developing air to air refuelling capability. just my 50 cents |
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| Chowking | Oct 3 2005, 08:12 PM Post #3 |
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well better to get TOT of F7 MG or make the F7 MF or buy a lot of FC1 it will cost a lot when you have to make a ac of you own there are a lot of ac you can get TOT for, trainers or fighters no need for making a new ones |
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| cyklonmetal | Oct 3 2005, 11:28 PM Post #4 |
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I think it was in Asian Aerospace mag, around 1994/95. Northrop had offered India (then building the LCA) complete plans, toolings and jigs for the licensed production of the F20. i'll post a scan of it on this thread once i find it. As for #5, it kind of limits us to heavy fighters, complicated and expensive. AFAIK, even the F8 was near its range limits when launching CAP from Basa. Im not sure the F5 could do it even with three tanks. Here's a supposedly actual timeline of an F20 doing 12 sorties in a day. http://members.aon.at/mwade/f20time.gif |
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| Judd | Oct 4 2005, 01:11 AM Post #5 |
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F-5 IIIs would be nice. low-cost, easy to maintain, and our air force know more about the F-5 as the army to the M-16. now that our F-5s has just been retired... now i know why the subtitle of the philippine air force forum is 'flyboys of the blue philippine skies.' the marines are fearless, the navy are the guardians of the 7,100 islands, and the air force are just flyboys... wehehehehehehehe.... 
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| Your mission is to kill me... But my mission is to kill you first... and I'm good. | |
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| Tora^2 | Oct 4 2005, 02:18 AM Post #6 |
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Yup they're fly boys. Though as I pointed out, they're role was downgraded to merely playing a supporting role to the Army and Marines in COIN operations. They bring troops to and from the battlefront with their Hueys. They airlfit supplies and additional personnel on their C130 and F27s. They also provide CAS with their MG520s, OV10s and SF260s. I understand that even if the US didn't badger us with their "War on Terror" rhetoric, COIN would still be the AFP's bread and butter. At the spearhead would be the Marines and the Army since they're the ones who go head to head with the enemy. They need all the help they can get to defeat them and come home alive and sane. That is not as easy as playing Battlefield 2 or Full Spectrum Warrior (there are no cheat codes in real life combat). Furthermore I know that this sort of war costs a lot to fight per day. Aside from bullets, our APCs and trucks need gas as do Hueys and OV10s. You also need to feed the troops out on the field and let's not forget their combat pay. You also need money for medicines to help patch up the wounded and funerary expenses for the KIAed. I also understand that maintaining assests for use in external defense also costs a bundle. For this game, you a lot more machinery than fighting insurgents since it would be fought first in the air and on sea. Both ships and planes need lots of fuel to keep them running. You also need spare parts to keep them running. If ever we need to open fire at intruders, we will need shells, bombs and guided missiles. Furthermore we would also need to update our systems regularly to be on par with potential threats. We also need to extensively train crews to prepare for the worst case. However, what I do not understand why do we have to ditch our external defense capabilities to focus on our COIN operations? The JDA claims that we have no urgent external threat. But is being left unguarded an invitation to more external threats? Besides, a decently managed, trained and equipped AFP is the ultimate deterrent against imported terrorists. If we couldn't fight them off, then they can easily set up shop in our backyard to add to our current insurgency problems. |
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| Tora^2 | Oct 4 2005, 02:38 AM Post #7 |
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If you guys think #5 is next to impossible given the range restrictions on lightweight fighters, here's how to get around it. Aside from midair refuelling (in our case it could be by C130 or buddy-buddy using probably an AS211), we can also use conformal tanks. The Typhoon IIs use them as do F15C/D/Es and even F16 C/D Block 60s. These tanks free up slots for weapons and have a negligible effect on its speed and maneuverability while increasing their range. |
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| cyklonmetal | Oct 4 2005, 03:57 AM Post #8 |
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another option would be to simply stretch the fuselage. the F20 was a bit shorter than the F5E, while the F5F was around three feet longer than the E. i think it's safe to assume you can stretch the F20 in the area after the cockpit and before the engine. this is where the main fuel cell is in the F5/20. you stretch that, you increase space for fuel. it's already aerodynamically proven with the F5F so it's fair to assume that this would be the same for the F20. |
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| 21Scorpio | Oct 4 2005, 09:46 AM Post #9 |
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Good suggestions... but for me maybe the best for us since we have no cash for JAS 39 maybe its better if we purchase surplus F-5E's and subject it to upgrades similar to what the Taiwanese are doing making their F-5E's compatible with their FC-1 figthers. And the upgrades should be done here so that tech transfer will be absorbed by our PAF Engineers and thereby making it more econimical in the long run. Taiwanese F-5E tiger 1V is a new fighter that can provide to handle SU-27 and Chinese F-7MG and F-8H... its firepower is very much improved and its manueverability was even more enhanced. |
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| flipzi | Oct 4 2005, 10:10 AM Post #10 |
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Guys, We've already retired the F5s. Let it be. LET'S PREPARE FOR TOMMOROW. Aim for what is really fitting for tomorrow's environment. GET THE GRIPEN. It's the best buy. It's the best option considering tomorrow's environment. Consider this. :thumb: Saab JAS39 Gripen Check this thread also. http://pdff.sytes.net/index.php?showtopic=749&st=0    MINSAN KAYA DI TAYO NAGIGING MODERNO KASI SA MENTALITY NATIN NA OKAY NA ANG PWEDE NA. LET'S CHANGE OUR MINDSET! :thumb: "50 year-old technology" - F5 Freedom Fighters had done their part in our history. Let's set our future right! |
 " Sovereignty resides in the people and all government authority emanates from them! - Art. II Sec 1, Philippine Constitution " " People don't care what we know until they know we care. " getflipzi@yahoo.com | |
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